Worgens as Death Knights

There is a lot of opinions flying around on this topic, so I have decided to make a post here;

Worgens and Death Knights.

How does it work, Lore-wise? Am I completly wrong to think that you need flowing blood to be able to even have a working shape shifting Worgen? Or do they stay locked in the shape they died in? I have a Worgen DK myself, and would love some help on that theme. :-)

Adrianna Leeria Maldoran wrote:There is a lot of opinions flying around on this topic, so I have decided to make a post here;

Worgens and Death Knights.

How does it work, Lore-wise?

Worgen death knights were members of A) Arugal's Silverpine Worgen, B ) Alpha Prime's Gilnean Wolf Cult, or C) Arugal's Northrend Wolf Cult.

Due to being one of the above 3, they have managed to maintain some of their sanity (not all of the members of the above three are capable of avoiding the mindless state, but we've seen plenty of them to know that at least some have maintained their sanity). At some point, they were killed and raised as death knights by the Scourge.

Arugal's Worgen minions have spotty shapeshifting capability. His Pyrewood Worgen could shift, but involuntarily and based on the time of day. His Northrend Wolf Cult was much more advanced, and capable of shifting voluntarily. Alpha Prime's Gilnean Wolf Cult are incapable of shifting (to my knowledge).

Therefore, a worgen death knight from the Northrend cult will have the most shapeshifting capability. Those from Arugal's Silverpine worgen may have limited or time-based shifting. Those from Alpha Prime's cult will not be capable of shifting.

Of course, going through the Tal'doren ritual should be capable of granting complete shifting ability, assuming it works on undead worgen.

Am I completly wrong to think that you need flowing blood to be able to even have a working shape shifting Worgen?

There is no lore that indicates that flowing blood is necessary for worgen to be able to shapeshift. Therefore, provided they meet the criteria for being able to shapeshift, then they can do it despite being undead.

Thank you for your insight there Cleared up a lot for me.

I don't see why it wouldn't work, I mean Worgen is something from the Druids, as long as a Druid teaches you how, it's simply a matter of doing.

I thought the Worgen curse didn't blend too well with Undeath?

Jeanpierre/Ragnilde wrote:I thought the Worgen curse didn't blend too well with Undeath?

The worgen curse gives its bearer a resistance to shadow (and nature) magic, and therefore a strong resistance to being raised into undeath. However, powerful necromancers are capable of overcoming this limitation, hence why the Scourge was capable of creating worgen death knights. Sylvanas merely lacks anyone capable enough, even with the val'kyr.

CDev Answers #2 wrote:Q: Why are humans who drink the blood of worgen unable to be raised as Forsaken?

A: Not only are the Val'kyr less powerful than the Lich King when it comes to raising the undead, but the worgen curse also makes raising them into undeath far more difficult than it is for normal humans. The worgen curse has roots in both the Emerald Dream (through the wolf Ancient, Goldrinn) and the holy power of the goddess Elune. In addition, those worgen who imbibe the waters of Tal'doren-through the ritual they undergo to maintain balance between the worgen curse and their humanity-have a further resistance to the corruption of undeath.

Thus, Gilnean worgen, by merit of having the Tal'doren ritual done to them, are even more difficult to raise than normal worgen.

Arugal's Silverpine and Northrend worgen, as well as Alpha Prime's Wolf Cult (and, by extension, the Bloodfang Pack) are much easier to raise into undeath due to lacking the ritual, though it is still difficult.

As a final poke for Worgen DKs there is always the option of a duskwood worg wandering into the scourge but this is quite unlikely. However if you can get a story about it, it is another option.

My final advise to Worg DK RPers (and DK RPers in general) is to ask the wise guy who /w you about how wrong you are to provide references.

I think the confusion is partly my fault, due to being misinformed. I was under the impression that the worgen curse is tranferred by blood, much like the affliction of a vampire. From there I was lead to believe that a worgen may acctually NEED blood for the curse to maintain. I also thought this was supported by the forsaken questline in silverpine where some of the main characters choose the worgen curse to prevent being turned. Never did it come up in my mind that this fact was merely a limitation of the Val'kyrs power, compared to other necromancers or the Lich King. I will set this straight with our worgen-deathknight guildmembers when I log on later tonight.

To summarize, Worgen deathknights follow this path right?

First they are part of either one of the following worgen groups:
A) Arugal's Silverpine Worgen,
B ) Alpha Prime's Gilnean Wolf Cult, or
C) Arugal's Northrend Wolf Cult.

Second they are turned by a powerfull necromantic being, either the Lich King or any other powerfull necromancer.

Third, they are stationed at the Acherus and yada yada yada....*some time passes, new avion is destroyed* and here we are.

Correct?

That's that as far as i see. Generally every death knight worgen was worgen before undead, so the other way round doesn't work most likely since the body is already dead and dead things usually don't get affected by curses.

I'm only guessing here, but you could say that it is transferred by blood, but it changes the body physically (every single cell is transformed) so blood is not really needed afterwards to trigger transforming.

Yeah i would say post mortum you are fine... but meh you can not say with any degree of proof either way.

If i did maake a worg dk I woud have the curse given to him by the scourge to try and make a better DK.

Hage/Bane/Calithildes wrote:I think the confusion is partly my fault, due to being misinformed. I was under the impression that the worgen curse is tranferred by blood, much like the affliction of a vampire. From there I was lead to believe that a worgen may acctually NEED blood for the curse to maintain. I also thought this was supported by the forsaken questline in silverpine where some of the main characters choose the worgen curse to prevent being turned. Never did it come up in my mind that this fact was merely a limitation of the Val'kyrs power, compared to other necromancers or the Lich King. I will set this straight with our worgen-deathknight guildmembers when I log on later tonight.

The Worgen curse is transferred by blood, and most likely other bodily fluids. However, once you have it, you have it. Even if your blood stops pumping (though DKs still -have- blood, it just doesn't pump), you will still have the curse. Just like vampirism, a full blood transfusion won't stop you from being a worgen once you have it, even if it starts as an infection in the blood.

And yeah, I think the devs originally meant for the worgen curse to make you immune to being raised into undeath. Then people pointed out, "But hey, you allowed worgen death knights!", at which point Blizzard retconned by saying that Worgen curse provides resistance, that Val'kyr are weaker than the LK, and that the Tal'doren vastly increases that resistance.

To summarize, Worgen deathknights follow this path right?

First they are part of either one of the following worgen groups:
A) Arugal's Silverpine Worgen,
B ) Alpha Prime's Gilnean Wolf Cult, or
C) Arugal's Northrend Wolf Cult.

Second they are turned by a powerfull necromantic being, either the Lich King or any other powerfull necromancer.

Third, they are stationed at the Acherus and yada yada yada....*some time passes, new avion is destroyed* and here we are.

Correct?

Correct. Also, shifting-wise: Some may not have and have limited shifting capabilities (the Gilnean Wolf Cult/Bloodfang type are, as far as I know, incapable of shifting unless they partake of the Tal'doren ritual, whereas the Silverpine Worgen only shift involuntarily at certain times of day).

Scourge val'kyr were also likely capable of raising non-Tal'doren worgen, and possibly even Tal'doren worgen, as Scourge val'kyr had the Lich King's power running through them. Forsaken val'kyr are likely weaker, and while they might also be capable of raising non-Tal'doren worgen, they have been confirmed as being incapable of raising Tal'doren worgen.

Pat ftw. well Sir Patrick (standard DK) and Pat his alter ego after 9pm ST.
Gahhh! how we all miss normal Pat constantly attacking and mauling other DK's. though the "fixed" brain-dead pat seems to be liked

Kyrby wrote:Pat ftw. well Sir Patrick (standard DK) and Pat his alter ego after 9pm ST.
Gahhh! how we all miss normal Pat constantly attacking and mauling other DK's. though the "fixed" brain-dead pat seems to be liked

Leeria never met 'evil' Pat. She only met braindead Pat XD

Not to mention she despice Patrick :3

Adrianna Leeria Maldoran wrote:

Kyrby wrote:Pat ftw. well Sir Patrick (standard DK) and Pat his alter ego after 9pm ST.
Gahhh! how we all miss normal Pat constantly attacking and mauling other DK's. though the "fixed" brain-dead pat seems to be liked

Leeria never met 'evil' Pat. She only met braindead Pat XD

Not to mention she despice Patrick :3

hmm thank shentin and her little intelect bracelet she put on pat that started his training from mad guard dog to sweet puppy *nods*

Monrena wrote:hmm thank shentin and her little intelect bracelet she put on pat that started his training from mad guard dog to sweet puppy *nods*

Sometimes I regret that we did such, I miss those fights with the mad Pat.