Death Knights: Of Runeblades and Souls

Within my guild it has seemed to become quite the topic over what exactly a Death Knights relationship to their runeblade, their soul, and their ability to die due to the previous two. One of the guild members is an avid RPG player so he quotes everything directly from the RPG books as cannon. I had to tell him they negated the RPG in the CDev II but he still stands that the books are a better method for RP. This lead into a long discussion and it really was just two sides of the coin which I personally think could both be correct. I don't want to say there is a set way that a Death Knight and their runeblades work because people RP it differently. Until Blizzard is willing to step in and say "this is how it is" I choose that it's a player choice. I do wonder though, how does everyone perceive this working.

I can think of at least three ways that a Death Knight, their runeblade, and their soul work. So I'm going to just post the three methods and let everyone discuss. I'm waiting on Drustai to come in because her guide is quite indepth to this aspect and I'm sure I won't do it much justice in my sumup.

1) The Vampiric Blade

A) This is a large part taken from the RPG Books. It is said that every Death Knight possess a vampiric runeblade. The sword slowly steals the soul of their host and traps it within the blade. The blade also feeds off the souls of all those killed and this act helps to sustain and heal the Death Knight. With the soul trapped inside the blade, if the blade is destroyed then the Death Knight will die. If however the body of the Death Knight is destroyed, the runeblade retains the soul of its former master. It would take a great deal of necromantic ability to resurrect the fallen Knight because the runeblade would slowly become inert as it searched for a new host. Once another person picks up the blade the cycle begins anew.

B) This is taken from an in-game basis ignoring the RPG Books. The concept is still the same that the vampiric runeblade houses the soul of the Death Knight. However, if the blade is destroyed or lost it will not kill the Knight, but the Knight will remain imperfectly anchored to their body. They would need to act quickly, but it would be possible to possess a new vampiric runeblade by runeforging another weapon. Still, if the Knight's body were to be destroyed, the blade would become inert and seek a new host.

2) The Anchor Blade

Only a few Vampiric Blades are actually named, so my theory of choice is the anchor blade. When a Death Knight first starts, you subjugate your own weapon. It stands to reason that the runeblade may not even need to be a blade, but could be an axe, mace, dagger, etc. Unlike a vampiric blade which requires not magical intention from the user, this is one that only higher functioning Death Knights may be capable of producing. It requires understanding of magic, aptitude for spells, and the ability to have learned from the Lich about the creation of a phylactery. The soul is locked inside the Shadow Realm and is linked through necrotic magics to the body the same way the forsaken are linked. With the anchor blade however, the Death Knight transforms it into a phylactery of sorts, though not quite as powerful as a Lich phylactery. The Death Knight must keep it with them at all times, but should one or the other be destroyed it will not kill the Knight. If the phylactery is destroyed or lost, they must simply subjugate a new one. If their body is destroyed to a point where it would be unable to recover, the phylactery will restore the body over time. In the case of it being lost, it would simply lose power and become inert. This type of blade will still feed off life energy of those attacked, fueling the powers of the Knight, but it does not steal their soul once killed.

3) Just A Blade

There are some that see the runeblade as just that, a weapon. It has no link to their soul, does not feed on their soul, and is just a weapon that they inscribed runes onto. It has magical properties that allow them to activate their spells and increases their fighting ability but nothing else. Losing the blade would mean very little, but they would need to find themselves a new runeblade in order to fight at full potential. Should they die, their soul is lost just as if any other class were to die.


Honestly from my perspective, there are only a few actually named vampiric runeblades. I believe that these are generally what seperate a Second Generation Knight from a Third Generation. The act of possessing a blade with vampiric properties leaves you in the Second Generation which also allows you to be closer to living than even a Third Generation Blood Knight. I don't believe that the Sec Gens (like Koltira, Arthas) are truly undead but are in a state inbetween. While the Third Generation (which is players) underwent a different ritual to become Knights and are, along with their bodies, fully dead.

Well, open for discussion.

I mostly do it as the last one. Just a blade.. Though it is a great deal of who you are and it makes you full and full potential and all that stuff. But generally if my DK would lose it he'd not go all i'm toast, just i'd seem like damn, this is just anoying. The blade is a big part either way, runeforged much better so.

But that's my thoughts.

I'll throw my opinion here, though I'm sure loremasters will come and tell you more about this.

Most of the information I use for my roleplay comes from in-game sources and, about death knights, the comic about Thassarian(and lightly from 'Rise of the Lich King) novel.

In-game, it's terribly clear that no weapon is involved in the process of creating a death knight(talking about Third Gen, ofc). You can directly witness the ritual in the Acherus when you start a dk. Razuvious watches necromancers rise dead to unlife, and swiftly decides whom are worthy and eliminates the rest. No weapon can be seen. This strongly suggests that whatever blade or weapon you take after, has nothing to do with the death knight's soul or with its 'stability'. But, rightly so, some would reference:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:The_Emblazoned_Runeblade
as the the main evidence for the link between death knight-soul-blade, especially when Razuvious ays:

The runeblade is an extension of your being. A death knight cannot battle without a runeblade.

Though the game, through game mechanics and also by the fact that nowhere it's stated specifically that a death knight's soul is linked to his/her weapon(always speaking about 3rd gen dks, though same could be told of Thassarian, who never says anything about his soul being linked to his blade, as he even changes weapon during the the comic) strongly suggests that this has to be taken metaphorically, 'cause Razuvious himself in the same quest explains what the blade does really do:

The single most important piece of equipment to a death knight is the runeblade. It is through the runeblade that a death knight commands the powers of frost, blood and the unholy. The runeblade also acts as a vessel to store the death knight's runic power.

As you see, he says nothing about souls, or how the blade does obtain the 'charge' for its powers.

The time has come to create your first runeblade. Search the weapon racks on this floor and locate a Battle-worn Sword. Once found, take the sword to a nearby runeforge and use it to create a runeblade.

He talks of your 'first' runeblade, and doesn't say anything about it being important, being the blade or being the act of doing so for the first time. No mention of souls whatsoever.

The only reference to souls, and to the death knight's souls is on the following quest:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Runeforging:_Preparation_For_Battle

The mark of war is etched indelibly upon your soul, death knight. You have learned the dark art of runeforging and with it you will engrave runes of power upon your weaponry.
Preparations for battle must be made. Return to one of the runeforges, here in the Heart of Acherus, and use the power of runeforging to emblazon your weapon with a rune of power!
Return to me when your blade glows with dark energy!

That is all. The char is going to actually runeforge the blade now(before he just emblazoned it) and he will do that countless other times, as suggested by the Instructor himself.

Return often and emblazon all of your weapons. A death knight must be prepared for all that would dare oppose him!

In-game, that's all that you get about runeblades of 3rd generation death knights. No souls, no odd necromancy rituals involving weapons. Runeforging is dark art, yes, but because evidently it's magic made for the purpose of killing mercilessly.

The game is clear that no real link exists between the death knight's soul and his/her blade. In two guides at Wowinsider about roleplaying death knights such thing is not even mentioned or, not to be told, discussed.
Does it mean the death knight doesn't need a weapon? No, because he has the hunger to sate(thing I've seen terribly underplayed and underestimated), and without runeblade he can't use his magic(depends on the skill, of course, but generically speaking), differently from a pure magic wielder, who instead relies on mana(whatever you want to define it) which is what makes a death knight the killing machine who s/he is.

About devouring souls, warlocky like, by the weapon, I think we could tell the same, no in-game clues have been given about it. Does the death knight(and the weapon) to hurt people to charge runic power? Yes, that's clear. Does that involve souls. That's overthought.

That's my opinion, and my two cents.

Saying "The runeblade is an extension of your being. A death knight cannot battle without a runeblade." is the same as when a soldier is told never to let go of his weapon. DK's a warmachines, they need their weapon to wreck havoc, it's a sign of who they are.

And as also mentioned, a 'runeblade' is specifically important, as it lets them use their fancy powers.

Think of it as jedi's and lightsabers! *nods*

I have personally always used 1 due to the fact that I created Drustai back when the RPG books were still canon. I find it a more potent storytelling device, and one of the key things that separated a DK from "normal" undead. Drustai's connection with her blade was a major thing when she still had it, and its destruction was a huge piece of character development that continues to affect her to this day. For that reason I continue to use and support the use of the vampiric soulblade method, as it provides the most thematic impact and really makes death knights feel like death knights.

Since the RPG books were made non-canon, the blades have taken a much more vague impact in lore. They may not be "mini-Frostmournes" as they were in the RPG, but the first runeblade every death knight gets is called a soulblade, and it's still made very clear in lore that death knight runeblades are dark weapons that consume the life of others. Their forging process requires a blade that has already been used in battle (a blade that has already tasted blood and killed), and requires harvesting the essence of creatures that represent the three runes (as shown in Koltira's quests). Using such blades in combat still drains the life of its victims, and therefore these weapons should never be considered "just blades". They may not be soul anchors, and they may not leech souls themselves, but they are still very much vampiric runeblades in that their very being and purpose is in the consumption of the life force of others to fuel their magic. They are still wholly magical and evil weapons, possibly still possessed of a malevolent presence (Koltira describes his blade as if it has its own wants and desires--to feed on the blood of the weak).

This would be the standard type of blade used by third generation death knights, as defined by lore. A vampiric runeblade that consumes life force and requires the consumption of life force to be crafted, but does not consume souls and probably does not anchor the death knight's soul. It's not a regular blade, nor even a regular runeblade, but also not a soulblade to the degree of Frostmourne.


As for the Anchor Blade (or rather, Phylactery Blade. It is much more than just a simple anchor if it is capable of reanimating the death knight when they die)... that is something I have considered using before, when Drustai was debating what form to make her phylactery after losing her first blade. I ultimately decided that she would go the safe route of creating something small and nondescript rather than a blade she carries everywhere with her (and thus is at great risk of being destroyed), but it's conceivable that you could make a phylactery runeblade. In such an instance, however, the character would be more of a lich than a death knight. With their soul locked completely in the phylactery, they'd have great trouble maintaining their original shape and appearance, and such a method may even require destroying the original body and reanimating a new one that is nothing like the first (it is made clear by dev quotes that it is the creation of a phylactery, to which the lich's soul is completely bound, that results in their monstrous appearance). It'd be possible to use illusion or transmutation magic to appear as you did in life, but ultimately such a method, both the creation of the phylactery and any attempt to maintain original appearances, would require an incredibly skilled and knowledgeable arcanist. The vast majority of death knights do not possess the level of arcane knowledge necessary to make such a device, and therefore the phylactery blade would not be a common method used by death knights. A handful of those with extensive arcane knowledge would be able to create one, but not the average "footsoldier" death knight.

I'd also contend that the phylactery blade method should be a major RP'ed undertaking, in acknowledgment of the fact that phylacteries are something that should have a significant impact on the character's story (there's a reason why becoming a lich in almost every game that includes them is an extensive, drawn-out quest). The creation of Drustai's "phylactery" took about a year of RL time, and required a ritual being undertaken on a particular day of the year (Day of the Dead, where the spirit realm touches the material plane), with several participants involved, to capture the soul and bind it to the anchor. Ultimately it ended up only being just a simple anchor instead of a true phylactery, since her companions did not want her creating a true phylactery as the creation process is rather evil. Point is, such a device should be a major bit of character development, one that takes time and ideally involves other players in the process. Also, making it a long, drawn-out process means that if someone destroys it, it actually is a serious injury and makes your character vulnerable for a significant amount of time. Being able to replace it in a week would trivialize the actions of other players.

As said, a phylactery runeblade is not going to be standard. It's something only a handful might have the capability of creating. It should therefore be unique and significant and treated as such.

I don't mind what individuals play (I know a few people who RP having straight-up Frostmourne-style soulblades) but I see the -default- "modern" death knight sword as pretty much exactly what Dec said.

They describe it fairly clearly in the starting quests as a blade that you runeforge, then use to convert absorbed life force into runic power, and store it, to power your spells. And I'm with Allonia on the "is the same as when a soldier is told never to let go of his weapon." bit.

If you get your hands on a 2nd gen DK's blade it's a different story, of course, it wanting to eat part of your soul and all that.

Edit--Oh shiz, another New Yorker? O.O

EShadowsong wrote:I choose that it's a player choice.

Boom!

/thread

erwtenpeller wrote:

EShadowsong wrote:I choose that it's a player choice.

Boom!

/thread

Always, but bear in mind that what is being discussed is more which is the -standard- blade lore, since Blizz wasn't 100% clear on it. Regardless of that, though, 'course anyone can play it however they like, there's always ways to make it work.

Some very good posts in here I must say. I have to agree that there seems to be little correlation between the risen Death Knights (player class) and their runeblades based upon just the starting area quests. This isn't too much of a surprise as I didn't think they'd just hand out runeblades. It's that reason too I have a hard time picturing the vampiric runeblade since that type of a weapon should be special. If your soul is already severed when you're raised what's the need to give you a blade that's going to feed off a soul that's "loosely" attached.

I do like your line of thinking on the phlyactery blade though Drustai, that it should be quite an undertaking. Eliza had a phylactery which was a locket she embedded into her sternum. Due to recent events she took it out and allowed its destruction. Right now she's going to face off against her most powerful enemy and it WILL cost Eliza her life. It's going to be quite a thrilling end (I'd be willing to tell more if anyone is interested). But part of that is someone else is ready to sacrifice their life to save her soul from becoming part of the nether. Then I have an entire guild of Death Knights that will perform a ritual to rebind her soul to this world using the shattered hilt of her runeblade. After that I'm going to need a new phylactery and I might do the dia de los muertos idea Drustai and bind it that way. Maybe a few others will want to join in on that RP.