'Current State of DB' - solutions?

Inspired by Crojwin's thread

It is an early sunday morning, I already had my coffee and done shitloads of work (yes, on a sunday), so it is time for something profound. I've scanned Crojwin's thread, and overall I think we all agree that things are not going so well. So I decided to make a separate thread for possible solutions. To inaugurate this, I am posting my view:

First of all, the things I think a Role-playing Community needs in order to flourish:
Critical Mass of people Role-playing in roughly the same area in order to create a reliable source of Random Roleplay.
Openess of Role-play, RP must go beyond the closed circles and personal stories and should be approached with an attitude that even if some story started within a circle or as a personal RP, potentially anybody should be able to join it.
Safe environment to take risks and play the game at high stakes without the fear of drama. All the great stories of the past were all played at 'high stakes' with a lot of risk and conflict (Zaraj's civil war, Chapter's invasion of Duskwood)
Creative leadership of guild leaders, officers but also 'veteran' role-players who can either set some sort of standard by example (like Dorik did), organize role-play and drive the stories onwards with some sense of direction.
Stable guilds with active members, reliable leaders and stable chain of command. If there is drama between the officers, or they are not talking, it is nearly impossible to organize anything worthwhile with that guild.
Regular events which are open to the community at large. Council-meetings, balls, campaigns
Fresh Ideas , something which is hard to find after 6 years of DB.
Intertwined guilds and characters result in stories that go beyond guilds and break the circles. Best examples of this are Dark vs Light or Law vs Crime role-play.

So, based on that view I think -every- single one of these points has failed in some way.

Critical Mass & Fresh Ideas
The only way to bring Fresh Ideas without getting any new blood, is to shake the community in some way and make different parts of it interract in new ways; parts that have not interracted before. Yes, here I am again...I am suggesting a Big Bad Hub, at least for a few months to pull through this and survive SW:TOR. Suddenly having the community converge on a hub will create the critical mass needed for random role-play, and hopefully motivate people to go and grab some quick RP instead of hovering above AH and chatting on OOC channels. More people RPing will cause more people to RP...and all that. Being forced together will create new conflicts and fresh stories as well.

Openess & Safe Environment
These points are hardest to fix I think. In the 'old days' the high density of RPers made sure that no story could stay secret for long, and since everything was new and exciting, and there were virtually no vested interests people were less likely to cause massive drama which makes every risky RP undesirable. The only way to fix it, I think, is if every guild or major role-playing circle takes the effort to make somewhat regular updates of what they are up to, at least for a month. For instance, in the old days I would've known why the Blades for Hire are suddenly not in their bar anymore. Today I am hard pressed to find anybody who knows that they infact left on an IC mission to the Blasted Lands. Rumor Mill is 'ideal' for this sort of thing, it just needs more use, more attention and more structure.

Safety would ideally be addressed ...oh yes, the buzzword...if leaders&officers of different guilds spoke to each other regularly and so could solve all points of tension pro-actively. The community at large should be asking critical questions, and be receptive to these questions. For instance, the community -must- ask "Does it make sense for the Chapter to be all fanatical on the streets of Stormwind, wouldn't the King oust them?" and I should have the decency to see it as a genuine attempt to make RP better, not an attack on the guild, and find way to answer that or agree that something is amiss and fix it. Lately, most 'critical' threads devolve into ULTIMATE DRAMA. My fix for this:

I am a moderator, and I like discussing role-play. If you want to create a critical thread and keep it drama-free, send the thread to me in a PM before posting it. I will review it, suggest some corrections if I think it might cause drama and help you set down the 'rules' for discussing it AND enforce those rules once the thread is posted.

Intertwined Guilds and Characters
This should 'solve itself' through critical mass and openess. If many people role-play together regularly, and are open with their role-play, the boundaries of circles and guilds will break easily. Alternatively I can suggest a 'self-moderating' rule of trying to find a way to role-play with some other guild every two weeks, like Aleric's community of Light did. For instance, one time CHapter does something with the Cartel. Over two weeks with the Regiment. Over two weeks with Blades for Hire.

Stable guilds & creative leadership
There is no way we can 'break into' other guilds and fix them, but we can do something about 'leadership' overall. Every segment of the community (say Goodies and Baddies) need creative leadership. By that I don't mean somebody to shout, give orders, dictate rules and direct role-play. I mean an active veteran RPer with creativity and an ability to generate RP around him. You always knew that if you wanted Goodie RP 'organized', you could go to Fortesgue and it would happen. In the Olde Days, you went to the Olde Council. Again, this isn't something that can be solved with a magical patch...but some people MUST step forwards and become visibly active.


At last...

We are heading towards the MoP. Alliance is apparently a unified faction, with strong leadership and political stability. Perhaps we can introduce this with some long, preparation-RP which will act as a red thread to hold the whole thing together for a while.

We choose Stormwind as The Big Bad Hub (Stormwind doesn't mean Stormwind City only, it can include Westbrook, Azora, Northshire, Lakeshire, Darkshire - you name it). Humans are in Stormwind for obvious reasons, other races can arrive as part of some grand Alliance 'army-raising project'. This can be framed as Alliance Leadership trying to make the military of various races more used to each other and working together, training together and fighting together. This of course will not mean that role-play elsewhere has to DIE, there can be regular expeditions to Kalimdor or Lordaeron that take several guilds and last a few weeks, but in the end 'Stormwind' will be the headquarters. It will be a sacrafice for non-Stormwind guilds, but in turn the Stormwind guilds will 'sacrifice' as well as new groups will need to have a say in the matters.

I know it sounds crazy, perhaps even a downgrade for some people, but I sincerely believe that a single Hub is what we need at this moment, even if only lasts a month or two.

Melnerag, you are my hero! This is exactly what Drustai and I were discussing the other day.

I have some things to do before I can even think of replying properly to this.

I was already waiting for your voice, and this is a good post. In my own post I should've not only talk about what's wrong but indeed as well how to fix.

I agree that a one big RP hub could be really great and interesting again.

As long as that hub isn't SW.
Eww.

Personally, for me Stormwind is a last resort rp area. Sorry, but I won't be moving my rp there until it's the bitter end

On the other side of things, I don't think you really need to be too worried about SwToR - I only know two about two rpers who plan on stopping wow to play it.

No other place offers sufficient 'space' and variety of buildings to support a hub. You can consider Ironforge perhaps. So it really is Stormwind or Ironforge I am afraid.

Stormwind is crowded with OOCers, and is really quite a dull and bland city.
Ironforge would be preferrable.

For the bringing the guilds together part why not do another big Holy mass like what used to happen at least once a month at one point, there used to be a fair number of different guilds coming along and it tended to spawn random RP afterwards while getting people to know each other, even the cultists used to come along to do some spying (had this idea a while but not been online enough to suggest it to anyone)

I think in the end no matter what hub we pick, there will be those who will dislike it...and there will be those who will have to find a most ridiculous of reasons to move HQ. So yes, it will not be 'without sacrifices'

I like this as it has potential, but I'm a relatively new comer so ideally I'd like see a list
of guilds/characters that briefly explain what they do, so others could contact them for events?

My warrior is a trainee Blacksmith. If anyone feels like having some Arathorian steel forged, Kaina's got it covered. \o/ Then people might visit Stromgarde more often. Might get you some travelling RP to boot.

I think SW works as the best sub, as much as I hate it, because many guilds already use it as a hub. It'd be a lot easier to put all the RP there, rather than trying to get those guilds to uproot and move.

Current state of RP - On alliance side?

Ppfth! And i read through your whole post.

Ragaresh wrote:Current state of RP - On alliance side?

Ppfth! And i read through your whole post.

Thank me! Now you can avoid making the same mistakes on Horde side and never even come to this!

From what I gather from your post, Melnerag, is that you claim that all we need is proper leadership and a decent hub?

Decent hub
Openess&Lack of Drama
Creative leadership...willing to play at high stakes and take risks!

Pretty much it, yes.

We tried a huge hub a while ago, as some of you may remember. The aim was to remove the majority of guilds from Stormwind and relocate them to appropriate areas of Elwynn. We felt it gave everyone more space and a much more interesting backdrop.

Ironforge was also proposed at the time. Pushed for mostly by me because I love the place so much. But in the end a lot of guilds complained their recruitment was suffering as a result.

I confess our roster exploded about that time, probably due to the choice of our own little area within Elwynn.

But any hub has to deal, not only with the drama caused by uprooting a guild, but also the inevitable bitterness of some guild leaders when they see other guilds growing perhaps at the expense of theirs.


The above being held true I still think a new hub is exactly what Defias Brotherhood needs. Stormwind is wonderful but I've never liked it's...'feel'? It's the very worst of Warcraft lore, gleaming and wonderful. It's only negatives a homeless guy making quips about credit and an old woman who has to fetch water for her family. It has no depth and since the Dwarven District had it's atmosphere ruined has really lost all appeal to me.

Elwynn can be described as similarly lacking in depth, quests suggest that Stormwind isn't really a feudal society and the farmers own their own land. That said I completely ignore the lore on many more important and significant matters so creating a grittier Kingdom through the power of imagination has never been a problem for me.

My preferences have always been Duskwood and Lakeshire. But then we're forced to address the issue of potentially disruptive PvP. The occassioanl attack is fine. But all it takes is for one guild to take it to far and suddenly we're open to three hours of epic flying mount hit and run herp derpness every night. Which may not bother us PvP pro's *flex* but no matter how good we are RP has been disrupted and this will, rightly or wrongly, put people off the Hub.


Openess and Lack of Drama is tricky. Back when the Seal were guards we had a channel filled up with known criminals and our guards. The purpose of this channel was that when 'random assaultee of the hour' ran in and reported a crime or group fo criminals for something we could ask in this channel and straight away get confirmation that they were meta-gaming or indeed the report was accurate and we should act on it. Sure, it added an aspect of meta-gaming to our own RP. But crucially it stopped us barging into the...whatever that brewary is called, on a daily basis because someone with a chip on their shoulder thought they'd rat them out without the IC knowledge to do so. It made our RP run a lot smoother.

Something similar for the entire server -could- be a good idea. There are issues in and of itself. The closer you bring people the easier it is for them to loudly and very publically fall out. The Sha'tar had several channels devoted to this sort of thing and it completely ruined community cohesion rather than making it better.


Your last point really interests me. I think everyone would argue they're willing to play high stakes and take risks but subconciously always expect to win and won't allow for any other outcome. The Disciples of Light have to be the best example of this. It's an inbedded resistance to change.

I think overall people need to be more willing to kill off characters. Tarvik lasted a year before being murdered and when Tarvik (the player) and I return to the server Genevieve won't last long. Military and political characters especially need to be prepared to create flux within the community by taking one for the team and rolling a new character. People get attached to their characters, but from my experiance killing off a character in a fitting way once their 'story arc' is complete is really exciting and adds to the servers collective story in a much more meaningful way.

The same can be said for guilds but in this regard it's much more tricky. For banishment etc to work takes a lot of work from a guilds officer team but it can be done. The Seal grew over it's two month tenure in Lakeshire. We even built up a mini-hub around us. You may be banished, but if you can show your guild and the community there is RP to be had wherever you've gone then the experiance can be a positive one OOC, often more positive than if the banishment had never occured.


A hub has been tried before and failed for a variety of reasons. But it seems more important now than ever that it succeeds. Melnerag is objective and impartial above anyone else in this community and that's what this project will take to flourish.

I think people need to swallow their pride and bitterness and do this for the good of the server and for roleplay. I'm behind this idea 100%. I'd even stand in Dustwallow if it meant fixing this mess and pulling through the hard times ahead.

I think this is a great idea! Although i wouldn't really enjoy Stormwind City as the main hub. I'ts sort of our main hub now, but i think i't would be better with a smaller hub, like Elwynn Forest with all of those farms & shires, or perhaps Duskwood or Lakeshire.. There's so many opportunities..! Gilneas & Theramore would be great choices as well, but i doubt we could get enough people to move there because of several reasons, etc travelling..

I think, personally, that the biggest problem is making most/all of the RP'ers on our servers aware of our solutions.

Cyrdain wrote:I think people need to swallow their pride and bitterness

I don't really see how I'm being bitter or prideful? None of my characters are really suited to being in Stormwind at the moment, I don't really want to force them to do something ic for ooc reasons.

Itsy wrote:

Cyrdain wrote:I think people need to swallow their pride and bitterness

I don't really see how I'm being bitter or prideful? None of my characters are really suited to being in Stormwind at the moment, I don't really want to force them to do something ic for ooc reasons.

Then if everyone had your outlook, we'd get nowhere. We all can make reasons for relocating, it's not impossible.

But why -should- I move to Stormwind for my rp? I already get plenty on my characters when I want it, maybe because I'm more proactive in looking for it than some.

Nobody's forcing you. You can RP wherever you wish, eh?

Mhm. Nobody is forcing you, they're only asking. It's for the good of the server and the community. In the end if you don't care enough to help out, don't.