Re: General WoW-related news thread [6-09-12: Lore Q&A]

[Thelos]

Can you blame me for being upset when a race I have tried to promote for about a year gets slandered? Intentional or not, it feels as an attack against something I cherish and have put a lot of energy in. How would you feel if I went around posting about how I feel Arathorian player-lore is bogus and ruins my immersion?

Well, nevermind. My draenei are dead and I role-play a worgen now.

[Aldric Essalus Helmfrid]

Personally don't mind it myself but I can understand why it would rustle a few feathers up. It is Sci-Fi afterall, can't deny that. Though if you look at Dungeons and Dragons and other popular fantasy franchises there are elements of this sort of stuff in there, it's just the Draenei are probably too extreme (extra-dimensional, space craft, immortality, space travel, 'home planet' etc etc.) for many peoples tastes. Though I personally don't mind. Diversity is good for interesting storytelling. Shame Blizzard hasn't seized the opportunity to do that now with the race, and I fear it's too late to do so in a meaningful way.

[Lexgrad]

Oh Dude, you try to escape race slander and make a Worg!?! Embrace the hate, join the Ebon Blade!

To some if it isnt human orc or alive it isnt WoW lore, to some If it isnt there lore, it isnt lore. Dont sweat it my were kin chum, just like the Lexadin all you need to remember is we are better then them.

[Drustai]

I have to agree with Anaei. I prefer the flawed race, as I do with any fantasy character. It makes for better storytelling. The Broken would have made a great race, a lot more depth imo.

I think the Draenai backstory ruins my immersion. The whole spaceship mumbo jumbo.

It's not a spaceship. It's an airship (or rather, an aircity) that can teleport. It is no different from Dalaran except in aesthetics.


Also, draenei are flawed. They are not perfect. Just because their flaws manifest differently than other races doesn't mean they don't have them. The flaws are subtle, and that gives them depth. What the problem with them is is that Blizzard rarely ever capitalizes on the story potential of those flaws. They come up more often in other sources (like, for example, the Velen story) instead of in-game. And when they are shown in-game, very little focus is put on them even though they should be very significant (the Auchenai being the major example of such wasted potential).

The draenei are by far the most interesting race in WoW, because they have such a different cultural mindset than the other races. The problem with the draenei has always been in their execution, not their traits or concept.

And no, the Broken wouldn't have been better on their own. They should have been an alternate character appearance for draenei, but not solely on their own. The Broken story requires having the untainted draenei present in order to get the most impact out of their plight. They are the outcasts, the degenerates--that doesn't work when the people they are outcast from aren't there to provide conflict.

[Magaskawee/Anaei]

Can you blame me for being upset when a race I have tried to promote for about a year gets slandered? Intentional or not, it feels as an attack against something I cherish and have put a lot of energy in. How would you feel if I went around posting about how I feel Arathorian player-lore is bogus and ruins my immersion?

To be quite fair, the difference is the Arathorian lore is my concept that I helped to create, I am talking about Draenei as a race, that blizzard created, their concept, no doubt you've done wonderful work integrating them, but you may notice, i'm neither on the alliance, nor do I role play with draenei. I'm going by my feelings on Blizzard's race.

[Thelos]

Can you blame me for being upset when a race I have tried to promote for about a year gets slandered? Intentional or not, it feels as an attack against something I cherish and have put a lot of energy in. How would you feel if I went around posting about how I feel Arathorian player-lore is bogus and ruins my immersion?

To be quite fair, the difference is the Arathorian lore is my concept that I helped to create, I am talking about Draenei as a race, that blizzard created, their concept, no doubt you've done wonderful work integrating them, but you may notice, i'm neither on the alliance, nor do I role play with draenei. I'm going by my feelings on Blizzard's race.

Then keep your snide comments that insult other people's hard work to yourself in the future, please, if you don't have anything to do with them.

[Aldric Essalus Helmfrid]

Also, draenei are flawed. They are not perfect. Just because their flaws manifest differently than other races doesn't mean they don't have them. The flaws are subtle, and that gives them depth. What the problem with them is is that Blizzard rarely ever capitalizes on the story potential of those flaws.

Can you give an example? I'm not too educated on Draenei lore.

The draenei are by far the most interesting race in WoW, because they have such a different cultural mindset than the other races.

Also I think this is a matter of opinion. I personally find Orcs to be the most interesting race in WoW due to how diverse they are as a race and how Blizzard broke from the norm for their take on the race (growling things we like to kill in the mountains and forests.)

[Ixirar]

Draenei is by far my favourite WoW race and if I had started playing after TBC I'd have rolled a draenei paladin. The only reason I still have never actually RPed a Draenei (on Blizzard's servers, anyways) is that I was too busy with my druid, DK and rogue to ever make one.

Not gonna be constructive here, so there's not a lot more to my rant than that first paragraph. Just felt like I needed to pitch that in here.

@Thelos: Anaei is criticising blizzard's work, not yours. Your reaction is like if I yelled at a person who drank pepsi, because he said some bad things about Coca Cola, which is a drink I enjoy, feeling personally insulted by his statements and thus entrusting myself with the responsability to valiantly defend any who dare insult the name of my holy drink. You're being way too much of a bitch about it :p

[Magaskawee/Anaei]

Can you blame me for being upset when a race I have tried to promote for about a year gets slandered? Intentional or not, it feels as an attack against something I cherish and have put a lot of energy in. How would you feel if I went around posting about how I feel Arathorian player-lore is bogus and ruins my immersion?

To be quite fair, the difference is the Arathorian lore is my concept that I helped to create, I am talking about Draenei as a race, that blizzard created, their concept, no doubt you've done wonderful work integrating them, but you may notice, i'm neither on the alliance, nor do I role play with draenei. I'm going by my feelings on Blizzard's race.

Then keep your snide comments that insult other people's hard work to yourself in the future, please, if you don't have anything to do with them.

Being snide is subtle, I openly show dislike for their ideas, it's called discussion, I believe several people agreed, wanna shout at them? Don't see why i'm being singled out here, seems like your over-reacting a bit to a comment i've made about something you weren't involved in either. Despite my best attempts to be nice and civil and even extend the possibility that you've done great works i'm unaware of you seem to have your finger firmly up your ass there, so take it out and realise that I wasen't talking about you. If you get insulted over someone disliking a race, that's a major exaggeration of your contributions.

[Dréfurion]

Personally I would've loved the Draenei if not for the sci-fi influences that Naaru technology brings. It's said before, it breaks immersion. Atleast it does for me.

It's a shame their great potential is wasted by Blizzard, however, they could've been a very nice addition to the Alliance. Potentially even a probably explanation to the Nelf changes.

[Thelos]

Can you blame me for being upset when a race I have tried to promote for about a year gets slandered? Intentional or not, it feels as an attack against something I cherish and have put a lot of energy in. How would you feel if I went around posting about how I feel Arathorian player-lore is bogus and ruins my immersion?

To be quite fair, the difference is the Arathorian lore is my concept that I helped to create, I am talking about Draenei as a race, that blizzard created, their concept, no doubt you've done wonderful work integrating them, but you may notice, i'm neither on the alliance, nor do I role play with draenei. I'm going by my feelings on Blizzard's race.

Then keep your snide comments that insult other people's hard work to yourself in the future, please, if you don't have anything to do with them.

Being snide is subtle, I openly show dislike for their ideas, it's called discussion, I believe several people agreed, wanna shout at them? Don't see why i'm being singled out here, seems like your over-reacting a bit to a comment i've made about something you weren't involved in either. Despite my best attempts to be nice and civil and even extend the possibility that you've done great works i'm unaware of you seem to have your finger firmly up your ass there, so take it out and realise that I wasen't talking about you. If you get insulted over someone disliking a race, that's a major exaggeration of your contributions.

Really?

Really?

You just go and mock something so callously, and you expect people not to get upset? There's plenty of people that have worked very hard to get draenei accepted as a valuable part of WoW lore and have invested a lot of time in it, and frankly, hearing people say it disturbs their immersion is insulting. All this time I was role-playing with you people I was actually breaking your immersion? Really? And you don't see anyhing potentially hurtful in this?

I'm out.

[Magaskawee/Anaei]

Can you blame me for being upset when a race I have tried to promote for about a year gets slandered? Intentional or not, it feels as an attack against something I cherish and have put a lot of energy in. How would you feel if I went around posting about how I feel Arathorian player-lore is bogus and ruins my immersion?

To be quite fair, the difference is the Arathorian lore is my concept that I helped to create, I am talking about Draenei as a race, that blizzard created, their concept, no doubt you've done wonderful work integrating them, but you may notice, i'm neither on the alliance, nor do I role play with draenei. I'm going by my feelings on Blizzard's race.

Then keep your snide comments that insult other people's hard work to yourself in the future, please, if you don't have anything to do with them.

Being snide is subtle, I openly show dislike for their ideas, it's called discussion, I believe several people agreed, wanna shout at them? Don't see why i'm being singled out here, seems like your over-reacting a bit to a comment i've made about something you weren't involved in either. Despite my best attempts to be nice and civil and even extend the possibility that you've done great works i'm unaware of you seem to have your finger firmly up your ass there, so take it out and realise that I wasen't talking about you. If you get insulted over someone disliking a race, that's a major exaggeration of your contributions.

Really?

Really?

You just go and mock something so callously, and you expect people not to get upset? There's plenty of people that have worked very hard to get draenei accepted as a valuable part of WoW lore and have invested a lot of time in it, and frankly, hearing people say it disturbs their immersion is insulting. All this time I was role-playing with you people I was actually breaking your immersion? Really? And you don't see anyhing potentially hurtful in this?

I'm out.

Granted, i'm sure that is hurtful. But kindly find where I said it 'breaks my immersion'. I've never once gone, "LOLNODRAENEI GET OUT OF MY RP LOLZ". I of course accept them, Blizzard put them in. Doesn't mean I have to be happy out it.

And yeah, really. I do expect people to be able to detach Blizzard's work from their personal feelings. A lot to ask for I know..

[Ixirar]

OH MY GOD I SEE IT NOW ANAEI MOCKED AN ANIMATED GROUP OF PIXELS IN A VIDEO GAME OH MY GOD HOW DARE SHE.

This is what you look like mate. Really.

If you get insulted over someone disliking a race, that's a major exaggeration of your contributions.

This is a really funny quote because taken out of context, Anaei is now a massive racist. I should be a political journalist.

[Lexgrad]

OH MY GOD I SEE IT NOW ANAEI MOCKED AN ANIMATED GROUP OF PIXELS IN A VIDEO GAME OH MY GOD HOW DARE SHE.

This is what you look like mate. Really.

If you get insulted over someone disliking a race, that's a major exaggeration of your contributions.

This is a really funny quote because taken out of context, Anaei is now a massive racist. I should be a political journalist.

You should prob turn your pc off more.

[Drustai]

Also, draenei are flawed. They are not perfect. Just because their flaws manifest differently than other races doesn't mean they don't have them. The flaws are subtle, and that gives them depth. What the problem with them is is that Blizzard rarely ever capitalizes on the story potential of those flaws.

Can you give an example? I'm not too educated on Draenei lore.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Unbroken_%28story%29#Text

Unbroken gives the best examples of the draenei flaw. Here's some choice quotes.

(spoilered because length)

Spoiler:

The draenei are by far the most interesting race in WoW, because they have such a different cultural mindset than the other races.

Also I think this is a matter of opinion. I personally find Orcs to be the most interesting race in WoW due to how diverse they are as a race and how Blizzard broke from the norm for their take on the race (growling things we like to kill in the mountains and forests.)

Oh I agree that the orcs are one of the most interesting as well. In fact, pretty much every Horde race is rather interesting. It's just most of the Alliance races that are drab and boring, with the exception of the draenei (and WCIII-era nelves).

[Ixirar]

OH MY GOD I SEE IT NOW ANAEI MOCKED AN ANIMATED GROUP OF PIXELS IN A VIDEO GAME OH MY GOD HOW DARE SHE.

This is what you look like mate. Really.

If you get insulted over someone disliking a race, that's a major exaggeration of your contributions.

This is a really funny quote because taken out of context, Anaei is now a massive racist. I should be a political journalist.

You should prob turn your pc off more.

I actually spend significantly less time paying attention to my computer than one would assume. I'm not sure if you're mocking me because I jokingly took Anaei's statement out of context (hopefully making it very clear I wasn't calling her an actual racist or anything) or because of what I said before that, though, and I fail to see why the amount of time my computer spends dormant is relevant to anything in this thread.

[Raenmar]

what the fuck

[Finnabhair]

what the fuck

Quoted for truth.

[Vaell]

I don't usually use memes but that Anchorman escalated quickly one would fit perfectly here!

Thelos, you need to calm down my friend. No one is going "FUCK THE DRAENAI, BURN THEIR RACE AND ANY WHO RP THEM!" They're giving constructive reason to disliking something. Taking it personally and retaliating against that person is seriously retarded, sir! You have promoted the race, great. I rp with them, I accept it is part of WoW lore, it doesn't mean I have to enjoy that aspect. Blizzard are the creators and we rp their world, that is as simple as it gets. Yet, if I'm watching - for example, Star Wars - and I say that I dislike the gunguns to a person who RPs them, I'm not doing it to personally attack them, I'll still rp with them (in the context of rping Star Wars) I just dislike the race.

My issue with the Draenai is that it is a little too sci fi. Airship, Spaceship, call it what you like - it still flew across planets. Dalaran may have a similar concept but it is a fantasy flying castle, it is a cliché and one I love. Steampunk engineering is enjoyable in a fantasy environment and it is why I love Goblins and Gnomes. Draenai take it a step further to a point which makes me fairly bored to hear their story. It isn't interesting to me and I feel that Blizzard played the Draenai card just to get the story going, the race never meant much to me and I barely cared about them in WC3 / TBC.

Humans have their general power rising flaws and of course, you can relate to them. Orcs have such deep tribal roots and a tragic history that I adore. Elves of all types are rich with Tolkien like themes but taken to a higher concept fantasy level. Dwarves, again, rich with Tolkien. (I've already mentioned the Gobbo and Gnomo races) Trolls go hand in hand with Orcs and Tauren earnt their place in the Orc lore during WC3. I like dark fantasy, so Worgen and undead fit in nicely too. Draenai is my sore thumb in WoW lore. There are some really nice aspects to the race, don't get me wrong, I can see why people like it but it isn't my cup of tea.

One reason I adore Game of Thrones is that every single character gets one major flaw. Bran can't walk, Jon Snow is a bastard, Daenarys doesn't have the capability to reach Westeros, Ned Stark has too much honour etc etc. I bring this example up because WoW feels very similar to me in the ways that each race and faction acts on a general level. This could be down to Blizzard's ignorance to the race or simply because I don't catch the vibe of Draenai, but they lack something for me. I like their tentacles though, they're pretty cool. (I also like calamari.)

TL;DR I'd prefer if they introduced Protoss.

[Raenmar]

If I may be so obnoxious as to ask, why are Draenei immersion-breaking and Pandaren aren't?

Also, Draenei are far from perfect. No more perfect than Nelves, except I personally think there should be far fewer 'bad' Draenei because of what all of them have experienced.

[Guest]

I think Draenei is the only race in WoW which feels different and unique, not just some animal given human properties and slapped a fitting culture on (Tuskarr eskimo, Tauren Indians, Pandarian Chinese)

[Raenmar]

not just some animal given human properties and slapped a fitting culture on

Gilnean RP says fuck you too

[Guest]

I forgot to mention the two-legged british wolfs. Silly me.

[Raenmar]

hi please ban baldson he is racist

[Guest]

"I should be a political journalist."

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