11 points towards being a better roleplayer
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Lexgrad
Iriel Silversong
Swan Emperor Arenfel
Gor'Thrak Frosthowl
Ixirar
siegmund
Norrian/Chezz
Muzjhath
Coppersocket
Grim
Paia/Jenit
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erwtenpeller
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Kittrina
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11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Kittrina Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:16 pm
So, I came across this article which although written from a PnP point of view rather than WoW, has a tonne of relevant points to it that are sorely needed in most online rp I've come-across. Points 5 & 6 are probably the least relavent because of the nature of WoW rp, but what do people think of the rest? Text below for the link-shy:
- Spoiler:
I have read a LOT of articles online about how to be a good Gamesmaster. It’s something that fascinates me. I get a really good buzz off a game gone well that’s hard to replicate without sex or drugs, and getting hold of those both often involves more effort than I’m willing to put in. I want to get better at running games; I strive towards it. It is a passion. I have read more books on Gamesmastery than I have on, say, the subject of my degree.
But it’s incredibly rare to find an article that teaches you how to play, and surely that’s more common? Surely for every GM there are, on average, four players? There’s this weird disconnect, that the responsibility to entertain lies squarely with the person behind the screen, and that the players just turn up and absorb it. And that’s bollocks, clearly.
So this is a thing I have written, because there is not enough of it online. It is a handful of tips on becoming a better player. I have absorbed and stolen it from a few sources, such as this thread that I started on Reddit and from my friends on Facebook, this video on Improv and Graham Walmsley’s book Playing Unsafe. Thanks to everyone for your wisdom.
A note: I am not perfect! Obviously. Looking at me face would tell you that. But I cannot pretend that I embody all of these things all at once all the time; they’re just advice, I guess, extrapolated from more than my fair share of time spent playing RPGs on both sides of the screen, and looking at players and seeing what I like and what I dislike. Hopefully you can get something useful out of it, if you play a lot of games.
ONE. Do stuff.
Job One for you as a player is to do stuff; you should be thinking, at all times – “What are my goals? And what can I do to achieve them?” You are the stars of a very personal universe, and you are not going to get anywhere by sitting on your arse and waiting for adventure to come and knock on your door.
Investigate stuff. Ask questions. Follow leads. No-one needs you to point out that this is an obvious plot thread while you do it. Mix up scenes, talk to people, get up in their grill. If you’re not playing the sort of character that would do such a thing, find something you can affect, and affect it.
If you keep finding yourself pushed to the back of scenes and twiddling your thumbs – why is such a boring character hanging around with the sort of people that Get Shit Done?
Be active, not passive. If you learn nothing else from this article, bloody learn this.
TWO. Realise that your character does not exist outside of the things you have said.
You can write as many pages of backstory as you like, mate, but they don’t factor in one bit to the game unless you show them happening. Are you a shrewd businessman? Cool. Do some business, shrewdly, in front of everyone else. Are you a hot jazz saxophonist? Play the saxophone. Are you a wild elf struggling through social interactions with civilised people? Struggle through those interactions! Don’t go off and sit in a tree, you prick!
This ties back into the first point, really; you only exist through your actions. It is not the responsibility of other players to read your backstory, and their characters cannot read minds. Well. Some of them can, but you know what I mean. They shouldn’t have to.
So display your talents, your traits, your weaknesses, your connections. Take every opportunity to show, and not tell, the other people at the table what your character is about.
THREE. Don’t try to stop things.
Negating another player’s actions is fairly useless play; it takes two possible story-changing elements and whacks them against each other so hard that neither of them works. For example, your fighter wants to punch some jerk, but your monk’s against it, so he grabs the fighter’s hand. In game terms, nothing’s happened. All you’ve done is waste time, and we don’t have infinite supplies of that.
Instead, go with the flow. Build. If the fighter wants to break someone’s nose, what happens after that? Does your monk rush to help the jerk up? To admonish the fighter? To apologise to the jerk’s friends, before shit really kicks off? To save the fighter in the big brawl that ensues, even though he was going against your will? Or to throw the biggest guy in the tavern right at him, to really teach him a lesson? Those are all examples of interesting stories. Stopping him from doing anything whatsoever isn’t.
Don’t negate, extrapolate. (See, that rhymes, so it’s easier to remember)
FOUR. Take full control of your character.
“My character wouldn’t do that” is a boring excuse, a massive NO to the game’s story on a fundamental level. It’s a point-blank refusal to participate.
Instead of being bound by pre-conceived notions of what your character would and would not do, embrace complications and do it, but try to work out why. Why is your Rogue doing this mission for the church? Does he have ulterior motives? Is it out of a sense of companionship with the rest of the party? Characters in uncomfortable situations are the meat and drink of drama.
(Do you remember that great story about that hobbit who told Gandalf to fuck off, and sat at home picking his hairy toes all day before his entire village was swallowed up by the armies of darkness? No. No you bloody don’t. So put on your backpack and get out there, Frodo)
If you keep finding yourself having to explain your actions, or not wanting to go along with group decisions because of your character’s motives… well, sweetheart, maybe your character’s motives are wrong. They’re not written in stone. The group’s the thing, not your snowflake character, and if they’re not working, drop them off at the next village and maybe try playing someone more open to new ideas. Maybe work with the group to build a character that fits in.
Your character is part of the story; this is not your character’s story.
FIVE. Don’t harm other players.
Oh ho, here’s a jolly thief that nicks stuff from the other party members! And their Sleight of Hand roll is so high that no-one will ever notice! Gosh, what a jape.
Fuck that guy. No-one likes that guy. (That guy generally plays Kender, and I am fully of the opinion that Kender should be promptly genocided out of all RPGs. I don’t think genocide is a crime if we’re talking about Kender.) If you steal from other players, you are exerting power over them in a really messy, underhanded sort of way. If they find out, what are they going to do? Are you going to force them to escalate? Is it fair if they kill you for it? Is that fun for them?
Similarly, attacking other players is awful, too. I’m okay with this where systems fully support and encourage this, of course – something like Paranoia or Dogs in the Vineyard – but, Christ guys, give it a rest. I am hard-pressed to think of a way where such a thing improves the game; if your group is fine with it, discuss it beforehand. But keep me out of it.
There are a whole load of things out there to steal from and beat up and kill that won’t get offended when you do it to them, so go bother them first.
SIX. Know the system, don’t be a dick about it.
If you know a system, you are easier to GM for, because you know your character’s limitations. You can calculate the rough odds of a particular action succeeding or failing, just like in real life. You can make prompt assessments of situations and act accordingly, because you understand the rules of the world.
(New players, of course, get a free pass on this one. But do make an effort to learn the rules, obviously, if you’re keen on sticking around in the hobby.)
But for the love of God, don’t rules-lawyer. Do not do that. It is not hard to work out, because here is a simple guide – if you are arguing over a rule for more than twenty seconds, you are a rules lawyer. You are the Health and Safety Inspector of roleplaying games, and you need to stop talking, because you are sucking the fun out of the game.
There are times when the rules are wrong, and that’s fine, but I’m hard-pressed to think of that time the guy remembered the rule and we all laughed and had a great time because he made the GM change it.
SEVEN. Give the game your attention. If you can’t give your full attention, step away from the table.
Hey! What’s that you’re playing, on your phone there? Oh, is it Candy Crush Saga? That’s funny, all these dice and character sheets gave me the impression that we were playing Dungeons and Fucking Dragons, I must be terribly mistaken.
It is hard to think of a way to be more dismissive of someone’s game than playing a different game during it. If you find yourself getting so bored by what’s going on you’re resorting to playing a game on your phone, or reading a book, or checking Facebook, then step away from the game. You are draining the group with your very presence. I would rather have an empty chair than someone who wasn’t paying attention, because I don’t have to entertain an empty chair.
And of course, it’s up to the GM to offer an entertaining game. This is not one-sided. But going back to point one, act whenever you can. Give them something to work with. Unless you’re paying them money to do this, they are under no obligation to dance like a monkey for you just because they’re behind the screen.
EIGHT. If you make someone uncomfortable, apologise and talk to them about it.
I have a rule in my games, and that rule is: “Nothing fucks anything else.” Simple. Clean. Elegant. No sexual conduct; it’s weird, often. I’ve had seduction attempts, obviously, and that’s fine. I’ve had characters deeply affected by rape. I’ve even had someone negotiate time with a skin-thief alien to reanimate a cat for the purposes of sexual pleasure as part of a heist. But, and this is the crucial thing here, nothing fucked anything else “onscreen.” And if you’re thinking, “Ha ha, okay then, but is fisting all right?” then fuck off out my game, sunshine.
And that’s the point; in situations like the ones we find ourselves in on a weekly basis, it’s easy to make people feel uncomfortable. Maybe it’s as blatant as discussing dead babies or bestiality; maybe it’s something much more benign, like being rude or chatting them up in-character.
If you think you might have upset someone, then ask ‘em, quietly. And if you have, apologise, and stop talking about that particular thing. It’s not rocket science; that’s how existing as a functioning social human being works, and somehow because we’re pretending to be a halfling for a bit, we often forget how to do it.
So, you know, be nice. Be extra nice. No-one’s going to think any less of you for it.
NINE. Be a Storyteller.
The World of Darkness books call their GM a Storyteller, because they are very obviously unable to call a spade a spade. But they have a point; a GM is telling stories. It’s easy to forget that the players are doing that too.
So put some effort in, eh? Say some words. Develop a character voice and stance. Describe your actions. Work out a level of agency with the GM so you can chip into wider descriptions, or just make assumptions and describe it and see if it sticks. A good GM should go with what you’re saying, anyway, unless it really goes against their plan.
Similarly, brevity = soul of wit, and all that. A good GM doesn’t monologue, or have their NPCs have long discussions, or make players sit back and watch while their world plays out. So know when to shut up, and to keep your descriptions short – unless you’re an incredible storyteller, of course. But short and punchy is always better than long and flowery.
TEN. Embrace failure.
Failure can be embarrassing. I know that I get pretty het up when the dice don’t favour me – when I’ve spent ages waiting to have my turn in a large game, say, or when I’m using some special power, or when I’ve been talking a big talk for a while or described some fancy action – and I use some pretty bad language, too. And not “fun” bad language, like we all do when we’re gaming. Like threatening “is this guy okay” bad.
And that’s not cool. I need to learn to treat failure as a story branch, not a block. Why did I miss? Why didn’t my intimidation roll work? Why didn’t I pick the lock? Why was I seen? Who worked out that I’m the traitor? What other options can I explore?
Some systems build this in by default – Apocalypse World, for example – and they give you the ability to someone affect the world whenever you roll the dice, not just fail to affect someone’s Hit Points. That’s great! We need to get ourselves into that mindset by default. We need to view failures as setbacks and explain why our character didn’t achieve their goal, and we need to understand that failure is not the end of the world.
ELEVEN. Play the game.
This is a game. This is not a challenge that exists solely in the head of your GM. This is not your character’s personal story arc. This is not your blog. This is not an excuse to chat up one of the other players. This is not a table to sit at in silence. This is a game.
We have signed up to play a game together. We are all telling a story with each other, to each other, and the story comes first. Step back from the heat of combat; step back from your character’s difficult relationship with their half-Drow mother; step back from the way that the Paladin’s player keeps stealing your dice.
This is a game. Respect the other players. Respect the story, and act in service of it. Respect that you will not always get your way, and that not getting your way can be interesting.
Do what is best for the game. Do what is best for the story. Be active! Be positive! Be interesting! Change things! If you can’t walk away at the end of the night with a good memory, with something that you could talk about in the pub in years to come, then everyone at the table has failed.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Drustai Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:30 pm
I like these points.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Thelos Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:07 pm
#1 is the most important for me.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by erwtenpeller Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Posting to remind myself to read this later.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Allonia_Miral Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:02 pm
Haha I like this one. Good points and funny too.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Raenmar Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:46 pm
FOUR. Take full control of your character.
I disagree with this. Changing your character just so you can go to an event or whatever doesn't necessarily make you a better RPer. For me an unnatural change to my character sort of ruins the RP.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Thrakha Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:27 pm
I would agree to an extend with most of these points.
However, many (particularly regarding PVP & control of one's character) are highly subjective.
This list perhaps needs a 'Rule 12: Get Over Yourself. You are not the supreme moral authority on roleplaying. You just have a set of subjective opinions. Discuss them, don't lay down the law.'
However, many (particularly regarding PVP & control of one's character) are highly subjective.
This list perhaps needs a 'Rule 12: Get Over Yourself. You are not the supreme moral authority on roleplaying. You just have a set of subjective opinions. Discuss them, don't lay down the law.'
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Kittrina Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:43 pm
To be fair as I said the guy's written it from a pen and paper point of view- I dunno how many people who rp on defias have also done tabletop, but the focus is different, the presence of a GM tends to mean player-versus-player is pretty rare, though conflicts can and do happen that's not what most tabletop roleplaying systems are geared towards (which some exceptions like he said).
I just found the whole thing fairly interesting, tabletop's so different but so similar to online in a lot of ways. But reading over the points, the majority of times I've gone 'eh, this isn't fun' is when people- myself included now and then- were ignoring these ideas or going directly against them.
The main things I took from it were the remarks about being more pro-active and actually committing to rp rather than logging on and standing about with your finger up your arse. And above all being more group and story-minded rather than self-focused.
I just found the whole thing fairly interesting, tabletop's so different but so similar to online in a lot of ways. But reading over the points, the majority of times I've gone 'eh, this isn't fun' is when people- myself included now and then- were ignoring these ideas or going directly against them.
The main things I took from it were the remarks about being more pro-active and actually committing to rp rather than logging on and standing about with your finger up your arse. And above all being more group and story-minded rather than self-focused.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Thrakha Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:56 pm
I've played pen & paper for somewhat over twenty years.
Many of that writer's points are subjective when it comes to pen & paper.
Many of that writer's points are subjective when it comes to pen & paper.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Exigua Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:01 pm
I agree partly with some of them. However I find most of it poorly written... Being more humble would vastly have improved it in my opinion. Then again, I never did PnP
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Solanum Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:38 am
Thank you for posting this!
This together with the follow up : http://lookrobot.co.uk/2013/06/23/stanislavski-vs-brecht-in-tabletop-roleplaying/ was a great read.
This together with the follow up : http://lookrobot.co.uk/2013/06/23/stanislavski-vs-brecht-in-tabletop-roleplaying/ was a great read.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Paia/Jenit Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:41 am
Raenmar wrote:FOUR. Take full control of your character.
I disagree with this. Changing your character just so you can go to an event or whatever doesn't necessarily make you a better RPer. For me an unnatural change to my character sort of ruins the RP.
Making a character who never has any reasons to do anything does make you a pretty annoying person though. Especially if you then complain that nothing interesting ever happens to your character. Which is pretty much what they're saying.
Also remember that these were written for pencil and paper games where you're often in a fairly small group everyone is expected to take part in most, if not all of the game in some fashion. Otherwise what would be the point in playing?
That guy who never has his haughty elf ranger never do anything beyond take part in combat and sit about being haughty and emo is pretty irritating let me tell you. Especially when he then complains that the dwarf fighter the human wizard and the halfling rogue got interesting side-quests and he didn't despite the GM specifically making him several plot-hook quests based on his 9 page back-story* which he promptly ignored.
*Note, there is nothing inherently wrong with having a 9 page backstory.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Thelos Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:01 pm
Paia wrote:
Making a character who never has any reasons to do anything does make you a pretty annoying person though. Especially if you then complain that nothing interesting ever happens to your character. .
Marry me.
(I'm sorry, Grim! His symmetrical phrasing just overwhelms my poetic fancies!)
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Grim Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:51 am
OMG. I thought we had something?!
Interesting points however. I feel about gnomes the same way the author does about kender.
The one I disagree with, ish, is number four. There are really some things some characters wont do...
What if your goody two shoes character is invited to a baby-slaughtering-party? I think it'd be perfectly legit to have the character say "Erm... I'm busy. Need to... wash my hair." and not take part.
Interesting points however. I feel about gnomes the same way the author does about kender.
The one I disagree with, ish, is number four. There are really some things some characters wont do...
What if your goody two shoes character is invited to a baby-slaughtering-party? I think it'd be perfectly legit to have the character say "Erm... I'm busy. Need to... wash my hair." and not take part.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Thelos Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:54 am
Grim wrote:The one I disagree with, ish, is number four. There are really some things some characters wont do...
What if your goody two shoes character is invited to a baby-slaughtering-party? I think it'd be perfectly legit to have the character say "Erm... I'm busy. Need to... wash my hair." and not take part.
Common sense.
It's a thing.
It's generally a good idea when reflecting upon an article presume that the author isn't a brainless idiot. I am sure the writer of this article isn't going to tell you that, in your case, you should alter your character in such a way that he could attend he baby-slaughtering-party, because that would be stupid.
There's lots of space between the two extremes. A lot more then at the edge, actually.
I invite everyone to join me here.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Coppersocket Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:16 am
You're a horrible person.Grim wrote:I feel about gnomes the same way the author does about kender.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Grim Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:38 am
It's funny, because it's you saying it!
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Coppersocket Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:00 am
I think we can find ourselves in a mutual disagreement that satisfies both parties.Grim wrote:It's funny, because it's you saying it!
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Muzjhath Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:51 am
I read that in a Nixon of Futurama voice. With the jowels.Paia wrote:
As for the article. I find it good, but non of the point should be taken to extremes.
PvP. If you go around and the ONLY thing you do is fight and try to kill other player characters, you will not be popular.
The "Oh I'm not doing that!" If you're playing a character that's 100% not part of the group, you will be boring. (Say, a puritan charcter who won't even enter a tavern in a group of drinkers who, generally, hang around inside a tavern).
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Grim Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:01 pm
But there's nothing wrong with being boring, if it fits the character... I've often had Grim stand in corners at parties growling at anyone who dares try to make him enjoy himself.
And I'd rather log off and find something else to do than bend or break a character's personality sometimes. Not every time mind you, sometimes its freaking awesome to surprise everyone and roleplay your character acting differently.
And I'd rather log off and find something else to do than bend or break a character's personality sometimes. Not every time mind you, sometimes its freaking awesome to surprise everyone and roleplay your character acting differently.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Paia/Jenit Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:10 pm
Grim wrote:
And I'd rather log off and find something else to do than bend or break a character's personality sometimes. Not every time mind you, sometimes its freaking awesome to surprise everyone and roleplay your character acting differently.
This is the thing really. Point 4 was written very specifically for tabletop/pencil and paper games. In WoW if there's nothing fitting your character's intentions you log off or do some Battlegrounds or Arenas or LFR or something and there should be enough players left that your absense/non-participation isn't a problem. I know that Paia in both her incarnations also doesn't particularly mix well with parties so I either don't attend them or I sit in the corner being quietly and unobtrusively rude to people.
Round a table if one of the players is refusing to take part in the game in a significant way you have a problem. Be it not everyone being on the same page about the aims or the tone of the game, which happens. Or just one stubborn individual being stupid, which also happens.
Either way the game isn't going to be as fun either for the majority who are on the same page or for the minority who aren't taking part.
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Grim Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:51 pm
What on earth is your avatar picture and why do I love it so much?
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Re: 11 points towards being a better roleplayer
by Paia/Jenit Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:54 pm
It's from the cover of a really old Sci-Fi novel called "Clash of the Star Kings". The novel isn't very good but the cover is amazing.
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