The Temple of Elune

I could go into this, but from what I've read, there's just no convincing you otherwise. I loathe the "martyrdom" of DK RPers that feel so neglected and that their feelings must be respected OOC and IC to a point where we praise them for the heroes that they supposedly are where we bow before their presence and that's all I'm seeing here.

My honest opinion is that you should actually roleplay one. In all honesty, every roleplayer should roleplay one. So perhaps many misunderstandings would be settled.

Seeing as I don't believe to have shown any mis-understandings of Death Knights, when it's not even Death Knights abilities/place/lore or whatever we're discussing. We're discussing Darnassus.

What matters is what has been said by the NGers. Come to Darnassus, expect hostility and more than likely to be shot. That's the be all, and end all, of this thread. ((And possibly have your body disposed of via waterfall so nobody knows why/how you disappeared))

You want to RP a different faction of Night Elves that opposes NG's decision? So be it, and fight with us ICly about it. Until such a time where another group of Nelves come along and dispute it with us, we're not going to change our "policy".

i just changed my druid back into a nelf, i think ill make him a dk activist and fight for the lichdorei's sufferage!!!!!!!!!

Raene wrote:
What matters is what has been said by the NGers. Come to Darnassus, expect hostility and more than likely to be shot. That's the be all, and end all, of this thread. ((And possibly have your body disposed of via waterfall so nobody knows why/how you disappeared))

You want to RP a different faction of Night Elves that opposes NG's decision? So be it, and fight with us ICly about it. Until such a time where another group of Nelves come along and dispute it with us, we're not going to change our "policy".

I actually find the entirity of that post completely and utterly laughable considering how you on one hand completely condemn what the Stormwind Council does with its advocation and enforcement of laws and then you pop the statement of "well we are the law" in Darnassus, and that anyone who is in the Night Elven community if they disagree with you has to fight you on it or join you.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

I didn't condemn the council. I condemned how people accept the council, then condemn us for doing the same.

Doesn't matter. Don't like it? Take it IC.

I only have one thing to say in this thread to DKs.

If you roll a Death Knight. Be prepared to be shunned, hated, and generally looked down upon.
Be prepared to have people escort you away from locations, or try to kill you for being there.
Be prepared to stand Roleplaying alone outside of cities.
Do not roll a Death Knight to stand outside the temple of elune or cathedral of stormwind just "to chat".

It's a bit like the warning/pointers warlocks and death knights who join the Orcs of the Red Blade get. "Expect to get disliked and generally distrusted if people know what you are (in case of DK's they do) until you show your worth".
Even longrunning guild locks are seen with sucpision. (In this case Morgeth who people looked at with crossed eyes even with her having been a high ranking officer and proved herself for the tribe several times).

DK's shouldn't expect happy funtimes when talking with non DKs. They should expect outright hate from Night Elves.

What Muzjhath said.

Shaelyssa wrote:i just changed my druid back into a nelf, i think ill make him a dk activist and fight for the lichdorei's sufferage!!!!!!!!!

Don't make me come back and stick you in a Barrow-den.

Celeste wrote:

Raene wrote:
What matters is what has been said by the NGers. Come to Darnassus, expect hostility and more than likely to be shot. That's the be all, and end all, of this thread. ((And possibly have your body disposed of via waterfall so nobody knows why/how you disappeared))

You want to RP a different faction of Night Elves that opposes NG's decision? So be it, and fight with us ICly about it. Until such a time where another group of Nelves come along and dispute it with us, we're not going to change our "policy".

I actually find the entirity of that post completely and utterly laughable considering how you on one hand completely condemn what the Stormwind Council does with its advocation and enforcement of laws and then you pop the statement of "well we are the law" in Darnassus, and that anyone who is in the Night Elven community if they disagree with you has to fight you on it or join you.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Why are you free to decide that DKs should be accepted in Darnassus, but Raene and the rest of NG isn't free to decide that their characters (whom make up the entire Darnassus RP Base, incidentally, because nobody but NG takes the time to RP nelves in nelf lands) dislike DKs and thus must adhere to some general understanding that DKs are cool people and nobody can RP someone who dislikes them?

Raene WELCOMES In Character opposition on this matter, according to his posts in here. If you're so outraged by their IC opposition of DKs, roll a bloody night elf and fight them on it ICly. You sure as hell can't whine on a forum that you think THAT offer is unfair and then expect them to just 180 their stance on it because of that.

NG doesn't like DKs. NG is the entire nelf community because all active nelf RPers happen to want to be in a guild and NG is the only stable one. The entire Nelf community thus dislikes DKs. If you want change, BE the change. Don't go around and DEMAND that they ease up to the DKs just because you OOCly feel it's unfair that you can't waltz around the Temple of Elune desecrating it with your unholy presence. Banning UNHOLY FIENDS who live through DARK MAGIC from entering one of the most sacred structures in the Nelf culture is PERFECTLY sensible, especially with corruptive those dark magic energies are known to be.

Raene wrote:I didn't condemn the council. I condemned how people accept the council, then condemn us for doing the same.
Doesn't matter. Don't like it? Take it IC.

Again, I condemn both(and all three of them, actually, including the Senate). But I prefer taking things IC, considering that in any case I have no choice in the matter, aside perhaps leaving the server.

Raene wrote:I could go into this, but from what I've read, there's just no convincing you otherwise. I loathe the "martyrdom" of DK RPers that feel so neglected and that their feelings must be respected OOC and IC to a point where we praise them for the heroes that they supposedly are where we bow before their presence and that's all I'm seeing here.

Give me a single line where I said that night elves should bow at the death knights. I just said, and it is true by lore, we like it or not, that the Knights of the Ebon Blade have by default participated in the attack at Icecrown Citadel, in a way or another. It's up to you how your char reacts to this, but not acknowledging lore facts it's not a feasible choice.

@ Muzjhath
I agree to a certain degree. I've also stated many times in this thread I have no issue, but in the contrary I'm happy, when seeing mistrust and right away hatred towards my dk(or warlock). But there are things to keep in mind and count: both 'classes' have proved their worth in the battlefield for years by now, Dks to the point of helping defeating the Lich King, and a warlock being among those who killed Deathwing, by lore, and that the Alliance as a whole(of which Varian has, in the end, veto or allowing power over the people allowed in it) uses them.
It's the same point I raised when the Council started prosecuting Dks (more) harshly: the narrow mindedness and the bigotry can go only until a certain point, without creating a disjunction with the lore and, I dare say, the common sense. We're keeping to forget that Defias rp, and wow rp in general, is not enclosed in our little cozy community here on Defiasrp. The game shows us every day that death knights(or warlocks) can be the heroes, and fight alongside them. Showing -only- hatred creates a strong disjunction with everything the game shows you on a daily basis.

Two examples of how things in my opinion were played greatly, allowing both sides be' right'.

Calisar: She has shown a very tough hatred towards my death knight, to the point of even suggesting him to suicide, and offering him help in doing so. Despite such, there's respect between them, enough to allow them to fight together the common enemy.

Tachal: Just yesterday he was asked to be lead by a death knight on a mission. He wasn't happy, he even called her names, but in the end he got in: wasn't forced, because it was on a volunteering basis. On a OOC level, he could've had other rp otherwise anyway.

Did they bow? No. They even treated them as heroes? Neither. They showed spite and mistrust, but they never crossed the line of making that mistrust and spite get over the lines of contradicting what the game itself shows and in the end, allows.

Well Dec. The thing I argued was the "temple of Elune"
To use a RL example.
The chinese state(states) -knew- that the step warriors north of them (Mongols, Kurakitai, Tartars, etc). Were far better warriors than they were. They used them against each other, and at times even as mercs in their own wars.

Yet, they -never- let them into their own lands.

I'd say Death Knights would be seen as the same way.

A weapon for war. And idealy you never let a weapon enter a church, you leave it by the door. (All old churches I know of RL have a "weapons chaimber" for where people who had weapons left them upon entering, oncluding royalty).

I could go into this, but from what I've read, there's just no convincing you otherwise. I loathe the "martyrdom" of DK RPers that feel so neglected and that their feelings must be respected OOC and IC to a point where we praise them for the heroes that they supposedly are where we bow before their presence and that's all I'm seeing here.

Not one of us were hinting at or expecting that, no. You're reading too far into it now. I'm all for IC hatred from the nelves epsecially, it's fun RP. The whole being a death knight and the whole being outcasted and neglected. I highly welcome it.The hostilities? Welcomed. The hatred? Welcomed, all the negatives? Welcomed. My own personal problem was the whole NG authority which seems to be talked about more now so I won't echo it. And to point out to a post previous of Shaelyssa, DK's only came around in wrath as you know and before wrath there were other major Nelf guilds such as the Nightseeker sentinals(Or was it nightguard or something, unsure) and I am not sure what their stance was on warlocks back then. Too long back to say.

Do not roll a Death Knight to stand outside the temple of elune or cathedral of stormwind just "to chat".

This is why I love the wild Tempest, they can give a death knight purpose to go out into the world and make a difference from an IC perspective instead of being city bound. More death knights wanting to fight for the alliance should join this order if you want to avoid city RP, it's really fun.

Lavian Dawson wrote:This is why I love the wild Tempest, they can give a death knight purpose to go out into the world and make a difference from an IC perspective instead of being city bound. More death knights wanting to fight for the alliance should join this order if you want to avoid city RP, it's really fun.

<3

Here's a little something that most death knights don't get.

You want acceptance? You RP for it.

Years ago, Drustai was escorted, sometimes under threat of force, out of Darnassus. Had her runeblade taken away and almost used to frame her for crimes. Interrogated and demeaned. But now? Over years of working and fighting alongside the elves, including Natures Grasp, Drustai proved herself to at least be tolerable. Never truly accepted, but given the benefit of the doubt. Drustai is allowed in Darnassus. Was allowed to attend the Circle of Darnassus meetings. She is even allowed in the Temple of Elune, as long as she keeps her visits short and often under watch.

Stop demanding acceptance OOC. You are not entitled to it. Instead, work for it IC. And don't expect to get it in a few weeks, or a few months. Years. Years of working alongside people, enduring their criticisms, submitting to their demands, and proving that you are not a disgraceful abomination like 99% of other DKs. You do that, and you'll get your acceptance. It is earned, not given. That is the outcast's road.


The actions of NPCs in lore does not give you the right to be accepted at the drop of a hat, particularly when the actions of 99% of players have ruined your class's reputation. If you want acceptance, you have to work for it.

Drustai wrote:Here's a little something that most death knights don't get.

You want acceptance? You RP for it.

^^^^^^

This. This is what makes Death Knight RP so bloody fun. You're former scourge(Unless someone did something else somehow) and acceptance won't be handed to you. However I find this a fun concept to strive for in whatever you want to be accepted in.In Lavian's case it's more acceptance of lending her sword to the alliance cause and striving to become a figure that can be looked up to in the military. It is what she strives for, it is her identity that makes it so and she has a long road ahead to strive towards it and the wild tempest helps with this path for her. Yet to do this will no doubt involve a lot of hatred to her from different parties and thats just what makes the effort all bloody brilliant.

TLDR: It's not being accepted which is the good part, it's overcomming the obstacles to try gaining that acceptance.

Dru went about it all wrong!  Respect isnt earned, it is taken!  Dru = Displeasing XD

Also will reply to a few other points

Muzjhath wrote:
Do not roll a Death Knight to stand outside the temple of elune or cathedral of stormwind just "to chat".

I want to strongly echo this point.

Death Knights are a highly defined class that restricts the path of your role-play much tighter than any other class, even more so than paladins, for example.

If you want to play a sociable character that can walk and talk around the city making friends and such, don't roll a death knight.

Tuomas/Decurius wrote:that the Knights of the Ebon Blade have by default participated in the attack at Icecrown Citadel, in a way or another. It's up to you how your char reacts to this, but not acknowledging lore facts it's not a feasible choice.

And I could not give a flying fuck.

I'm done with this Decurius, you've ignored all points I've brought forth, and that of my Guild Leader. Immediately you've pointed to why we should respect/adore you, and in truth, for a Night Elf who's known war for the past 10'000 years, I/Raene could not give a flying fuck that you helped undue the monster you once helped.

Have any further problems, both you, and Lavian, take it IC. This thread is so far done.

I have to admit, if you role a DK, accept prejudice, grudges, hate and rejection. personaly I thin Decurius Icly has a fetish for being in places he's not wanted.

The fact things happen lore does not change what happened before. As a stalwart defender of the light, I can assure no matter what, Beladon will NEVER accept a Death Knight. He might agree to work with them, but no matter what, they are an abomination of life.

Words do not change opinions, actions do, and sometimes even actions are not enough to change peoples minds. No matter what you do as a death knight, you are notably different, a reject, an outcast...Unwanted and most would be glad to never see nor speak to you again. But it's all RP and the fun of WoW

Answers in Red!  Cos Lexy is gonna skool ya!

Raene wrote:There is so much wrong in this thread... As a first point, any Death Knight wanting to willingly commune with Elune must remember that you're twice damned. To be undead is to slip out of tune with the world, to deny ones rightful place in the circle of life. But to do so willingly, in the search for power? There is no way faster to demonstrate your contempt for the wisdom of Elune. For those unfortunate to have it done against their will, then go kill yourselves or continue to spit in Elunes face.

No expert on Elune, but from what I know she is benevolent and peaceful, some describe her as maternal too.  A strong aspect of a mother figure in this sense is pardoning her childrens flaws and loving them any way.  No Mythical figure who identfies as a mother figure ever forsakes their children.

Further more I never understand this need to tell DKs to kill themselves.  Lighties do it too and it is really an odd thing, if you see Lights hope as a miracle then it is spitting in that powers face to then top yourself as it is too hard.  Light is about overcoming not giving in.  In Elune terms I might buy a Druid telling me to restore the ballance, I know nothing the moon goddess says that would make this sound reasonable.

False: Gilneans have warlocks and their trainer is right under the Howling Oak, and the Sentinels lead you to him. Not saying they like it, but it would have been way easy just to make him stay outside in Rut'Theran.

That has to be the most forced reasoning for Night Elves allowing Demons/Fel in their midst that I've ever heard. How stupid must Blizzard be to keep all the class trainers for Worgen together up until they get to Teldrassil and then suddenly decide "Oh, to make this much much harder on a certain class, we won't allow Worgen to buy their Warlock spells* until they get to Lor'danel. Just so it makes the Lore look fine". No, they're going to keep all the class trainers together, and they're not going to make the NPCs suddenly very bigotted against players who are newbs and don't know where their class trainer is, just to make it "lore friendly".

* - Remember that you had to buy your spells in Cata.

Dont know really, There is not enough lore to call this one either way, you could take the argument that if it is game play it is lore in which case this not in question.

QFT: if Malfurion himself, who is like 'The' druid, allows magic users and Highborne in Kalimdor territory and in Darnassus itself, I see very little reason to show so much bigotry from the higher ups in Elven society.

Malfurion has no say in Kaldorei politics. For someone who's read Wolfheart, you should know both Tyrande and Malfurion say this themselves.

Hang on a min, you cant proclaim the arguments Maiev makes as part of the culture and then say Furion has no say!  He is married to Tyrande and is a leader of a great part of the nation of Kaldorei, he totes has a lot of sway.

(Some say I should have been shot on sight, mis-communication happens)

Yeah, they'd usually tell you to leave, and then shoot you if you didn't. But that's just long standing server lore.

What is Darnassian for "secrets, naughty secrets".  I wont go into telling elves to RP but blind and foolish zeal is never something I think of when I think Nelf.

I have to agree on the stereotypes is becoming a bit far too... Much in this day and age of things developing.

... Since when? In Cataclysm a Night Elf commander only just embraced the power of Cannons! If you think the Night Elves are adaptive of the Humans systems/beliefs/ways of life then you are so far wrong.

Well... It is not easy to draw these dog year like arguments for Nelfs as some do imo, 5 years for a human is 5 years for an elf, there are prob great cognitive differences but you really can not argue from this pov in a nerd debate over lore.  If we look to the Nelfs sister race, the Quel/sin'Dorei you will see another isolationist race, less tollerant and wise and they work with forsaken fine.  Why do they do this is because they have something Kaldorei do which is the wisdom to know that Foolish pride will get them killed.  In the case of the Quel/sin'dorei it is lack of numbers and a weak possition, survival that inspires this in Kaldorei it is somewhat different.

In short they can not fight the Horde war machine alone.  For various reasons, an orc can be given an ax and made into a solid unit in months, for nelfs, how many years does it take?  Nelf warriors are far better than orcs but the orcs do not fight a war they like.  Orcs do not just rampage and get hunted, they take land and hold it, dig in, fight over a wider front.  Nelfs do what they do well, it is just what they do can not win the war vs orcs any more.  If Nelfs hold a base it suits the orcs, they will take that and turn it to a slaughter house, if the nelfs run awayy that is fine too, plenty of orc to win a war of attrition.  This is why the Nelfs are in the alliance, just as why the Sindorei are in the horde.  They know they need allies, in Kalimdor Elves can not hold the wood alone and they are not so stupid as to lose a war to win a point.

but they do not have the rule of thumb to stop people from entering alliance territory,

Also, since when? Alliance territory maybe, but that doesn't mean that the Night Elves surrendered all their liberties over to some giant blue banner, they're still their own faction, and they still control their own lands. If the Stormwind Council can declare Ebons banned (Which they have, numerous times), and demand certain things from all walks of RP then the leading and only authority on Night Elven RP can demand what happens in their own capital city. Most DK's seem to be under the presumption that the Night Elves bend over to the glory that is Wrynn and must succumb to all wishes of the Alliance, a stereotype that us in Natures Grasp vehemently oppose.

For humans it doesnt matter if there is a guild of zealots as the rest will equalise this.

How many times were your "kind" banned from Stormwind Lex?

Both of these points are related so lets talk shroud for a mo.  Firstly, I am kinda saddened that you took this personal but I do not mind, I get the impression you speak through ignorantce so let us look at the shroud ooc.  The Shroud never killed a single member of the alliance, at any time in its existance.  They got in a few fights, the worst you can accuse them of is kidnap of a suspected scarlet agent in SW, also we punched samian.  Now, this is all ooc, do not be angry if your guild is mentioned but it is important.  In my time on DB Blades for hire have murdered Dreth, a char who was going to report them to the guards as they were handling and selling a necromantic artifact.  In my time with SW regiment there was a corrupt group (pre samian).  I have seen freelancers kill a senitor, seen Braiden be braiden, I have seen the cartel rob and swindle scores of people.  All of these guilds have been more criminal than he shroud.  The Exile was not just and it will be changed in RP.  Una will get his justice for himself, my friends and Lex.  But Exile is the most stupid of all RP punishments it kills RP rather than makes it.  In the shrouds case it floated on a wave of ooc too that I am still pissed off about.  

Varian leads the Alliance, and clearly most Kaldorei and sure their higher ups have accepted that

You'd also be a fool to think that because Varian had different ideas in a combat situation, means that he has authority over what happens in Night Elf lands. With any luck, 5.4 will show that Tyrande, can stand on her own two feet.



Well thats good, however that is future lore.  Current lore shows that Varians "patience" seems to "hush Tyrande"  Tyrande is on side with king Chin as it stands.

To say that they would legally force you out, nope, considering all the hints(In-game and in novels) point at the other direction. (Something that, oddly, never happened to me, despite being  there quite blatantly both in Moonglade and Darnassus on my dk quite a few times. But Dec's a nice respectful puppy)

Wat. What hints? And just because we don't patrol Darnassus on a constant basis doesn't mean we accept your presence. Same with Lexy staying there for a "year". The minute we hear about it, typically, we move to respond.

NG knew XD  I have RPed there with plenty of your guild and with others.  Every bit of una RP since Geldargate has been in Darnassus.  You forced me to leave ic which is fine, It suited my char at the time but do not think your RP is more important than my own that you can just deal with this problem and fuck Una.

If there were more Night Elf guilds(or Nature's Grasp was way huger and differentiated, as in IC noticeably so) the issue wouldn't be so evident. Being though the rp in Darnassus almost completely tied to them though, it must be ensured thar or 1)They rp night elves in a way which doesn't create disconnections with the various understandings of the lore, or, 2)they play exclusively as for themselves and their chars, and not pretending to represent the night elves' society as a whole.

Alright, just stop. Because our Guild doesn't have any outliers that ICly agree with letting DK's in, we're not considered "reputable" or "fair" in your eyes, therefore we're not big enough and wide enough to be accepted by you? Pfft.

To point 1, what understandings? You keep pointing to them, but have yet to bring them forth. We'll RP how lore has told us to, and won't change that until new lore comes in to suggest otherwise.

2, and for the most part, we do, but when we're the only Night Elf guild on this server, we're quite often asked to represent the Night Elves society "as a whole". Same with the Three Hammers.

Difference with SW Council is it is not one guild and Human RP is not one guild

There was a thing called the Circle of Darnassus a while back, which acted as the Darnassus Council. Eventually, they amalgamated into Natures Grasp as it was just a bunch of Night Elves nodding and agreeing with each other all the time. Just because we come under one banner, doesn't mean we're all the same. Priestesses, Druids, Mages, and Sentinels all have their different ideas on where to take the Kaldorei, and those opinions are always being fiercely debated ICly.
[/quote]

And the same with TTH you get on with them or you gtfo.  At least NG are reasoned and do not let their genitals write their RP but at its core there is the same problem.  If SW council do not get on with your guild, big deal you can RP with freelancer or B4H or Cartel or any SW based guild.  Some will back the council, some will back you.  With a one guild nation, it is their way or the high way and you have to trust that guild to play fair.  Generally it is not a good system, you get a problem and the one guild nation can just blockade you, with SW council there are other avenues that can be explored to get around ic problems, with one nation guilds you have to wait for them to back down.

every night elf guild that has ever existed that i know of has never accepted death knights so why you guys keep mentioning NG is silly, this has nothing to do with ng.

Thank you.

I argue because I believe my point of view is right, I respect NG a lot as a guild and mean them no ill will at all, the notions the op proposes are not even about NG.  That said i Disagree with your support of them Raene and so I make counter argumennts.  NG are great, NG are not perfect, Raene is #wrong! (<3 so you dont get mad)

They might try to prevent it, scowl, call names, keep their eyes in angry stares on them, but they cannot truly prevent anyone from going in the Temple or do it of as lore-breaking

Is that not the same as decreeing? I think pulling my characters bow on someone and telling them to GTFO counts as a decree, in my honest opinion.

And my DK is Tyrandes Hand of undeath and high judge (He isnt but the following is true) It can cut both ways which is silly really, why not just not cut each other and both win. If anyone can claim power why should everyone not do so?

the trouble is that Nelfs have a warped sense of lore

'Scuse me? Light wielding DK not withstanding.

I have no worries here  Lex is a char who has so much craft and depth I will swing and bat away any such innuendo my friend.  I would RP with Lex, I would talk to me about RP as lex is one of the finest chars you can RP with in terms of the art of RP.  You name an age and I will tell you what lex did during that year, you discribe a situation and I can psychologiclly explain what action he would take at any stage of his char development and why.  Lex makes Zealot elves look like what they are.  Flat, meaningless, boring ego driven Ham.

In terms of the lore there is not really any justification of it.

... GAHHH! SO MUCH RAGE! WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THIS STUPID RIDICULOUS BULLSPIT! WHERE, OH WHERE DOES IT EVER SAY THAT NIGHT ELVES ACCEPT FEL, AND UNDEAD!? WHERE!

Goddess damnit! Eat a brick, the lot of you.

Stay with us, almost there

It is if the DK does not want to go

Fuck them, they're getting an arrow in the face. I'd like to see any "court" punish a Night Elf character for such.

I think you might be undermining you own point now.

The same goes for you hiding behind the imaginary laws that he would instantly protect any who were shunned from the temple.

Vaell I fucking love you.

And that's all I'm going to say on this anymore.

You want to come to Darnassus, that's fine. You want to believe you're accepted, and that Night Elves disregard their love for nature, the circle of life, their feelings on undead and blah blah blah to suit your RP, that's fine.

But you come across any of us from Natures Grasp, and I can almost guarantee you're getting an arrow in the throat, and there's not a thing anyone will do to stop us.

[/quote]

wow Bro, you make me really want to seek you out and RP with that last statement.  Srsly, concider that RP is a joint and shared activity, lore reasons aside no good RPer ever makes such an argument.  Rethink these last few statements, I fear in this case anger has told the truth of you and your RP.  It is bad yo to think like this as an RPer.



If ya smell.  What the Lex... is cookin'.

TL;DR so much in this thread.

Raene wrote:

Tuomas/Decurius wrote:that the Knights of the Ebon Blade have by default participated in the attack at Icecrown Citadel, in a way or another. It's up to you how your char reacts to this, but not acknowledging lore facts it's not a feasible choice.

And I could not give a flying fuck.

I'm done with this Decurius, you've ignored all points I've brought forth, and that of my Guild Leader. Immediately you've pointed to why we should respect/adore you, and in truth, for a Night Elf who's known war for the past 10'000 years, I/Raene could not give a flying fuck that you helped undue the monster you once helped.

Have any further problems, both you, and Lavian, take it IC. This thread is so far done.

Raene, please, re read my two last  posts: I said quite directly that Arkil is right, ad I even brought forth two examples(both of them NGs' rpers) of how the thing imho was handled very well. Again, I've never said you should 'adore' dks, and I actually stated, in practically all the posts in this thread ,that I'm fine and dandy with the exact opposite. Want me to make a huge post in which I quote every single time I pointed out that in this thread?

Beladon wrote:I have to admit, if you role a DK, accept prejudice, grudges, hate and rejection. personaly I thin Decurius Icly has a fetish for being in places he's not wanted.

That regards my own char. Yes, Decurius has some kind of self martyrizing issue, and a hugely contradictive relation with the Light and his own condition. The fact that I OOC accept prejudice, hate, rejection and all that doesn't mean that my char IC automatically does that as well.

Right, well, this is one of those times where I have little to say because it's already been said by others. Muz and Dru specifically, with Raene highlighting some very key points.

Just a few things to remember:

• The Undead wiped out almost half the Human population and a lot of the NElf population just 10 years or so ago. Always be aware that the DKs were a major asset to Northrend and it's in that respect that they're still tolerated. As Dru said, you have to earn trust as a DK because from a standpoint - most people won't like you!
  
• So to add on to that point, what does that mean for your RP? Well, until you build said trust, you can still walk around Stormwind etc but expect people provoking you, attacking you and shunning you. It adds to your RP; a DK must feel incredibly alone despite being in such a vulnerable position. They were forced to fight their own people, kill their own families and now the people they fought for don't trust them. Being shunned allows the building of stronger characters (though, most of you DKs aren't arguing against that)
  
  Main Point:
  
• The Temple of Elune is a holy sanctuary. We don't control the wardens of it but I'm sure they're very protective. It's the most important thing atop Teldrassil and it is, again, a holy place! Undead are unholy. They're everything the NElves dislike. They're walking reminders of the past - both through misuse of magic and what happened 10 years prior. Be sensible where you go, they probably wouldn't even like magi going in there - let alone undead.
  
  There is no lore that says they'd shun them but there isn't any lore that says they won't.
  

I have been enjoying the utter garbage that is thread, please carry on screaming past each other. (and that you're done before posting again xD )



(muzj, why do you even bother? )

(I like a lost cause? I don't play the game anymore so it's not like it really bothers me! Most RPers I've met in WoW are subpar "memememememe:ers" anyway.)

(Hey guys, thanks for stopping by!)