[H] 1st meeting of the 3rd Silvermoon Council. 22 May 2012 at 21:00 GMT+1

*scattered around locations of Thalassian interest, the following posters can be found.*



OOC:
That's tuesday 22 may at 21:00 GMT+1 in the place with the Blood Knight trainers.

EDIT:
Time changed to 21:00 GMT+1, the image hasn't been changed because lazy.

OOC:

I am unsure, if this is like the Stormwind Council meeting. But are foreign emissaries permitted?

OOC:

For now it's free for whoever wants to attend. I however can't predict how the Blood Knights will react to disturbances of foreign origin.

OOC:

Noted. Thank you, I may attend on an elf then, but perhaps not.

Could that be moved to 9pm server time?

OOC:

That depends on the other councilors.

Note, time has been changed to 21:00

Any update on how this went? I would have liked to attend but managed to completely miss the event post.

I have to say it went rather well, turn up was nice and the Blood Knights took their job seriously.

Ofcourse this was just an introduction to the councilors and the idea itself.
And Tiffane has mentioning restructuring the Blood Knights and will present a few candidates to become the council's "Champion". Someone to zealously enforce the council's decisions. It was a rather touching gesture.

The next meeting will likely be the 5th June 21:00 GMT+1, will have a first draft of the agenda up about a week before that.

>.>
<.<
Of course I can't speak for the others that attended.

Good to hear. I'm not interested in running for the council ofc (Arli -so- wouldn't fit) but really interested in seeing how it develops.

Chairbelf (me), 5 councillors, a (supreme) judge and a prosecutor are now in office. Soon, likely, adding a champion. It's early to say it, but I like where this is going.

I'm very pleased with the first meeting, despite me having a migreine that threatened to make my head explode, and a naggy ex on the phone through most of the meeting.. xD I think we've definitely got some potential in the group, and I'm looking forward to seeing where it's going!

A great thank you to everyone who showed up and made it goood ^^

Honestly, whilst I'm glad it's providing you guys RP, I find its undermining purpose somewhat lacking.

We'll see how it pans out, but I don't hold much hope.

Raene wrote:I find its undermining purpose somewhat lacking.

Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean, I'm not quite sure I understand.

Raene wrote:Honestly, whilst I'm glad it's providing you guys RP, I find its undermining purpose somewhat lacking.

We'll see how it pans out, but I don't hold much hope.

We've only just started, though. The goal for the council, as far as I'm aware at least, is to provide Silvermoon with some of the structure it's been sorely lacking. To create other aspects of Blood Elf RP, and hopefully pull people more into the political scheme of things.

Not to mention bring us closer to the Horde as a whole. To become more than the local ERP-hub..

Shandrea/Nar'Gaya wrote: The goal for the council, as far as I'm aware at least, is to provide Silvermoon with some of the structure it's been sorely lacking.

I'm not sore, and I doubt the other 2 dozen that RP in Sillyspoon are sore either. Perhaps a certain few might be a little upset that things aren't 100% run their ideal way, but it seems to just be this vocal minority that want things changed.

To create other aspects of Blood Elf RP, and hopefully pull people more into the political scheme of things.

"Hopefully pull people"? Politics? Really? People will RP what they find fun, and whilst Politics might be fun and 'fresh' right now, it's not going to attract the masses and I can promise you this.

Cynical side of me wants to say that if this council starts bogging down peoples RP down with made up RP-rulings and legislation then I hope every single one of the council members gets ICly assassinated for it. Viva la revolucion!

Not to mention bring us closer to the Horde as a whole.

You could have done that anyway. Without the need for a 'council'. You can never ICly speak on behalf of Lor'themar Theron, but you could always bring yourself closer to the Horde as your Guild/Regiment offering their services to the Horde. Why bring that on the rest of the RPers in Sillyspoon?

To become more than the local ERP-hub..

The Blizzard ToC might disagree with it, but it's a fact of RP, and considering that Belfs are (imho) hedonistic by nature, then Silvermoon will always be a place of sex, parties, bloodthistle, vices and Fel.

Another thing that bothered me about this council is the question as to what happens when one council member disappears for whatever reason? What's the line of succession? What if they have a job that they need to do, but can't make an appearance? Do we put peoples RP on hold? What happens if someone needs punishing, and Aishling can't be there to give out what their 'punishment' is for whatever reason?
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What Silvermoon really needs, is to disband all these 'warbands' and 'regiments' and just form under one banner. Honestly, why are we holding all these private allegiances working for the same cause but all under different names? Why not just have one Guild for all Belfs, split into 3 sub-sections (Farstriders, Magisters, and Blood Knights) and let each sub-section run itself? Hear me out.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Guild Leader
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- - - - Farstriders - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Magisters - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Blood Knights
Led by Farstrider Commander - - - - - - - - - - - - Led by High Magister - - - - - - - - - - - Led by Knight-Lady/Lord
- - Asst Farstrider Cpt - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Asst Senior Magister - - - - - - - - - - - Asst by Knight Champion
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- Farstrider/Military RPers - - - - - - - - - - - - Political/Caster/Magical RPers - - - - - - - - Knights/Police/Guard RPers



How many Belfs still claim to serve the city in one way or another? Even if your character doesn't particularly fit into the roles of one of these sects, it doesn't mean that you/they can't participate in whatever events a 'sect' organises. We pool all our RP into one Guild, and with one voice we're going to get along a lot better in the long run.

With each 'sect' left to run itself, the only thing a Guild Leader would be needed for is to act as an intermediary to the 3 groups should the need arise, a job that you're already doing Kristeas.

Say Cellistra wanted to run a Farstridery-esque event for the sake of a few giggles, s/he sets up this event and not only do all the Farstrider-esque RP'ers get a ginvite, but so do all the Rpers of the other sects who would be more than welcome to tag along.

Someone wants to go out and talk with the Horde? Make an event, send out a ginvite, and before we know it we have half of Silvermoons aware of these meetings and able to turn up rather than checking these forums every couple of days and risking missing out like Arli has done.

This is completely ignoring the obvious advantage of having a large playerbase ready for things such as BG's, Arenas, Instances, Raids, old gear runs, and all the rest of that stuff.

Now anyone who's ever been on the other side of the pond and played extensively as our longer eared cousins the Nelfs will probably recognise this layout as very similar (an almost direct copy) of how Natures Grasp run, and it's worked damn fine for them. Not only do they hold the monopoly on most, if not all serious/traditional Nelf RPers, but they're the leading edge out there when it comes to anything Nelf related and will be the first point of contact in case the Nelfs are ever needed to be involved in Alliance matters.

This isn't me coming into this thread, kicking over your sandcastles, telling you you're all wrong and should follow me. Heck, the last person I would want you to follow is me (because it's a known fact that I don't often play well with others). What this is, is me saying that whilst I appreciate what you're trying to do, I don't see it working, and here's my own idea on how we could get things running smoothly in Silvermoon for the RP'ers that still cling to serious Belf RP.

I appreciate that this won't be an option to some people due to personal reasons, or just not wanting to give up their level 25 guild perks and all their hard work/cheevos, but I ask those guys to consider it. Hell we already have a 25 guild that speaks/acts on behalf of most Sin'dorei RPers, the Sin Belore, and if they were to restructure themselves to embrace that sort of framework then I'd snap their hand off if they offered me a place, but that's just me dreaming again.

See what you can do guys, and if you think I'm completely off the mark and want to continue with this Council thing then by all means, but please just give my 'ideas' a thought, and refine them however you all see fit.

I think you've missed the entire point of the Council.
It is to create a background to RP in.
Let me give a small example, the RP in Strikes bar is very enjoyable, because there is a bartender present, familiar customers. It adds a sense of immersion to actually have a person pouring the drinks, to be able to interact and talk to this bartending person, and fel, if you want a special drink on the menu, ask him nicely enough IC and it will be possible, and that drink if spiffy enough will very likely survive your character.

Now, let's say you're into RP, and would like to roleplay a bartender, what is cooler, that you just suddenly enter an empty bar, and claim your char was hired there for three nights a week, or that you IC actually go trough the process of the interview, get to know the routine IC, and play it out entirely, in character?

Same goes for bloodknights, you can be a self proclaimed bloodknight, but wouldn't it be much cooler if you actually squired for a more experienced bloodknight for a while? Later actually being able to tell tales that IC happened, your personal experiences of how you eventually were knighted?

These things cannot happen without a background though, people playing the bloodknight mentor, or the bar owner.

Now imagine you are roleplaying a character, in the city of Silvermoon.
You get into a conflict, and actually end up drawing a blade and stab someone.
The NPC guards won't do anything, yet if you end up stabbing someone in the middle of a city IC normally there would be consequences.

Without a solid organisation OOC, such as the council and the bloodknights, random RP-er who happens to be a paladin will run over, turn into the self proclaimed head of the bloodknights, and decide that you get your head cut off.

The alternative, is a background which those partaking in the Council, and Bloodknights are trying to set.
Offering IC motivations, and IC solutions to situations, rather then everyone just randomly making up what's easy for them at that point.

Not to "knock over your sandcastle" or anything, but first of all; Hedonistic, yes, blood elves are prone to such behaviour, but they still live under a totalitarian rule. Politics and ruling governments are the very -core- of what Blood Elf society is about. There -is- opression, and there are rules written in stone for what is and is not allowed to do. Having a council will not only help bring structure to the blood elven community, but it will also make SMC more alive, and help better immersion, of what Blood Elven society is really like, from a Lore point of view.

Second, not only is running a guild like you suggested far too big a job, but people will have different ideas of what things should be like. Better then, to let them play in different sandboxes, rather than having over 9000 different opinions and arguments on how the "guild" should be ruled.

Thirdly, if people were to follow your ideas and your visions of how RP'ing a Blood Elf should be done, SMC would be reduced to little more than a brothel, where ERP would happen openly in the middle of a tavern... Forgive me if I don't take your ideas very seriously.

The idea of the council has been in the works for a while now, and frankly, I find it a little half-arsed that you pop up with all this negativity after the first meeting, which was basically just an introduction, rather than try to get involved from the get-go. The council has been made, and the general reviews have been positive. So your little attempt at speaking on behalf of others, don't really bother us that much.

The Council has absolutely no intention of ruining others' RP, but we will attempt to create a Quel'Thalas that is a worthy place for RP, and not merely a place to lol about and get a pixelated hard-on.

Without being rude, this council will change nothing and will do none of the things that you have related to.

I've reread your post twice now, and I still don't see how pouring drinks in Strikes bar relates to -anything- that the Council is or will be doing.

Also:

Without a solid organisation OOC, such as the council and the bloodknights, random RP-er who happens to be a paladin will run over, turn into the self proclaimed head of the bloodknights, and decide that you get your head cut off.

A little over dramatic, no?

And you're honestly telling me that this little gathering of 8 RP'ers will stop lollers from doing this?

Think about it, what was broken and needed to be fixed? Everyone worth their salt is already aware of the BK's, and Knight-Lady Tiffane, and despite the Sin Belore going into a reclusion as of late, people still know who they are. I'm still not seeing what the issue was before, and why this council needs to be put in place at all.

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Not to "knock over your sandcastle" or anything, but first of all; Hedonistic, yes, blood elves are prone to such behaviour, but they still live under a totalitarian rule.

Granted. Bloodthistle parties out in Eversong, Demons running about on the street at nights offering 'services' and whatever else, whilst those who 'speak out' against the government (in the Bazaar) are silenced, and we're constantly reminded that happiness is mandatory.

Politics and ruling governments are the very -core- of what Blood Elf society is about.

No, no it's not. It might well be for the Magisterium and its ilk, but the Farstriders were never politically active, and neither were the Knights (with the exception of Liadrin to an extent). Sure, go RP some politics but just don't force it into everyones face.

rules written in stone

Sorry for being beyond pedantic, but could you please clarify where this stone is?

Having a council will not only help bring structure to the blood elven community, but it will also make SMC more alive

By what? Turning RP'ers away because their morally slanted characters are no longer welcome here? Alright, I understand you might want to see the bad guys punished, but you clamp down on these bad guys and they're just going to walk or turn into lollers as they try to stand their ground against you. You kick the bad guys out, and soon the good guys will have nothing to RP. You will end up killing RP. Guaranteed.

Stormwind Council are doing the same thing, but they have the luxury of a constant stream of new RPers, we don't have that same luxury.

and help better immersion, of what Blood Elven society is really like, from a Lore point of view.

A great place to live for the wealthy and prude, but a damn boring place to live if you're an RPer. Do you really think those in the Shadowblades or the Vile Thorns will truly appreciate this new 'crackdown' on their morally slanted RP? Heck, you try enforcing the rules that Demons aren't allowed in a bar and suddenly your /w feed explodes from several RP'ers complaining that you're being an elitest jerk that doesn't want anyone to have any fun. Granted, being on the other end of the scale and telling people that they can do what they want only ends up winding up the select few that 'want' this change.

Thirdly, if people were to follow your ideas and your visions of how RP'ing a Blood Elf should be done, SMC would be reduced to little more than a brothel, where ERP would happen openly in the middle of a tavern... Forgive me if I don't take your ideas very seriously.

Excuse me? Not once did I mention how people should RP a Blood Elf, and you're being OTT here with your ideas of how I Roleplay. You aren't forgiven, in the slightest. I find that beyond rude, and I find you quite offensive when you can't detract what my character ICly does, and what I OOCly believe. Wind your neck in love, your bigotry is not welcome here.

The idea of the council has been in the works for a while now, and frankly, I find it a little half-arsed that you pop up with all this negativity after the first meeting, which was basically just an introduction, rather than try to get involved from the get-go. The council has been made, and the general reviews have been positive. So your little attempt at speaking on behalf of others, don't really bother us that much.

Is that so? I've been watching all the while this has been going on, and quietly I've had my only little rants and raves in the corner. You guys want to go ahead with this, that's fine. As for the general reviews after your introductory session? Well, you can't really mess up a meet and greet can you, but we'll see how this goes.

The Council has absolutely no intention of ruining others' RP, but we will attempt to create a Quel'Thalas that is a worthy place for RP, and not merely a place to lol about and get a pixelated hard-on.

Again with the talk of ERP, is it just me or are you obsessed? Silvermoon was never broken before, and despite earlier claiming that you will be "creating better immersion" by being "oppressive" you now claim to be not intended to ruin other peoples RP. Well, we'll see, we'll see.

I've glanced through this ongoing argument/discussion, and the first thing I thought when Raene posted, was "is she saying Blood Elves are sex-happy hippies?"...

Anyway. Being someone who's been considering to roll Horde one day or another, some structure would be nice, thus I agree with Shandrea/Nar'Gaya.

Hah, alright it might have come off that way but trust me, we were just the right level of 'oppressive' before.

There was structure, there was peace, and there was mutual understanding between the majority of RP'ers on how things were run.

Nothing was broken, yet this councils one goal seems to be to just crack down even harder and make it intolerable for people to RP in.

You are being rude, very rude, just stating that you are not in front of your post does not change anything about that.

You are just being horrible to everyone that is trying to contribute anything to the Silvermoon community, claiming they are trying to break it down and are trying to be oppressive. We have never stated such and you are missing the entire point of the Council, which is most of all a point of contact, a means for RP on a political scale. You cannot interract with NPCs, but now you can go to the Council and RP with them. It is something to add to the general scheme of things, and I believe guild that choose to be outlaws could have very fun RP trying to work around the officials of Silvermoon.

I think you are being very rude to Kristeas, whom has spent a huge amount of time on setting things up and not letting a single point go undiscussed, planning out everything very carefully and in my opinion just being generally awesome for his contribution. Yet you barge in and go: Lol, this aint gonna work you guys! I believe that to be very disrespectful towards him and everyone that tried to make this work.

I think this is a horrible display of character from your side, and it truely pains me to see you make such an effort of hating on what others do. Had you taken part in the discussion, I would not have made this post.

We could argue all day Emrys, but we both know it will get us nowhere.

I won't be making apologies, or excuses and I could sit here for hours bringing up posts and dialogue that's scattered around here on this forum that argues my point but what's the use when you will skim over my post and just go out of your way to decry me by cherry picking quotes that continue to vilify me. I don't know what I have done in the past to deserve your ire, but whatever.

(As a Side Note: Thanks for whining to Tiff about me 'abusing' Solanum ICly, and trying to get me in trouble ICly, it kind of backfired when nothing had happened ICly and you'd once again taken OOC and confused it with IC.)

As for your mention of Kristeas, by all means go for it, but if he feels that I've offended him, let him speak on his behalf instead of trying even harder to make me out to be a villian.

First things first, Strikes bar is location, where there is a "background" in the sense of a bartender, that you can interact with, whom can become part of ones RP, meaning more immersion, the same goes for a Council being present that makes a point of creating an interactive background.

Raene wrote:We could argue all day Emrys, but we both know it will get us nowhere.

I won't be making apologies, or excuses and I could sit here for hours bringing up posts and dialogue that's scattered around here on this forum that argues my point but what's the use when you will skim over my post and just go out of your way to decry me by cherry picking quotes that continue to vilify me. I don't know what I have done in the past to deserve your ire, but whatever.

(As a Side Note: Thanks for whining to Tiff about me 'abusing' Solanum ICly, and trying to get me in trouble ICly, it kind of backfired when nothing had happened ICly and you'd once again taken OOC and confused it with IC.)

As far as invoking her ire, I'm just going to give a few tips what you may have done to piss her off.
-The stream of offences when you were butthurt, because she pointed out you were making laws up on the spot and had trouble RPing with someone that ignores the established laws in favour of whatever he finds convenient to make up.
-The eight to ten letter futher serving only to offend and accuse following this.
-The fact you were lying when I was talking to you about the situation, lying about what she said while during the previous conversation she was sitting next to me and I watched on her screen what you wrote.
-You making a huge point out of slandering me behind my back to people, not just IC which I have no problem with, but also trying very hard OOC.
-You lying about her on the forum.
-You falsely accusing her of mixing IC and OOC, which is exactly what you are doing.

I could go on for a long long time with this list, but I think you are mentally able to understand how you pissed her off by now.

I've come to the conclusion that you are not so dumb you don't get what you are doing wrong.
It all boils down that you can get away with being a total cunt so far, and that thus you find it perfectly viable to keep acting like it.

Personally, I am not fond of this bullshit, if you're still butthurt about the whole situation OOC'ly I'd like to you address me personally.
We could talk about it, and settle it.
What I do mind is you for hours long trying to disrupt the council, trying to piss on the Vengeful members present because you're still butthurt, and bothering everyone with it.
I also mind you slandering me behind my back.

So either grow a set and a spine and speak up to me if you want to settle this, or crawl back where-ever you came from till you can actually be constructive and honest.

To all others whom had to read this, sorry about the long off-topic post.
It may shed some light on why Senariul was so eager to question the abilities and choice of the Vengeful members present.

Do yourself a favour and delete that post. Neither of us need to get in crap over this. I've read it, and I'll reply later in a private message.