[A] The Tale of the Suppressed - Old serverlore, and for the interest of Dark RP'ers

Drustai wrote:Drustai using Vaell as a human shield was fun.
Especially since people decided to just throw a chair at him anyway.

I laughed.. so.. so.. hard. Lovely delivery. Yes, there's always that chance.
As for escapes for both sides, yes that would be an interesting topic. I'll take some time to think about it before I post my thoughts.

The Riders of Karazhan weren't any sort of guild or playerbase, they were essentially the guys that were involved in the Duskwood quest chain dealing with the Scythe of Elune.

The Dark Sphere was basing its lore upon theories surrounding the identities of said dark riders, which we believed were the Death Knights from Warcraft 2 lead by Teron Gorefiend (which there was ample of lore sources suggesting this). Though when TBC came out and Teron Gorefiend was found in Outland, this was a bit iffy. Exactly what happened with the backstory I don't exactly recall if we kept to the story with the timeline making that a possibility or if we revamped parts of it, but eitherway, they were lore figures explaining the origin of the Dark Sphere as its creators and the Dark Sphere (guild) being their disciples serving in the name of power.

As for motivation, Dark Sphere was always about power, the Machiavellian games and the classic evil, and less about justifying the freedom of Shadow. Hand of Nightmares was the guild which tried "liberating" the Shadow and actively seeing the Church of Light as its counterpart and nemesis. That said, it makes sense from both the Machiavellian angle or the delusional angle to write a "letter" such as this to either put pressure on the other part or in self justification.

Beladon wrote:
The good old "Take a Hostage" usually works well on us Lighties. Our weakness is often our sense of duty and honor, abuse it and watch us squirm

Haha, noted, thank you! xD

I've seen it NOT work horribly (when a lawful guild knew their person wouldn't get executed oocly so they ignored it--apologies were made on both sides but it does happen), and I've seen it work fantastically--as the basis for a long DM'd event for the Lighties to rescue their fella. I never thought of it as a way to offer them an out, but I like it! *takes notes*

Also, thanks for clarifying the backstory/lore, Zaraj, I wasn't sure on it myself. THE MORE YOU KNOW!

Zaraj wrote:As for motivation, Dark Sphere was always about power, the Machiavellian games and the classic evil, and less about justifying the freedom of Shadow.

What! How dare you, miserable Blackblade, throw such accusations around! The wellbeing and prosperity of others has always been my primary concern.

Yes of course... After all, you were known as "Andrek the loving"

Rohim wrote:Yes of course... After all, you were known as "Andrek the loving"

I'm glad someone remembers.

As for Thalos question about what a Shadow-Worshiper is..

Its a person that has developed most of his life in the service of shadow, he believes that the Shadow is much like the Light, that it is divine and that he serves it, not the other way around.
With other words, imagine a Priest of the light.. Just that he serves the Shadow instead of the Light.

At least that is how I look at it, probably a lot of other opinions out there.

I personally believe evil characters in the style of the anti-hero, might have better life expectancies if they're extremists on the Good side. Basicly, the dude that Alliance/Horde questgivers would still send out with his squad, but would expect some collateral damage/civilian casaulties from. The guys the questgivers would send out, knowing that they're profiting from the war by looting homes, smuggling etc, but still need out there.

These characters are essentially, not evil, though. They're the stuff that make good rivals for the paladin orders, but don't make legitimate zerg-targets, even if individual members of the teams of heroes/anti-heroes might come to blows over conflicting decisions with lives on the stake etc.

What I'm saying is: Perhaps we should focus on RPing antagonists, not villains, if IC conflict, big decisions, character growth is what we're after. The Cult of Kidnapping and Decapitating Virgins-style guilds tend to get zerged, and it tends to be necessary.

Edit:
Perhaps the matter is the scale of the evil-doing? Just some reflections on the matter, though.

Well you know what they say: if you have to go constantly say you're evil in order to convince people you're evil, then you're probably not very evil; if you have to constantly say you're good in order to convince people you're good, then you're probably not very good.

Ultimately, actions speak louder than words and fancy costumes. I have seen many characters who dress up in robes adorned with skulls who summon demons and sling shadow spells but are otherwise very nice people who wouldn't hurt a fly without a good reason to do so; likewise, I've seen crazy zealous the-end-justifies-the-means paladins who would burn an orphanage to the ground if they recieved an anonymous tip that there might be an imp hiding somewhere under the bed.

Leave the judgement of whether something or someone is evil up to your peers. Whether my current character - the anxious, spiteful little Lich - is to be considered evil or just pathetic and crazy, will be something my peers decide. You can roll a Death Knight dressed in black armor called 'Lord Killington the Vilemaker,' and stand around Cathedral Square looking ominous all day, but until you actually start doing evil things, like torturing people, slaughtering innocents etc, nobody is going to particularily care.

So, I suppose, more to the point:

I will agree with you that it might not be the best idea to try and role-play a villain per se; but neither do I think that it's a very good idea to purposefully try to be somebody's antagonist. My ideal is for conflicts between characters and guilds to arise naturally due to differences in strong ideologies and perhaps some pettiness and malice in individuals. A healthy mix of spite and opposing ideologies will go a long way where conflict is concerned. Though they have long since departed to another server, the Holy Chapter of Anethion always excelled in antagonising the hell out of everyone, precisely because they had an absurdly extreme ideology that didn't allow them to get along with anyone. Did that makes them evil? Perhaps. If you consider inflexible fundamentalism - combined with a ruthless the-end-justifies-the-means rationale - evil, then yes, they were definately evil. Did they see themselves and such? Hell no! They were just living according to their ideals.

So to cross-reply to the post in your other thread, I suppose I hope for the good of the Realm that people grow less scared to think in extremes. Play your zealots and play your cut-throat business men. Play your magehunters and play your posh nobles. Ultimately, it's the conflict between these two very different creatures that fuels role-play. Don't be afraid to add fuel to the conflict - if this means playing an irrational, stupid and spiteful character, don't shy away from that, too. I've recently experienced myself when playing a character that sows conflict and discord. Somebody whispered me: "Why are you being so unreasonable?!" I awnsered: "Because this character is unreasonable". Because that's what I think we need: more unreasonable and short-sighted characters. Who needs truly evil characters when you can get petty, lustful, greedy, anxious and paranoid scumbags who fate has accidently given the detonater to some bomb to?

I miss the Chapter for very much that reason.

And I've had fun in the Hand, where there's a sick mix of purely malicious jerks, "druid extremists" and really nice guys in evil hats.  It's great seeing peoples' reactions to them, too; we do just go about our business serving our ideology these days, and what happens happens.  I'd never really thought about everything Thelos says here but I suppose I've always sort of agreed and wish to say that. It's a cool way to look at it, imo.

On a sidenote one of the best things I've seen in RP were the consistent reactions to a certain very short-lived char who was essentially a super-sinister-looking necromancer in DK starter gear with a scythe, who would stand in dark Stormwind corners looking ominous.  When approached with suspicion he would turn out to be REALLY friendly and helpful and openly admit to being a shadow user in the King's army, and talk cheerfully about his pet rabbit.  The reactions were superb.  Nobody in a world used to black-and-white chars had any idea what to make of him (the obvious expectation was VILLAIN ENCOUNTER!), but I think everyone had a lot of fun with the interactions.

Preach it, brother!

well TDS is dead and tfft..clad I was there for it's end
HoN though I've seen a certin rouge around once or twice

Cerik Ironforge wrote:Take your time to go and read Fenuviels&Shagrath's stories here on DefiasRP, or even Mordazan's. It's all about that, and it's well written.

Your praise has warmed the crooked bones of an old hound.

And for that, you have my gratitude. Thank you.


Ol' S.