Good vs Evil (in response to 'Bash the Guards')

This thread is made due to some anger from the Disciples towards the Omen of Discord.

The question of power

The Good Guys have every reasonable advantage over every cult. They have a city full of guards, they have OOC and even IC numerical advantage (DoL+Chapter+Blades+Regiment), they have secure bases (at least Omen will never openly attack Abbey/Garrison/Command Center unless pre-arranged). There is more, good guys have access to the greatest repository of magical knowledge in the mortal world - the Kirin Tor and they wield the potentially most powerful form of magic in the universe - Holy Light.

Cultists are always only a handful (sometimes there might be more cultists than good guys in a particular place at a particular time), they can't rely on secure territorial bases (if their base is known, it is swarmed), they usually don't have support of guards (in Omen's question, I treat Goblin guards as neutral. They prevent ALL trouble, so they won't tolerate us attacking people either). There are also strong OOC disadvantages of being a cultist, you are excluded from public role-playing hubs. What cultists do have, is complete lack of morality that allows for many actions good guys will never do and they have Evil Magic and Dark Powers. (Some more than others)

Clash of Powers

In practice this means that cultists tend to Roleplay their characters to be usually stronger in some regard than the good guys, to offset the numerical advantage. We also like to use our toolbox of Invisibility, Teleportation and Summoning. But on this later. Good guys usually dislike when such are used, sometimes rightfully so (will fix) but mostly unjustly.

Fixes from Omen's Side

As I've promised, I will rework the escape-guidelines regarding invisibility/teleportation and summons to address the issues brought up last night. I will also change the way we attempt escapes, to avoid misunderstandings like with Herad.

What Good Guys can do

Are you tired of cultists ressurecting or escaping? You have the Kirin Tor on your side! Did you see Herad drink from a strange vial and get superpowers? Well, send your mages to investigate it and find ways to counter it. You have the Chapter who can 'entertain' captured cultists with RP and has ways to make them talk. You have Blades for Hire whom you can use to go where your legal authority ends. You have Chapter&Blades you can use as spies and even infiltrators. At last there is the War Sect whom you can take on as your Dark Arts Advisors. In short, there is endless potential to involve other people and other guilds in roleplay and fight the cults by other means than just grabbing cultists and throwing them in irons. If you want a 'victory' over the cult, you can have a lot more fun working with them mages and developing some clever tool than simply zerging a lonely cultists. I would love to have more "Hey, Sophyra. We saw your people use this power. We have a mage working on it. Any way we can counter it?" instead of "Sophyra! That power is overpowered!". In short, reach out to other good guys and work together, dammit! But...

Lighty Disunity

I've proposed greater unity for the good guys before. I do not remember which Disciple I spoke to exactly, but he told that his guild will never ally with Blades for Hire/Chapter of Holy Anethion. Chapter right now is feverishly anti-magic. These things are IC descisions, and they are what cults thrive for. Chapter doesn't do magic? Excellent, then all our attacks on the Chapter will be magical in nature! Disciples are too honorable to hire mercenaries and too lawful to act outside Stormwind? Perfect, our secret base will be where Disciple jurisdiction doesn't exist.

It is same for us. Black Hand and Omen are at war. This means that Omen spends a great deal of time trying to screw the Hand, and we can't usually enter Duskwood without being stomped at by angry evil Death Knights. There are also consequences to 'class balance', Omen doesn't have good healers so our downtime is usually longer unless players really don't want to RP being wounded. We don't have DKs/(active) Necromancers so there won't be any undead or plague attacks.

What Cultists Fear

I admit there is something I fear. I fear the 'justice system'. I fear being in jail for two weeks without RP or trial. And I fear that all capture equals death. The latter isn't a problem, but it becomes a problem if every time my character escapes capture is seen as an OOC affront to the Lighty doing the capturing. Again, there are so many ways to 'defeat' in this case Sophyra, that always going for the proverbial kill sounds unimaginative. On question of victory and defeat, if good guys see their victory as something else than capture/death of cultists - I will be glad let them win much more often.

what about jumping on flying flying clouds as people charge at you? I thought that part was ridiculous.

Crothu wrote:what about jumping on flying flying clouds as people charge at you? I thought that part was ridiculous.

At least when Beladon came I rather explicitly emoted already standing on the aforementioned flying disk. So sorry if you were not in range. It was more of a question of 'move the flying disk' than 'jump on flying disk out of nowhere'.

Melnerag wrote:This thread is made due to some anger from the Disciples towards the Omen of Discord.

The question of power

The Good Guys have every reasonable advantage over every cult.

This is a matter of opinion.

Melnerag wrote:They have a city full of guards,

Which most people opposed to us usually ignore.

Melnerag wrote:they have OOC and even IC numerical advantage (DoL+Chapter+Blades+Regiment),

Except for impromptu events, which is most of the time.

Melnerag wrote:they have secure bases

Which aren't very secure when every criminal can pick a lock and most cultists can mind control the guards to unlock doors with keys they might not even have.

Melnerag wrote:(at least Omen will never openly attack Abbey/Garrison/Command Center unless pre-arranged).

Was the attack which freed Herad from our custody pre-arranged?

Melnerag wrote:There is more, good guys have access to the greatest repository of magical knowledge in the mortal world - the Kirin Tor

When I suggested that Vaell, a member of the Kirin Tor, be invited to become a magistrate, I was told that it would be good because the Kirin Tor are neutral but not possible because he is not citizen of Stormwind.

Melnerag wrote:and they wield the potentially most powerful form of magic in the universe - Holy Light.

Except that in the game of magical top trumps, cultist powers always beat Holy Light. Generally people complain if we use the Light for anything other than the most minor things.

Melnerag wrote:Cultists are always only a handful (sometimes there might be more cultists than good guys in a particular place at a particular time), they can't rely on secure territorial bases (if their base is known, it is swarmed), they usually don't have support of guards (in Omen's question, I treat Goblin guards as neutral. They prevent ALL trouble, so they won't tolerate us attacking people either).

I won't argue these points although the Goblin guards are just as effective as friendly guards in stopping us from attacking a base there.

Melnerag wrote:There are also strong OOC disadvantages of being a cultist, you are excluded from public role-playing hubs. What cultists do have, is complete lack of morality that allows for many actions good guys will never do and they have Evil Magic and Dark Powers. (Some more than others)

These disadvantages are insignificant unless the cultists are full time roleplayers. I couldn't name a single cultists who won't go to Stormwind OOCly if he needs to.

Melnerag wrote: Clash of Powers

In practice this means that cultists tend to Roleplay their characters to be usually stronger in some regard than the good guys, to offset the numerical advantage. We also like to use our toolbox of Invisibility, Teleportation and Summoning. But on this later. Good guys usually dislike when such are used, sometimes rightfully so (will fix) but mostly unjustly. )

If these powers are used to make the cultists impossible to capture unless it suits their future plans, ICly or OOCly, which they often are, even when the good guys don't have a numerical advantage, which is most of the time, they are overpowered.

Melnerag wrote: Fixes from Omen's Side

As I've promised, I will rework the escape-guidelines regarding invisibility/teleportation and summons to address the issues brought up last night. I will also change the way we attempt escapes, to avoid misunderstandings like with Herad.

On a brighter note, I do appreciate that you want to work with us to make things fairer.

Melnerag wrote: What Good Guys can do

Are you tired of cultists ressurecting or escaping? You have the Kirin Tor on your side!

Vaell and Arenfel. A maximum of two people if they are available and reachable in time, which is seldom.

Melnerag wrote:Did you see Herad drink from a strange vial and get superpowers?

No, but even if I did, it was a bit late by then. Investigation takes more than a split second in the middle of combat.

Melnerag wrote:Well, send your mages to investigate it and find ways to counter it.

We have one and she has a broken leg.

Melnerag wrote:You have the Chapter who can 'entertain' captured cultists with RP and has ways to make them talk.

Never, while a single Disciple draws breath. If we work with the Chapter, it's partly in the hope that they will give up this dispicable practice, and partly so that we can keep an eye on them to make sure they don't do it.

Melnerag wrote:You have Blades for Hire whom you can use to go where your legal authority ends.

Fair enough. We have considered employing them but I feel uncomfortable ICly about using them.

Melnerag wrote:You have Chapter&Blades you can use as spies and even infiltrators.

We might use them as scouts, but not as infiltrators. I'd never want to put someone in the position where they have to use dark powers to be convincing.

Melnerag wrote:At last there is the War Sect whom you can take on as your Dark Arts Advisors.

It's all I can do to stop some of the Disciples from arresting Death Knights on sight, just for being Death Knights.

Melnerag wrote:In short, there is endless potential to involve other people and other guilds in roleplay and fight the cults by other means than just grabbing cultists and throwing them in irons. If you want a 'victory' over the cult, you can have a lot more fun working with them mages and developing some clever tool than simply zerging a lonely cultists. I would love to have more "Hey, Sophyra. We saw your people use this power. We have a mage working on it. Any way we can counter it?" instead of "Sophyra! That power is overpowered!". In short, reach out to other good guys and work together, dammit!

We can and do involve other guilds when it's practical. The simultaneous battles against the Omen of Discordia and Black Hand recently have involved, to some degree or other, the Disciples, the Chapter, the Kingdom of Stromgarde, the Argent Crusade, Blades for Hire and the Three Hammers, even if it's just a preliminary enquiry for help later in the campaign.

Melnerag wrote: But....

Lighty Disunity

I've proposed greater unity for the good guys before. I do not remember which Disciple I spoke to exactly, but he told that his guild will never ally with Blades for Hire/Chapter of Holy Anethion. Chapter right now is feverishly anti-magic. These things are IC descisions, and they are what cults thrive for. Chapter doesn't do magic? Excellent, then all our attacks on the Chapter will be magical in nature! Disciples are too honorable to hire mercenaries and too lawful to act outside Stormwind? Perfect, our secret base will be where Disciple jurisdiction doesn't exist.

That's right. The only other guilds I'm really comfortable in dealing with are the Holy Lightbringers, the Three Hammers and Natures Grasp, and the latter two are just because I accept that different races have different cultures that we should respect, even if they are different to our own.

Melnerag wrote:
It is same for us. Black Hand and Omen are at war. This means that Omen spends a great deal of time trying to screw the Hand, and we can't usually enter Duskwood without being stomped at by angry evil Death Knights. There are also consequences to 'class balance', Omen doesn't have good healers so our downtime is usually longer unless players really don't want to RP being wounded. We don't have DKs/(active) Necromancers so there won't be any undead or plague attacks.

Even if you don't work together ICly, it still works in your favour simply because the volume of RP thrown our way whether we like it or not means that we don't have time for some of the things we'd like to do like training events and World-PvP.

Melnerag wrote:
What Cultists Fear

I admit there is something I fear. I fear the 'justice system'. I fear being in jail for two weeks without RP or trial. And I fear that all capture equals death. The latter isn't a problem, but it becomes a problem if every time my character escapes capture is seen as an OOC affront to the Lighty doing the capturing. Again, there are so many ways to 'defeat' in this case Sophyra, that always going for the proverbial kill sounds unimaginative. On question of victory and defeat, if good guys see their victory as something else than capture/death of cultists - I will be glad let them win much more often.

Well, the justice system is something I think we all agree there is a problem with. We don't want to hold prisoners for long periods but our only other alternative is to let people go without adequate punishment.

Remember that cultists, big-evil-scary-death knights, and all other server villains should exist, first and foremost, for the FUN of the good guys. To give everyone something to do. Everyone should remember that: don't get upset about villains, nor should villains aim to truly cause any lasting harm to the server population or anyones' fun. Most people know this already but it's just something everyone should bear in mind, imo.

Also, I'm not sure who said the Disciples wouldn't hire Blades :O I think the Surwich attack was just that, and it's been looked into again more than once. I'm pretty sure the guilds currently get along <3 But yes, greater unity for the Lighties is always a good thing, although the IC strife between them makes for some good RP.

Regarding the drama, I think the main thing to remember is this. If you're planning an attack, a prison break (particularly if you are going to try and bypass long-accepted defenses), a kidnapping etc; make sure to okay and organize it OOCly first.

It's been said before and it's something that I think Blades have learned firsthand (as recently mentioned in another forum post), that because of a few reasons, and for the fun of all of those involved, just about everything should be sorted in -advance,- and more specifically, with officers or a guildmaster of the other involved guilds.

- People who are ICly in a location may be offline. This means that your giant attack might run into 2 enemies, whereas 10 are meant to be there, pissing off everyone involved. SORT IT OOC FIRST.

- Your kidnapping squad might turn up, emote attacking someone and then find out that person needs to OOCly log out in 5 minutes, or that their face has been magically altered and TRP didn't update fast enough, causing awkwardness all around. SORT IT OOC FIRST.

- Your group might sort something OOC with a recruit of another guild, turn up to attack that guild, and find that damn, none of the officers of the guild were informed. It's happened, everyone knows about it, it causes drama. SORT IT OOC FIRST.

Yes, it is metagaming to an extent. Yes, the good guys will be aware of the impending attack. But in order for the -realism- of attacking a secure Garrison (this aimed at the recent attack by Omen, not just a reference to the Blades incident), the smooth running of a big guild vs guild fight, etc, everything should be sorted OOCLY FIRST. I'd go so far as to recommend both groups be in the same raid for longrange emoting and OOC /rw by leaders of both sides. You might want to get the jump on the enemy IC, but OOC it's just not fun for anyone, in my experience.

And the most important thing about RP to remember, is that -everyone- should be having fun. *nod*

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote:There is more, good guys have access to the greatest repository of magical knowledge in the mortal world - the Kirin Tor

When I suggested that Vaell, a member of the Kirin Tor, be invited to become a magistrate, I was told that it would be good because the Kirin Tor are neutral but not possible because he is not citizen of Stormwind.

Which was silly, because members of the Kirin Tor do not lose their previous citizenship. There's no reason Vaell can't be a magistrate.

Melnerag wrote: What Good Guys can do

Are you tired of cultists ressurecting or escaping? You have the Kirin Tor on your side!

Vaell and Arenfel. A maximum of two people if they are available and reachable in time, which is seldom.

There is Vaell, Arenfel, Alorah, Kazbo, Ollie, myself, and some others. Not all are regularly online but there is definitely more than two. I know I've specifically offered assistance to the Disciples regarding merging our respective cultist investigations in the past and was rebuked, so eh.

My mage might be up for being more Kirin-Tor related once his current storyline/events resolved, depending how it plays out, but I'm not sure how much use a cowardly illusionist will be in the fight against Evil

But yeah, aside from that; pretty much, Feral's post. Ooc communication needs to occur and people on both sides need to have faith that ooc knowledge won't lead to metagaming.

Perhaps some sort of loose anti-cultist alliance could be formed ic in response to the recent threats. As much as DoL, the Chapter, and Blades have large differences, the one thing they have in common is a hatred of cultists. could be good/tense rp.

I'm sadly not able to be all that active at the moment, but I only have two real rules with RP, which I am well aware some may disagree with, so in no way am I saying "Lol your wrong" this is just how I roleplay.

First of all, I believe nobody should ever "expect to win", I think that is a problem, and while it may sound silly I have seen many arguments where people have got annoyed because things have not gone their way and caused an ooc argument about it, I find that sort of thing just puts a bummer on the end of what might have been a great RP event. (Which of course leads back to the before hand mentioning etc etc)

Second of all, and of course I'm aware this is just me, but if -any- of my characters got into a situation where they would die, I think its best to accept it, for instance if Anivitas get's caught, I am well aware he would die, and pulling the "I don't want him to die" even when it makes perfect sense ICly ruins immersion for me, that said I don't agree with pulling a ridiculous stupid mega backflip emote to escape death either.

I agree on the point where often server villains will make themselves stronger in order to tip what is a larger player base towards the nice guy guilds, for instance before I rolled Anivitas I read up the lore, did a bunch of research and rolled him and he is damn powerful, however I made sure to take note of his limitations, and his weaknesses, and that he is in fact while powerful, not superman. I think that just leads back the whole theme of "The big bad guy".

For instance, when I kidnapped the dear poster above me, Ferals companions (The Blades) came to the rescue, I was not expecting them ICly or OOCly, so when they turned up in the cave and it was just me and Aldaya with Feral tied up, I was very much thinking it was time to die, and I would have accepted it rather then punched a hole through the wall and triple backflipped out, or telling them oocly "You can't kill me" (Course once again just my opinion) Luckily I managed to talk my way out of it, with a bit of "negotation" involing a sword to Ferals neck. Ahem.

Anyway, that concludes my rant.

Melnerag wrote:(at least Omen will never openly attack Abbey/Garrison/Command Center unless pre-arranged).

Valestrion wrote:
Was the attack which freed Herad from our custody pre-arranged?

As said, that was a misunderstanding and Omen indeed -will- not do anything involving garrison in the future without arranging it.

Melnerag wrote:There is more, good guys have access to the greatest repository of magical knowledge in the mortal world - the Kirin Tor

As to the rest, making an IC choice of Honor-first, Pragmatism-second has its consequences. If for IC reasons the good guys are not united, then they are not united. If they are not on talking terms with mages/druids/shamans/w.e other group, then they don't have access to the benefits of that.

I consider myself a full-time cultist at this point, and I do not head to SW unless it is to shadier parts. And I will certainly not attack anybody infront of the Cathedral.

But overall, I really want to know what the Disciples -expect- from good-vs-evil RP. With the Chapter, we know of each other what every side wants and so far our encounteres were perfectly drama-free. I wish we could just be able to sort out the mess and role-play without hiccups. Which is hard when every disciple reacts differently OOCly to same situation, some see a certain element of RP as fun, others as OP/Horrible.

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote:You have Chapter&Blades you can use as spies and even infiltrators.

We might use them as scouts, but not as infiltrators. I'd never want to put someone in the position where they have to use dark powers to be convincing.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see that going something along the lines of;

*Sends Blade to infiltrate the cult*

*Blade comes back a week later and try's to kill everyone as he is now a converted cultist.*

I agree with a lot of what you're saying Valestrion, just a few things stuck out...

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote:They have a city full of guards,

Which most people opposed to us usually ignore.

I think this really needs to change. It breaks immersion to think it is just the RP community that occupies the city, I like to try and imagine crowds in certain parts and the patrolling guards all being privates of the regiment. I've seen many arguments caused by people ignoring the local guards and what not, one in particular actually wound me up last night - I don't tend to get angry in any form of RP, but this got to me. I will avoid naming people as the name and shame game will only lead to drama, but I hope they read it. On my guard, off duty, my character asked a Blade if she wanted to "bang" (he is a womaniser) and he was surrounded and assaulted by Blades, forcing him to get out. He drew his sword but was outnumbered, one Disciple was there. I returned fully armoured up and with a helmet on, looking like your standard Regiment guard. Stood across the street, looking like your standard guard. 3 patrols went past (yes, I counted!) whilst two Disciples now asked for my guard's name to the people at the door to the Pig. They instantly turned around, saw my OOC name floating above my head and came up accusing me. Dispite my character masking his voice, they still accused and tried to take off his helmet. After my character informed them he was there by orders of Samian - the Major told me OOCly that one of said two Disciples was whispering him trying to get the OOC truth out of him. Needless to say, if Wulfgnar hadn't come along and ceased the situation - a lot more drama would have spewed out.

My point being that 6 other guards walked by and my OOC name was taken as evidence. The same goes for when people fight in occupied towns and by guard stations, it all seems a little silly. It takes away the necessity to be subtle with crimes.

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote:they have secure bases

Which aren't very secure when every criminal can pick a lock and most cultists can mind control the guards to unlock doors with keys they might not even have.

I brought this up in the other thread but the reason people do this is because they're being neglected on an OOC level. I personally would just RP an NPC magistrate taking on the case and being released by NPC guards if it came down to it. Not exactly a triumphant exit, but there isn't anything worse than having your RP spoilt by jail time.

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote:There are also strong OOC disadvantages of being a cultist, you are excluded from public role-playing hubs. What cultists do have, is complete lack of morality that allows for many actions good guys will never do and they have Evil Magic and Dark Powers. (Some more than others)

These disadvantages are insignificant unless the cultists are full time roleplayers. I couldn't name a single cultists who won't go to Stormwind OOCly if he needs to.

I think he meant ICly. As a cultist, you're limited to only RPing with other cultists or outlaws. Going to the city ICly is dangerous and often out of character.

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote: What Good Guys can do

Are you tired of cultists ressurecting or escaping? You have the Kirin Tor on your side!

Vaell and Arenfel. A maximum of two people if they are available and reachable in time, which is seldom.

I think Arenfel comes on at least every other day and I've been active pretty much every night bar a few since MoP release. Nothing seldom about our wherabouts! I've often said after you guys don't bring myself, Crowley, Arenfel etc along that all you needed to do was ask! I jump at any opportunity for fighting cultists.

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote:Well, send your mages to investigate it and find ways to counter it.

We have one and she has a broken leg.

With the Kirin Tor joining the Alliance (even without, the KT oppose cultists) you have a lot more RPers at your disposal. There are a lot of us who RP magi of the KT.

Valestrion wrote:

Melnerag wrote:
It is same for us. Black Hand and Omen are at war. This means that Omen spends a great deal of time trying to screw the Hand, and we can't usually enter Duskwood without being stomped at by angry evil Death Knights. There are also consequences to 'class balance', Omen doesn't have good healers so our downtime is usually longer unless players really don't want to RP being wounded. We don't have DKs/(active) Necromancers so there won't be any undead or plague attacks.

Even if you don't work together ICly, it still works in your favour simply because the volume of RP thrown our way whether we like it or not means that we don't have time for some of the things we'd like to do like training events and World-PvP.

This seems odd to me since my leaving of the Disciples. Some months back, the guild chat in DoL was filled with "Every event is just training!" and then JP set up a decent W-PvP event which was followed up by various cultists showing up and bringing a spice to the RP. Granted, there are more now, but I've never thought there was too many. Sometimes they collide and two events happen at once, which I'm sure with a little OOC nudge people can push theirs a day or two back, but usually it just provides good rp. I've never seen it stop your ability to host/go to WPvP events.

Disciples don't have any-one. Disciples are the only Lawful good guild. Chapter are corrupted, Blades are mercenaries. Neither of those guilds like the Disciples. In the past Disciples have had Holy Lightbringers, Argent guard and sometimes Lordaeron alliance. Disciples are pretty much solo and -everything- is landed on us.

I mean... normally when i try to help with cultists, i get arrested... but yeah, if you need mage backup just ask Vaell to fetch Kazbo.
As long as i don't get thrown in a cell... for helping out... again :C

Edit: Wulf! Kazbo is totally lawfull good......... shut up....

The Blades did like the Disciples, but after Wulf accused them of all being murderers, and they jumped to the deffence of Vaell during the argument at the tournament grounds, that sort of went south. But yes they are in no way lawful

Wulfgnar wrote:Disciples don't have any-one. Disciples are the only Lawful good guild. Chapter are corrupted, Blades are mercenaries. Neither of those guilds like the Disciples. In the past Disciples have had Holy Lightbringers, Argent guard and sometimes Lordaeron alliance. Disciples are pretty much solo and -everything- is landed on us.

Disciples are only solo if you allow yourselves to be. Just because you are "the only Lawful Good guild" does not mean you cannot ask for assistance from other, non-Lawful Good guilds.

Well its kind of difficult when they hate the Disciples! Its not something we choose really.

Chapter are corrupted

Why you little...

Tjib/Oragg wrote:I mean... normally when i try to help with cultists, i get arrested... but yeah, if you need mage backup just ask Vaell to fetch Kazbo.
As long as i don't get thrown in a cell... for helping out... again :C

Edit: Wulf! Kazbo is totally lawfull good......... shut up....

Pfffffff...

Wulfgnar wrote:Disciples don't have any-one. Disciples are the only Lawful good guild. Chapter are corrupted, Blades are mercenaries. Neither of those guilds like the Disciples. In the past Disciples have had Holy Lightbringers, Argent guard and sometimes Lordaeron alliance. Disciples are pretty much solo and -everything- is landed on us.

You had the lights chosen DK on your side but you forsake his help!!!

Becides the DoL are somewere between the Blades and the chapter on the corrupt league.

Vaell wrote: I like to try and imagine crowds in certain parts and the patrolling guards all being privates of the regiment.

Stood across the street, looking like your standard guard. 3 patrols went past (yes, I counted!) whilst two Disciples now asked for my guard's name to the people at the door to the Pig. They instantly turned around, saw my OOC name floating above my head and came up accusing me.

I agree about trying to pretend that guards truly are about. I've had people literally walk into the Pig to kidnap Feral, ignoring the presence of the guards, the barkeep, the various NPCs. (I went along with it anyway, but that's just because it's sort of Feral's "thing," am I right?!) People try to "steal" from the bar ignoring Reese--REESE. If you aren't sure; ask first!

That said, regarding your guard--I did try to ignore him for a time, but to be entirely fair, regardless of -patrols,- a Regimental guard suddenly appearing in a place where a guard does -not- normally stand, directly across from a recent guard-involved incident, watching us; well, I can't speak to the OOC incident afterward involving the Disciples. But if you couldn't hear the chat from across the road, they asked where the guard had gone, and Feral nodded over to your womanizer sorta fellow and said something along the lines of, "He's either gone and put on his armor or that's one of his friends sent to watch." His name had already been given out when they asked who did it.

Again, not sure of the OOC context, but it certainly wasn't meta; I do attempt to take other guards into account, as should everyone. That said; and this goes for cultists, and the other content in this thread, if you act suspicious, you will be suspected!

It is as easy as this
Protagonist
Antagonist

You both need each other, or it will become dramaticly polarized and dull.

Wulfgnar wrote:Well its kind of difficult when they hate the Disciples! Its not something we choose really.

Kirin Tor doesn't hate the Disciples. Even if you guys have given us shit for doing our jobs. <.<

Again, not sure of the OOC context, but it certainly wasn't meta; I do attempt to take other guards into account, as should everyone. That said; and this goes for cultists, and the other content in this thread, if you act suspicious, you will be suspected!

Without going totally off topic, the fact that they vigirously attempted to get my char to remove his helm, with the total suspicion it -must- be him, despite his voice sounding different... And then OOCly contacting the Major to get the truth. Nope. Wasn't the ideal approach.

(And whilst the regiment was active, hanging outside the Pig was pretty much what I and a few others did a lot! It was a place for consistent RP and disturbance.)

They should totally come back and do that again. I believe there was a murder or near-murder on our doorstep last night... while we were playing drinking games just inside, oblivious!

Drustai wrote:

Wulfgnar wrote:Well its kind of difficult when they hate the Disciples! Its not something we choose really.

Kirin Tor doesn't hate the Disciples. Even if you guys have given us shit for doing our jobs. <.<

What was the reason your group was disliked? Not the Kirin tor themselves! Come on, if you are going to do bad things or your character is a bad thing. Why should we trust!