Druidic Healing Interacting With Death Knights?

So from what I know, Light magic can heal Death Knights, albeit painfully.

What about druidic magic? There's a component of the Divine in there, sure, but my understanding of nature healing is that it speeds already-present natural regeneration? And DKs have no natural regen, correct? Does this mean they aren't healed at all? Aren't healed well? Damaged by the magic?

Anyone know any factual lore about this, or theorycrafting, or is there serverlore on the topic?



(Incidentally, typing this post up has been the single most geeky moment of my entire life.)

As far as I've seen into Dk lore, Holy magic hurts them like fuck. It can be used to heal them but its a bit like cauterizing a wound. Not cool.

Shadow magic heals them.

And Nature magic dosen't really do anything to them at all.

This is just what I gathered from my research etc before I rolled Ani. Don't know any server lore on the matter.

From what I gathered by reading ideas on druidic healing, you make use of natural healing processes and general "life". There is none in DK's, so you can't heal them, no.

Gotcha, thanks guys!

My opinion: it could be argued either way.

On the one hand, if the druidic processes are interacting specifically and directly with the life of the target, the death knight's out of luck.

However, the Blood techniques of death knights involve a lot of things that mimic life, or alter/pervert the mechanisms of life for their own purposes.

A sufficiently open-minded druid might be able to figure out how to make their life-shaping magics interact with a Blood-aspected death knight's twisted imitation of life.

I'm definitely open for inventive ideas like that.

Thrakha wrote:My opinion: it could be argued either way.

On the one hand, if the druidic processes are interacting specifically and directly with the life of the target, the death knight's out of luck.

However, the Blood techniques of death knights involve a lot of things that mimic life, or alter/pervert the mechanisms of life for their own purposes.

A sufficiently open-minded druid might be able to figure out how to make their life-shaping magics interact with a Blood-aspected death knight's twisted imitation of life.

Blood magic is mostly about despoiling life, and is inherently different to druidism which is about restoration and preservation.

I believe druidic magic would be useless to a death knight, but it would not hurt him/her the way the Light does.

In my belief, every healing method that works on the living also works on the dead. In Warcraft universe the undead can be healed by Divine(holy) magic, but it hurts like a bitch.

Other healing works as normal. Healing magic can heal all and every wound a death knight have. However you can not heal them to "life", just like resurrecting an undead resurrect them back to unlife rather than life.

Source: game mechanics and a blizzard quote regarding the Forsaken and the Light.

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A different question is if the Druid/Shaman/Mistweaver is -willing- to heal the undead.

EDIT:

How I would personally play this out, is by having the druid revive the dead tissue temporarily, then restoring the tissue. As soon as the druid stops channeling their magic, the tissue dies again, but is left as good as new.

^This

The way I see it, and have explained it in the past, is as follows:

Druids healing is in essence "making stuff grow" in an accelerated way, using the life-force present in the subject, or by "shooting" life-stuff at the subject.

How I would personally play this out, is by having the druid revive the dead tissue temporarily, then restoring the tissue. As soon as the druid stops channeling their magic, the tissue dies again, but is left as good as new.

This would require a great deal of effort on the druids behalf, of course.

I personally consider druidic magic to work on DKs. DKs do have some life to them, otherwise they'd just be dead, not undead. Undeath = death, and life. For a death knight, or any undead to function, they have to feed on life.

The way I've always treated druidic healing used on Dru is that the druid is basically infusing life energy directly in order to 'jumpstart' natural healing. Essentially, during the duration of the healing, the affected tissue becomes somewhat alive again, and the natural processes start working. Of course the moment the infusion of life energy stops, the tissue instantly dies again and any natural healing ceases.

Also, in the reverse of holy healing, I treat druidic healing as being very pleasurable, because the undead feed on life. Healing with life energy is basically gorging the undead.

erwtenpeller wrote:How I would personally play this out, is by having the druid revive the dead tissue temporarily, then restoring the tissue. As soon as the druid stops channeling their magic, the tissue dies again, but is left as good as new.

This would require a great deal of effort on the druids behalf, of course.

Essentially this, yes.

Yeah, if anything druid healing could be a way for a DK to function without having to go on a massive slaughter fest. I'd picture it like someone spoon feeding you instead of you haivng to use your big ol' knife and fork.

Vaell wrote:Yeah, if anything druid healing could be a way for a DK to function without having to go on a massive slaughter fest. I'd picture it like someone spoon feeding you instead of you haivng to use your big ol' knife and fork.

This is how I've occasionally used it, though Dru really doesn't like it because she's afraid she'll lose control when being gorged like that. I like to treat too much life energy as being just as bad for DK sanity as too little. Very hard to keep your fragile self-control when you're starving and when you're in rapturous satiation.

I'm saying it's doubtful on account of death knights being necromantic beings (death energy) and druidic healing is based on the naural force of life (the obvious opposite of death). The light is a different matter all together I'd say since it's classified as divine. But yeah... opinions vary it seems

Braiden wrote:I'm saying it's doubtful on account of death knights being necromantic beings (death energy) and druidic healing is based on the naural force of life (the obvious opposite of death). The light is a different matter all together I'd say since it's classified as divine. But yeah... opinions vary it seems

Necromantic is not simply death energy. Death is shadow. Necromantic is a perversion of the forces of life and death to create something that is neither truly dead nor truly alive. There's still that component of life in them, otherwise they'd just be inanimate corpses.

Undead don't seem to have that much prolems with handling life energy, as seen by the fact that they can be Monks.

Give me a source on that Dru, one that is canon because in most settings I have played in necromancy is in essence death or rather death energies used in magical ways in order to raise the dead, decay the living etc (yes I have a weak spot for playing necromancers in tabletop rpgs )

Going to agree with Braiden.

Druids cleanse blight/undeath and so on. The very essence of what a druid is the completely opposite the undead.

However seeing as druidism is not divine, it very well could do something to the Undead. I would argue that it does nothing due what an undead or a DK is, an amalgamation of shadow/necromancy.

We know druids can heal the undead. This is a fact.

As far as I'm concerned it's up to the player to explain the why in any way they deem fit for their character.

Wait, druidism is not divine?

...Huh. I always assumed it was. That's how it is in most fantasy cosmologies; I don't see why WoW would be any different in this regard.

Braiden wrote:Give me a source on that Dru, one that is canon because in most settings I have played in necromancy is in essence death or rather death energies used in magical ways in order to raise the dead, decay the living etc (yes I have a weak spot for playing necromancers in tabletop rpgs )

Because if the undead only required death, they would not need to feed on the living.

I have always played necromancers, since long before I played Dru. It is essentially the only type of caster I regularly play. And never can the undead survive on just shadow energy (or if they can survive, it's always in a pitiful, insane, and weakened state). Undeath is always an unholy perversion of life and death (afterall, why do you think it's also called unlife?). Yes, it focuses on death and shadow, but if it was completely death it'd just be a corpse.

As for sources, just consider the fact that all necromancy spells require life essence to cast, whether that be blood, soul energy, or something else. All of a DK's abilities are operated via the draining of life energy from their targets.

An undead without life energy starves, going insane and losing all the control it has. At the very least, life energy is required for maintaining much of the control and direction in the undead creature. And as life energy is shown to always be required for necromantic healing, life energy is therefore also required if one wishes to tend to an undead's wounds. You can't heal with just shadow. Even Death Coil is fueled by runic power, which is gained through causing pain and suffering to a living being.

Vangrel Lansire wrote:Druids cleanse blight/undeath and so on. The very essence of what a druid is the completely opposite the undead.

Yes, and this is why they can heal the undead. We've already seen, in the Plaguelands, druids from the Cenarion Circle cleansing undeath and causing new life to grow.

I see druidic healing on the undead in a very similar fashion. They cleanse the undeath and cause new life to grow in its place. However, because of the unholy buffer that prevents from the soul from returning to the body, and as the soul joining the body is essential for the restoration of life, any healing the druid does on the undead is not ultimately successful. The tissue, though cleansed and revived and healed, immediately starts to be consumed by the undead tissue surrounding it the moment the druid stops focusing on it.

Just think of the undead creature like a patch of blight. Blight corrupts and consumes the land. A druid can cleanse and heal land consumed by Blight, but if they don't keep tending to it, the Blight will simply roll over and reconsume that little area. With an undead, a druid can cleanse and cure them of their wounds, even temporarily reviving that little piece of flesh, but the moment the druid stops tending to it, the rest of the corrupted tissue rolls over and consumes that patch of living flesh again.

Drustai wrote:

Braiden wrote:Give me a source on that Dru, one that is canon because in most settings I have played in necromancy is in essence death or rather death energies used in magical ways in order to raise the dead, decay the living etc (yes I have a weak spot for playing necromancers in tabletop rpgs )

Because if the undead only required death, they would not need to feed on the living.

I have always played necromancers, since long before I played Dru. It is essentially the only type of caster I regularly play. And never can the undead survive on just shadow energy (or if they can survive, it's always in a pitiful, insane, and weakened state). Undeath is always an unholy perversion of life and death (afterall, why do you think it's also called unlife?). Yes, it focuses on death and shadow, but if it was completely death it'd just be a corpse.

As for sources, just consider the fact that all necromancy spells require life essence to cast, whether that be blood, soul energy, or something else. All of a DK's abilities are operated via the draining of life energy from their targets.

An undead without life energy starves, going insane and losing all the control it has. At the very least, life energy is required for maintaining much of the control and direction in the undead creature. And as life energy is shown to always be required for necromantic healing, life energy is therefore also required if one wishes to tend to an undead's wounds. You can't heal with just shadow. Even Death Coil is fueled by runic power, which is gained through causing pain and suffering to a living being.

Well ok, maybe death energy is an oversimplification but the fact that you forcefully feed your magics with life that you pervert and drain or pain is far from the same as being healed by forces based on life (the classic case of conventional healing spells damaging undead in many, many rpgs is example of this). The fact that undead generally feeds on life does not mean that they react the same to healing by natural energies, in fact one could argue that the very essence of necromantic beings and the way life force is perverted by necromantic spells is against the natural order (what is dead stays dead) and that it would be difficult if not impossible to heal them by natural means if we pull the other side of this coin. Conclusion is that life and death is connected of course and it's only logical that you need essence of life such as blood, souls, pain or anything else in order to continue to stay alive after death but I still argue this does not mean the undead should be affected the same by actual healing spells (except for light that blizzard has already confirmed in a way but not given much explanation to). We use the same facts/ideas in different ways, I'm not saying yours is wrong but this is my opinion.

Drustai wrote:
An undead without life energy starves, going insane and losing all the control it has. At the very least, life energy is required for maintaining much of the control and direction in the undead creature.

Can I get some canon source on this? The only thing I've heard that's like this is the "hunger," instilled in death knights who were raised by the Lich King (and only them) to fuel their loyalty through forcing a desire to cause death and pain?

Drustai wrote:Yes, and this is why they can heal the undead. We've already seen, in the Plaguelands, druids from the Cenarion Circle cleansing undeath and causing new life to grow.

As far as I'm aware, they are not cleansing undeath at all, but rather dealing with plague (likely a fungal carrier for a magical ailment, based on all lore accounts).


As far as what "type" of magic life/undead energy are: Death knights are animated by shadow, and I'd always heard of necromancy as a -form- of shadow. Some fan lore states that they can heal mortals through blood magic, which is fair enough as that's a manipulation of the blood itself (and may well be able to heal in the way increased blood flow/etc would). However, necrotic magic can't heal the living. Why should living energy heal the undead?

erwtenpeller wrote:We know druids can heal the undead. This is a fact.

Where is it stated directly that nature magic can heal undead? I would -love- canon on this, honestly--NOT meant rudely! With creativity one can make anything possible, of course, but I prefer to go by as much of a scientific/lore basis as possible for most of my RP, and I don't want to "get creative" without research only to find that I'm breaking canon later.

Edit: Pretty much everything Braiden said is my main concern/thoughts on why druidic magic might -not- heal the undead.

Incidentally, my reasoning is that I have a druid who doesn't mind death knights ;D He's had a rough background, and he's a Worgen with rather unique views rather than a Night Elf who might see them instead as an abomination.

Is it not possible for everyone to role-play their own interpretation as they see fit?

Feral / Blackfall wrote:Where is it stated directly that nature magic can heal undead?

Game mechanics.

erwtenpeller wrote:Is it not possible for everyone to role-play their own interpretation as they see fit?

If it directly contradicts with existing lore than no.

Vangrel Lansire wrote:

erwtenpeller wrote:Is it not possible for everyone to role-play their own interpretation as they see fit?

If it directly contradicts with existing lore than no.

Nothing mentioned here does contradict existing lore, though. It's a discussion about extended fan-mythology.