Current state of DB RP

Guild perks were the dumbest thing ever, and have really screwed over smaller guilds, yup.

Drustai wrote:

Aldranin wrote:It isn't late in the expansion and I have to say I've noticed a massive drop in it too. But I know nothing of Kalimdor so I would be talking Eastern Kingdoms.

I never said it was 'late' into the expansion ("this late into the expansion" doesn't mean "it's late into the expansion", it means "at this point of time in the expansion"), only that activity typically flares up just before and just after the release of a new expansion, and then drops over time, especially after the next expansion is announced.

Have to say, I've heard that excuse for when cata launched, months after Cata, last tier WotLK and now middle of the expansion. The excuse doesn't really cut it!

And double post but cba editing.

@ Corleth

Equally who doesn't want to be part of a Chapter of Inquisitors who agressively preach their faith? Or a shady band of cultists plotting aggressively to attain power and fortune? If I hadn't already had a concept in mind when I joined the server I'd have been all over the Chapter like a rash - as Sophyra can attest.

Lots of menial tasks with no reward was what our guild was built on. You weren't a ninja, you weren't the seventh legion, you weren't a religious fanatic, or evil, or whatever, you were there to polish your armour and stand behind Tarvik when the situation called for it. RP is what you make of it, or in the case of a guild leader what you make of it for other people. You can make even the most menial task exciting if you create the impression that it matters.

Guild Perks have made it more difficult, but as my behaviour towards the end of the Seal's life proved, anyone who was in the guild for the perks I didn't want in the guild. I don't want casual RPers. Casual RPers are aligned with evil in my books - when hyperbole comes into play, anyway. If you're aiming to recruit casual RPers who are in it for the perks you'll end up with a guild list full of players who never RP.

The Blades for Hire played mercenaries without what draw a lot of RPers towards military RP, discipline and an authentic experiance. They ran a bar, but didn't get to RP in the Command Centre. What the Blades for Hire actually had in their favour was the best officer team I've seen in a guild. A team who created several server wide events a month. Worked ceaselessly to create 'mercenary' events for their guild, and most importantly possessed the charisma to attract and retain members.

If people intend to accuse them of aggressive recruitment then I don't really know what to say. They recruited exclusively through their forums, even if they did advertise in game. The true masters of General Spam recruitment Legacy of Dawn/Stormwind Regiment can hardly be described as strangling other guilds recruitment, can they?

Everything is possible if you put the work in. The Seal got along just fine without any forum advertising at all. We got out there and did our thing and relied upon people being attracted to the concept of brown nosing the nobility.

Most concepts by their very nature are broad and homogenised. Mercenaries, military guilds, Light guilds, noble guilds, guard guilds, dark/evil guilds. They're all pretty open concepts that almost any character can join. And the vast majority of them are all looking for the same type of character to recruit. It's true that an aspect of marketing comes into play. Portreying your concept in the best light. But if you cannot deliver on your promises then you will be unable to retain members and that is what ultimately kills guilds or concepts, promising what you cannot deliver.

In the end it all comes down to a lack of ability.

I didn't mention Blades for Hire about aggressive recruitment, I just said aggressive recruitment is by no means difficult.

Broad, homogenized guilds aren't a problem. In fact, it only helps keeping the community connected OOC'ly.

Belief that the kind of IC organizations you can take part in is defined by your guild tag is the problem.

Aldranin wrote:I didn't mention Blades for Hire about aggressive recruitment, I just said aggressive recruitment is by no means difficult.

Except that it is.

What you're talking about isn't aggressive recruitment. General Chat/Forum spamming is lazy recruitment, and usually pretty unsuccessful recruitment. Aggressive recruitment is putting your face out there, randomly RPing everywhere and hosting event after event, showing you're an awesome active guild. Membership will flow in as a result.

If you're just spamming General, and can't/don't actually back up any of the things you claim, then even if you get members, you'll lose them fast.

Aggressive recruitment is about activity, not about how many times you spam chat/the Registry forum. Word of mouth and in-your-face exposure is the best recruitment tool available.

It may be unsucessful for you, but it certainly has gotten plenty of people from other servers/newer rpers out of the guilds i've been in

It gets you known to a much wider audience. Yes getting your face out there is a great recruitment tool but I wouldn't call that aggressive recruitment, just well getting yourselves out there. Any guild can have solid RP, but if one's more seen, be it forums or chats or in game RP, then that guild will probably find members easier.

Aldranin wrote:It may be unsucessful for you, but it certainly has gotten plenty of people from other servers/newer rpers out of the guilds i've been in

I've merely noticed that the largest guilds are always the most active guilds, the ones with the leadership going out there and hosting event after event, keeping their members happy. Other people looking on from the outside go "wow, that's cool, I want to be a part of that", while members that are a part of it tell their friends, "you should join, it's very active here". And thus the member count rises.

It gets you known to a much wider audience. Yes getting your face out there is a great recruitment tool but I wouldn't call that aggressive recruitment, just well getting yourselves out there. Any guild can have solid RP, but if one's more seen, be it forums or chats or in game RP, then that guild will probably find members easier.

Which is why I said RP that gets your face out there into the wider community, not RP in your own private bunker.

And General/Trade spam doesn't get you a wider audience. Many RPers I know turn off their General/Trade chats to avoid the spam in RP. I know that I never see those General chat advertisements, because I don't have my General/Trade on. Maybe you'll get the occasional RPer or OOCer interested, but not much.

You need to prove to people that you're an interesting guild, not just say it. Show, don't tell.


It's like getting a job. Sending your resume to a million different companies doesn't get you hired. Directly calling them, showing up at their work to talk to the management about the job, and overall showing them that you're interested, that you're skilled, and that you'll be a valuable asset will be far more likely to land you a job than a spamming a million companies with a piece of paper telling them how awesome you are.


My joining Dreadhowl on my alt, and my desire to potentially create an alt for and join, say, Blades for Hire or Dieudonne Seal (though I ended up not creating a char for either) was purely out of my having seen them in RP and enjoying what I saw. Never from their advertisements.

Drustai wrote:

Aldranin wrote:I didn't mention Blades for Hire about aggressive recruitment, I just said aggressive recruitment is by no means difficult.

Except that it is.

What you're talking about isn't aggressive recruitment. General Chat/Forum spamming is lazy recruitment, and usually pretty unsuccessful recruitment. Aggressive recruitment is putting your face out there, randomly RPing everywhere and hosting event after event, showing you're an awesome active guild. Membership will flow in as a result.

If you're just spamming General, and can't/don't actually back up any of the things you claim, then even if you get members, you'll lose them fast.

Aggressive recruitment is about activity, not about how many times you spam chat/the Registry forum. Word of mouth and in-your-face exposure is the best recruitment tool available.

This...we do not actually 'recruit' in any way actively, 99% of our new recruits are those that have just been about the bar and interacted with us or ran into us out on jobs.

For those that go on about us being casual etc; we are not and have never been a guild with a large amount of lore or 'concept' behind; we are a merc guild, simple as. However, that said, there are massive histories, aims, subplots, enemies and allies within that, all of which has been gained through constant rp and presence. People massively underestimate the work that goes into making the guild work, keeping tabs upon new members, keeping new IC 'jobs' coming in and so on, not even going into putting together server events etc. As Gen said it only works at all because the officers work together and communicate constantly.

The main thing I've found raising is a sort of bitterness and jadedness- which is understandable, explaining the same things to new players over and over, etc, can be draining, but is worth it upon the occasions you meet new players that really grasp on and flourish. The only way to remedy the problems people have bought up here is activity; if you want a change in the rp scene you have to work to be that change. Activity attracts activity and through that growth. But this is just my thoughts Take as you will, I personally haven't noticed a massive decrease in activity, although I have found the places that used to be centres of drop-in-or-out casual RP have become graveyards; Cath Sq for example rarely has anyone that I've seen, lately.

Drustai wrote:

Aldranin wrote:It may be unsucessful for you, but it certainly has gotten plenty of people from other servers/newer rpers out of the guilds i've been in

I've merely noticed that the largest guilds are always the most active guilds, the ones with the leadership going out there and hosting event after event, keeping their members happy. Other people looking on from the outside go "wow, that's cool, I want to be a part of that", while members that are a part of it tell their friends, "you should join, it's very active here". And thus the member count rises.

It gets you known to a much wider audience. Yes getting your face out there is a great recruitment tool but I wouldn't call that aggressive recruitment, just well getting yourselves out there. Any guild can have solid RP, but if one's more seen, be it forums or chats or in game RP, then that guild will probably find members easier.

Which is why I said RP that gets your face out there into the wider community, not RP in your own private bunker.

And General/Trade spam doesn't get you a wider audience. Many RPers I know turn off their General/Trade chats to avoid the spam in RP. I know that I never see those General chat advertisements, because I don't have my General/Trade on. Maybe you'll get the occasional RPer or OOCer interested, but not much.

You need to prove to people that you're an interesting guild, not just say it. Show, don't tell.


It's like getting a job. Sending your resume to a million different companies doesn't get you hired. Directly calling them, showing up at their work to talk to the management about the job, and overall showing them that you're interested, that you're skilled, and that you'll be a valuable asset will be far more likely to land you a job than a spamming a million companies with a piece of paper telling them how awesome you are.

At the first point, numbers are going to affect activity. That's just an understatement.

At the second, that you know maybe, but I'd say way above half of the server have general/trade on, and since everyone is in a city anyway since there's nothing else to do gamewise, that's alot to see. It will definaitly affect it. If you don't do it, then you can only assume.

Aldranin wrote:At the first point, numbers are going to affect activity. That's just an understatement.

No. Active officers running events for their guilds, no matter the size of the guild, will determine activity. A small guild will swiftly gain members if it is very active. The activity doesn't come from numbers, the numbers come from activity.

A large guild that has its leadership die will not stay active. It will swiftly fall apart. Look at how quickly Dieudonne Seal died when its officers quit. Its large member base did not save it.


Activity breeds activity. Inactivity breeds inactivity.

I said affect, not determine. The chapter had a really active leadership at one stage with very little normal members. DoL was in a similar position. If people don't want to join then they won't.

Geneviève wrote:Equally who doesn't want to be part of a Chapter of Inquisitors who agressively preach their faith? Or a shady band of cultists plotting aggressively to attain power and fortune? If I hadn't already had a concept in mind when I joined the server I'd have been all over the Chapter like a rash - as Sophyra can attest.

A number of people actually, namely atheists I have encountered that do not wish to go anywhere near a concept based upon religious fundamentalism, but that is getting off-topic. Guilds such as the Dreadhowl Pack, who's only real criteria for joining is that you are a worgen, will obviously supersede any other RP guild in terms of numbers which has a more defined concept - next thing you know, there are more worgen roaming Stormwind in an evening of RP than there are more guards online in a week.

Geneviève wrote:Lots of menial tasks with no reward was what our guild was built on. You weren't a ninja, you weren't the seventh legion, you weren't a religious fanatic, or evil, or whatever, you were there to polish your armour and stand behind Tarvik when the situation called for it. RP is what you make of it, or in the case of a guild leader what you make of it for other people. You can make even the most menial task exciting if you create the impression that it matters.

I know that, and the first few weeks a characters time in the Chapter are literally built upon meanial tasks... though not all guilds are like the Chapter in that regard. The inquisitor concept requires that you are pro-active in your RP and create it for yourself, as opposed to having a guild leader do it for you, and a lot of people shy away from that in favour of a simpler role within one of the 'big guilds'.

Geneviève wrote:Guild Perks have made it more difficult, but as my behaviour towards the end of the Seal's life proved, anyone who was in the guild for the perks I didn't want in the guild. I don't want casual RPers. Casual RPers are aligned with evil in my books - when hyperbole comes into play, anyway. If you're aiming to recruit casual RPers who are in it for the perks you'll end up with a guild list full of players who never RP.

I am not talking about casual RPers that will join a guild specifically for the perks, but the ones that are swayed to the larger guild because of them. If random roleplayer sees a guild he interested in at level 3, and then a guild he likes at level 25, he is going to go with the level 25 guild; regardless of which concept ideally suits his character.

Geneviève wrote:A team who created several server wide events a month. Worked ceaselessly to create 'mercenary' events for their guild, and most importantly possessed the charisma to attract and retain members.

While I am totally at odds with the Blades' ('imo') gimmicky, repetitive, fast-food style events (come here, get your RP for the night, roleplay an event that will most likely contribute to very little character developement, bye bye!), I will admit they work hard on them, and create a buzz that draws people in.. but like I've said, I do not think these events are necessarily beneficial, or even interesting RP-wise. I won't even go into the hassle I've had getting a mercenary from them in the past, despite their large numbers... as that would be too ad hominem even for me.

Broad and homogenised RP guilds are not always a bad thing, but when there are guilds that represent what should be a small minority of people ICly, making use of mass-recruitment combined with a broad-concept, you get them outnumbering everyone else and are left with what should be a group of mercenaries being the largest guild present on a crusade - a holy war - to use a recent example.

Group mentality is also a factor, if a new rp'er sees tons of people RPing in a tavern, and then sees two priests praying in a Cathedral - there is a large chance he will wave his hand at the priests and go join which ever guild the tavern RP was revolving around.

The crux of my argument is that within Stormwind, there are too many guilds; many of which should be minority factions in an IC sense, employing very broad, very simple and in a way, generic concepts that immediately stand out to the new-comer due to their size, guild perks and recruiting methods, but are not representative of how I believe SW icly should be; making it harder for more individual guilds with 'deeper' concepts to recruit and remain stable.

Anyway, its time for me to sleep for the night.

Right up until the release of Skyrim I thought I noticed an increase in RP in Darnassus. Now it is hard for me to find people outside the guild to RP with. Well always have been due to my character but yeah. Not many non-graspers there. So quantity: no.

As for forums and IC story lines I think it is a high point in my wow carrier. Many strong, well played character's with interesting story lines surrounding Frost right now. I'm happy. So quality: yes.

Cendia wrote:
There are waaaay higher numbers than this.. Skyrim has had an effect the past week.. But beyond that. I dont know where you roleplay on the alliance side these days.. But that is way less than what I can count ^^

Drustai wrote:

Delidah / Scuzy wrote:I guess I'm the only one having fun, then?

Nope. Some of us are. TBH I really don't notice any drop in activity that isn't the standard for this late into an expansion. Then again, I don't spend much time in SW.

Pretty much my thoughts. I've seen nothing out of the ordinary. People come and go. If you're lacking RP or people to RP with, go out in the streets and find it. If you're here reading this you'll have an even easier time since you'll probably know your way around guilds and people in the community.

Well I've just got back a few months ago after a few years absence and from what i remember there's a fair bit more RP now than back then, it used to be pretty much entirely in Stormwind either in the Cathedral, the park or the Blade (if it was open) back then unless it was cultist RP, the Arathorians were just starting up in Stromguard and the Dwarves had just started doing something in Ironforge (this is as far as i recall... I've done a lot of drinking in the intervening time) so it's pretty good these days from what I've seen

If people are tired of the Cathedral square and don't really know where else to hang around save for the seedier taverns, the area in front of the Slaughtered Lamb looks pretty cozy. I think most character types could find a justification for being around there.

well ima pop in my two coins.. I joind like 1 month after wrath was releaced I was suckerd into rp 5 months into wrath.. rp it was very easy to find rp and random rp.. cathy, the canals and DD was always full of unguilded rp'ers.. There was much rp to be had.. there were a few quiet periods but it remaind stable till just after cata's releace then it plumited half of the people on my frends list have perma quit wow (all rp'ers) and indeed there are only realy now two or three large guilds around, I have only been in 2 counts of random rp since catas releace Only 2 Most rp is guilded or guild afileated now as a result the lesser guilds do struggle more.. In all I have seen a noticable drop in the number of those attempting to rp..

I have seen a small influcx of new rp'ers But this is vastly outweighd By the older rp'ers that have left

I admit i've not RP'ed at all really since I went and came back from Norway, I went there a month ago so about a month now without Roleplay... And in honesty I just havn't had the motivation to pick up on Roleplay, mostly due to my future in the world of IRL taking over.

So there's my decline in my part of the RP community.

While I am totally at odds with the Blades' ('imo') gimmicky, repetitive, fast-food style events (come here, get your RP for the night, roleplay an event that will most likely contribute to very little character developement, bye bye!), I will admit they work hard on them, and create a buzz that draws people in.. but like I've said, I do not think these events are necessarily beneficial, or even interesting RP-wise. I won't even go into the hassle I've had getting a mercenary from them in the past, despite their large numbers... as that would be too ad hominem even for me. Razz

If you had just wanted a merc.. Not with these criterias:
Prefferably male.
Not someone I have roleplayed with before.

And ask us officers of who we find fitting.. And we dont find any of our merks fitted to actually aid you on that said subject at that current time who would be .. skilled enough in that particular thing icly.. That you -oocly- did not already know or had roleplayed with.. Then yes... It was not we who could not help you. We offered suggestions but they did not fit your criteria or was active enough for that to work out icly..

In the regards of this:
While I am totally at odds with the Blades' ('imo') gimmicky, repetitive, fast-food style events (come here, get your RP for the night, roleplay an event that will most likely contribute to very little character developement, bye bye!)

I can speak on behalf of most of our Blades without flinching now.. That we do have our own plotlines, between our members, between other people of other guilds that does indeed, give a lot of character development. I will also on the spot admit too that we dont have enough time to spend with all members as we would like to either.. And our members need to work for their ranks, prove themselves worthy.. And for the highest ic rank beyond officer they even need to apply for it.. icly.. and oocly.. and it contains a massive amount of work..

I am glad you admit we work hard on our events. For right now.. I am not sure what to say. And I will leave it at that.. With only one add. I have been with the Chapter through good times, hard times, dead times.. And I see no less or more character development, lack of seriousness to peoples roleplay in the Blades than what I did with the Chapter. The difference is the concept.. Not the character development.. We all grow.. We all learn. There are equally as many pages filling the books of the Blades, guides, ic books, personal ic training taking hours for each time.. Real hours..

I confess there is not a religious background for the Blades. But.. Without being a member, without going through the hardship and demands we put on our members. We work to train them up, in their knowledge of not just how to roleplay, but the lore, the limitations, the options and creativity of their own abilities, skills, their roleplay. We dont just throw events that is come and go.

And I am very happy with this guild. I am and will always be very happy about the Chapter too.

We dont have - that- many active members online everyday.. We dont just have them standing around the bar all the time.. And trust me.. It is equally hard at times to make people in the Blades, do their work and make rp of their own as it was with the Chapter. We dont hand them things to do all the time But we make sure they know they have to make rp of their own and they are good at it Sometimes that means massive trouble, just like with the Chapter and sometimes its simply glorious.. Just like with the Chapter. Just to repoint this out: This is no slandering off the Chapter, this is no attempt of a flamewar.. I am a former officer of the guild, and I love it to bits and pieces. But sometimes.. People even if they dont like a certain guilds concept.. Its wise to check them out properly before claiming things thats so far off as I in my opinion believe a lot of the statments about the menitoned guilds by me here is.. Ravenholt I dont know that much about I fear oocly or icly..

Guilds such as the Dreadhowl Pack, who's only real criteria for joining is that you are a worgen, will obviously supersede any other RP guild in terms of numbers which has a more defined concept - next thing you know, there are more worgen roaming Stormwind in an evening of RP than there are more guards online in a week.

No.. Its all about the quality of their rp, the activity, their events which is filled with character development, pack development.. Not to mention a good and well handled leadership. Their leader and officers working together in a good way.
Which is appealing to people.


The Dreadhowl Pack is a guild who doesnt just tolerate anything either.. So stating the only criteria is that they must be worgen? Is a bit far fetched to me..

In addition to this.. The guild level of the Blades perk wise is only a level 14 guild. And I do believe we actually were only one level above the Chapters for when I first joined the Blades. So its not like we are activly working for perks..

And in an IC sense.. There would be over 200.000 people living in Stormwind. More houses, more bars.. More guards.. More of most.. But it doesnt change the fact that no matter the guild... Its not always about the concept.. Its usually about the interest, the activity and.. the leadership.

Which has been mentioned and cant be said enough.. Leaders must be online.. Officers must be online.. And people who are fit, must be allowed to handle situations should they rise within limits..

Which also means one must train, work with, communicate well with the members of a guild to improve the members, improve the leadership and improve yourself..

For without that.. No guild will have people who can handle what ever comes their way, and most times people dont handle it too well anyways.. Which is the same for all guilds out there, we all have flaws.. But without the work, and I am not saying Corleth forexample have not worked, for he has worked very -very- hard for the Chapter. But thats not the point here. My point is.. One needs good communication - good leadership - devotedness to improve the rp immersion for all in the guild and people around.

Only problem I see is over protection of peoples chars. It is at a state where you cant have a good old brawl without qq and we accept too much to avoid serious IC results of the actions.

I fairly much agree to what Cendia has posted up there. A dwindeling number of RPers? No. A dwindeling number of known RPers? Yes. Just take a look out there. Blades for Hire started off very small. Remained active and true, formed joint events and just grew onwards from there.
The Dreadhowl Pack? I remember chatting with Niara.. Went through many bumps on the road before taking off. They kept consistant events running though and lifted it right off the ground.
The Helmsley house (I hope I spelled it right) are litterally a lifting off like a rocket into outer space. AND gaining members almost daily. Which defies most points stated above already. (Great work by the way you lot. Keep your stuff rolling.)
It's all about getting your mind wrapped around your plans, sticking with it and being prepared to drag people through it if necessary.

Either way.. Those who claim it is difficult to find RP ain't quite looking nor trying. If you come to me saying you roam Stormwind.. Or enter any of the running bars & just stand there is trying to find RP? Wrong. How does one find RP? By initiating it. Something I haven't seen many people do. Also, I believe people are VERY picky on who to RP with. Or just the fact people see someone they know, gasp and then run off to super secret location X. No, that won't trigger RP. It's secluding yourself.
A random bypasser can overhear conversations, get interested and BOOM! RP.
You can form a mini event, where your character is injured, whichever, get help BOOM! RP.
You can simply enter a bar, buy drinks for everyone to celebrate random thing X. BOOM! RP.

And these are just few of the extremely many ways to get RP. And if someone doesn't use captions? So? Doesn't mean the person ain't a sound RPer. If the person makes a few errors? So? Do you prefer turning around and going all bitter of how there's no RP?

What I'm saying is people need to be a lot LESS critic about what they can get to RP, how they get to RP and just get on with it. People come and go, it's how everything works in this world.

I'm nearly always IC'ly free running across the rooftops of SW, and the random emotes and chatter coming from the buildings I see makes it worth it.
I'm not a known RP'er as I tend to just RP with myself, and obviously the SI:7 NPC's (maybe cos i'm not in a RP guild?), so from my point of view there
is an ebb and flow with RP (in SW at least), but overall I feel there is enough around.

Nathaniel wrote:I fairly much agree to what Cendia has posted up there. A dwindeling number of RPers? No. A dwindeling number of known RPers? Yes. Just take a look out there. Blades for Hire started off very small. Remained active and true, formed joint events and just grew onwards from there.
The Dreadhowl Pack? I remember chatting with Niara.. Went through many bumps on the road before taking off. They kept consistant events running though and lifted it right off the ground.
The Helmsley house (I hope I spelled it right) are litterally a lifting off like a rocket into outer space. AND gaining members almost daily. Which defies most points stated above already. (Great work by the way you lot. Keep your stuff rolling.)
It's all about getting your mind wrapped around your plans, sticking with it and being prepared to drag people through it if necessary.

Either way.. Those who claim it is difficult to find RP ain't quite looking nor trying. If you come to me saying you roam Stormwind.. Or enter any of the running bars & just stand there is trying to find RP? Wrong. How does one find RP? By initiating it. Something I haven't seen many people do. Also, I believe people are VERY picky on who to RP with. Or just the fact people see someone they know, gasp and then run off to super secret location X. No, that won't trigger RP. It's secluding yourself.
A random bypasser can overhear conversations, get interested and BOOM! RP.
You can form a mini event, where your character is injured, whichever, get help BOOM! RP.
You can simply enter a bar, buy drinks for everyone to celebrate random thing X. BOOM! RP.

And these are just few of the extremely many ways to get RP. And if someone doesn't use captions? So? Doesn't mean the person ain't a sound RPer. If the person makes a few errors? So? Do you prefer turning around and going all bitter of how there's no RP?

What I'm saying is people need to be a lot LESS critic about what they can get to RP, how they get to RP and just get on with it. People come and go, it's how everything works in this world.

Believe it or not. This guy is right.
If you follow the above guidelines you will find UNLIMITED ROLEPLAY!!!!