Shadow magic, Say whaaat?

by **Gesh** Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:19 pm

Most schools of magic within the game have some sort of set guidelines and rules of trade that apply to the player when they choose to roleplay their charecter channeling or practicing said school. Fel magic is addictive, Necromancy will eventually turn you undead and The Light comes to those who hold a great amount of faith in their actions.

Shadow magic has never really had that confirmation. It's just been thrown at every single villian we've fought as a sort of big shiny sign that demonstrates how EVULS DEY ARE, it doesn't hold any exact distinction or a peronal set of rules. So I thought it might be neat for us to pool together our ideas and start building a guideline for use.

First of all, let me explain the difference between class use of shadow. (In my personal opinion.)

Warlocks use Fel shadow and every single affliction spell is infused and curropted with the use of fel magic. This is essentially the dark force seen within demons and the nether, the big curroptive, burning river that flows through the universe and the stupid and Iron-willed can tap into, for the right price. Like all fel infused crafts, this is extremely addictive.

Death Knights use ' Natural ' shadow, the sensation of cold death, channeled into magic. Shadow infused with necromatic energies that rot away at foes and cause tiredness, sickness and finally death/undeath, it is the sensation of poor health and the withering of the psyhical form. Diseases. Y'know. Like all forms of necromancy this slowly causes death or undeath.

And finally the one I want to discuss in more depth, and start building up some history about. The Divine shadow, used by the forsaken, shadow priests and in rituals performed by Witch Doctors and Ritualists. Personally, I feel it's important to look at the divine light here, as a sort of contrasting point. The divine light comes to those who believe what they do to be just and righteous, a weapon of ones inner-will and determination. So does the divine shadow inheritally come to those who believe what they do to be evil? No, I don't think so. I mean.. does a " good " villian honestly think what he's doing to be evil or unjustful, no. The Divine shadow. (In my honest opinion.) is about channeling ones will, it's invokeing your will upon someone else, it's removing you emotion from your thoughts and bending the spoon, so to speak. It's thinking things in reality and weaving someones mind like a puppet on the tightest strings you can imagine.

So, Fel magic may cause a warlock to become erratic and sadistic.
Whilst Necromancy bleeds away the soul of it's user, whilst causing undeath to the psyhical form.

What about Shadow priests? It's about sharpening your mind, causing torment and pain because you hammer your very thoughts into a weapon. Perhaps it causes a shift in ones personality, they become dettached from they're emotions, smarter? Cold and calculated and near impossible to relax. The type of person who stares at you.. and doesn't seem to be bothered by the fact your -looking- right back. The type of unreadable manner a sociopath would have, or perhaps even the psychologist trying to study him? Who knows.

This presents further questions. How exactly teach the Divine shadow? A Necromancer might find a anicent tome with techniques and spells, whilst a Warlock might come across a demonic artifact. Does the shadow priest even have another source of power other then his sharpened noggin', I dunno. Perhaps the crown in Alterac the ogre boss puts on his head improves one domination of others, maybe some sort of glass eye exsists in Stranglethorn that gives the user control over anyone that looks into it, interesting ideas and they're is plently of potential. But so far, Shadow priests feel like the jedi's swinging about mind tricks, or the telepath who are capable of forcing you off a cliff, just by locking your gaze.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your posts about the topic : D.

by **Drustai** Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:50 pm

Vectoria wrote:Necromancy will eventually turn you undead

There's your answer.

Necromancy is shadow magic. It is a specific subset of shadow magic that deforms it (as far as I can tell, this is done by making a twisted mockery of both Life and Shadow magic), but its basic idea still applies. and The Light comes to those who hold a great amount of faith in their actions.

Therefore, shadow's corrupting effect is very similar to necromancy, with the exception that it does not turn you undead at the end--it simply kills you. It ages you before your time, weakens and drains you. With enough long-term, improper use, you will become nothing more than a worn out husk, a shell of a living being--if you haven't died yet, that is.

Not only that, but it affects the mind as well. Shadow is about consuming others to feed yourself. Where the Light is altruism, Shadow is selfishness. Light seeks to create, Shadow seeks to destroy. Someone who uses Shadow will become more selfish, more aggressive, less empathetic, more willing to use others for their own gain.

Shadow, by its nature, is the energy of destruction. If we use 'classic' DnD terms, it is negative energy. Rot, death, decay, disease, these things are all either caused by shadow energy, or simply their very being is shadow. Where a living being is ripe with life energies, a dead being is a well of shadow energy, feeding on and destroying life around it. Where shadow energy exists, life dies. No matter if you are plant, animal, or metal, shadow energy will make you wither, rot, and rust.

It is the cycle of life and death. Life creates, Shadow destroys.

Necromancy tries to get around that by creating unlife, which somehow is both creation and destruction in one. Despite that, it should be noted that the vast majority of necromancy spells are simple shadow spells. Only a small subset of the school actually deals with unlife. They are simply shadowmages with a twist.

Warlocks use Fel shadow and every single affliction spell is infused and curropted with the use of fel magic. This is essentially the dark force seen within demons and the nether, the big curroptive, burning river that flows through the universe and the stupid and Iron-willed can tap into, for the right price. Like all fel infused crafts, this is extremely addictive.

Yes.

Big key thing many people miss:

Fel is not shadow. Fel uses shadow, because shadow is by its nature destructive, but fel is, itself, not shadow. Fel is chaos. It doesn't seek the natural balance and order of the galaxy. It doesn't want to destroy everything, like shadow, it wants to destroy the order on which everything relies.

Death Knights use ' Natural ' shadow, the sensation of cold death, channeled into magic. Shadow infused with necromatic energies that rot away at foes and cause tiredness, sickness and finally death/undeath, it is the sensation of poor health and the withering of the psyhical form. Diseases. Y'know. Like all forms of necromancy this slowly causes death or undeath.

Death knights use primarily shadow, with necromantic spell techniques. This means, not only using the energies of shadow, but also understanding how to twist it with life energies.

They do this by infusing shadow energy (or occasionally unholy (unliving, life+shadow) energy) into runic patterns (with some few self-sufficient spells).

Necromancers essentially do the same thing, though typically rely more on arcane techniques rather than rune patterns.

And finally the one I want to discuss in more depth, and start building up some history about. The Divine shadow, used by the forsaken, shadow priests and in rituals performed by Witch Doctors and Ritualists. Personally, I feel it's important to look at the divine light here, as a sort of contrasting point. The divine light comes to those who believe what they do to be just and righteous, a weapon of ones inner-will and determination. So does the divine shadow inheritally come to those who believe what they do to be evil? No, I don't think so. I mean.. does a " good " villian honestly think what he's doing to be evil or unjustful, no. The Divine shadow. (In my honest opinion.) is about channeling ones will, it's invokeing your will upon someone else, it's removing you emotion from your thoughts and bending the spoon, so to speak. It's thinking things in reality and weaving someones mind like a puppet on the tightest strings you can imagine.

Divine Shadow does not 'come' to Shadow users. Because one does not receive Shadow. It is selfishness incarnate. It is about taking to feed yourself. By taking from others, they fuel that selfish desire, and thus become embodiments of shadow as a result.

Divine Shadow is not just an "Evil Light". It has an entirely different belief system. Its ideals are vastly different. One does not 'pray' to some divine shadowy entity and subjugate themselves to it for powers. They all believe themselves to be that divine shadowy entity, who subjugates others to them, leaching their energy and resources to feed themselves.

So, Fel magic may cause a warlock to become erratic and sadistic.

Yes, because fel is about chaos.

Whilst Necromancy bleeds away the soul of it's user, whilst causing undeath to the psyhical form.

Necromancy is an offshoot of shadow. It is not its own separate field. Everything that necromancy does to its user is because of shadow energy. A shadowmage would face the exact same corruption as a necromancer--the only difference is that the necromancer often (but not always) focuses on an unholy union of shadow and life to create unlife. This is why a necromancer would become undead, while a normal shadowmage would simply die. Both would wither and decay and age before their time, because both use shadow energy.

What about Shadow priests? It's about sharpening your mind, causing torment and pain because you hammer your very thoughts into a weapon. Perhaps it causes a shift in ones personality, they become dettached from they're emotions, smarter? Cold and calculated and near impossible to relax. The type of person who stares at you.. and doesn't seem to be bothered by the fact your -looking- right back. The type of unreadable manner a sociopath would have, or perhaps even the psychologist trying to study him? Who knows.

Yes. But shadowmages and necromancers would become this way as well--warlocks too to a degree (combined with their chaotic natures from fel). All of them are using shadow energy, and thus it will affect them all in the same way.

This presents further questions. How exactly teach the Divine shadow?

You instruct one on the ideals of selfishness. To use a Star Wars example... the Sith are a very good example of shadow worship. The apprentice is taught to kill the master, or be subjugated and/or killed by the master. Both master and apprentice are selfish control freaks who must dominate all life around them--only when, at long last, dominating their very instructor are they believed to have truly earned their proper place.

Shadowpriests would be the same way. An instructor is only respected as long as he is a more powerful adversary. He is an enemy, challenge to overcome, he is not your friend. The instructor seeks the apprentice to be a slave for him, hoping to be able to subjugate him to his bidding and not be subjugated in return.

Does the shadow priest even have another source of power other then his sharpened noggin', I dunno.

His other source of power is everyone and everything around him. He is a void. A vacuum. Hunger. He consumes to feed himself. Shadow destroys life. That is how it grows more powerful.

Warlocks: Fel + Shadow + Fire (arcane or divine spellcasting)
Shadowmages: Shadow (arcane spellcasting)
Necromancers: Shadow + Life (arcane spellcasting)
Death Knights: Shadow + Life (runecasting)
Shadowpriests: Shadow (divine spellcasting)

All use shadow. They just use in different ways... whether through arcane or divine or runic spellcasting techniques, or in tandem with other "elements."

They all will, therefore, suffer similar physical and spiritual deterioration, just in different 'flavors'.

by **Gesh** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:03 am

So a living shadow user would die eventually? Or would it be more a case of, if they stop killing, they will die?

What links does shadow use have to do with madness, surely there should be a more distinquishable difference between a necromancer, a shadowmage and a shadow priest. When does it come back to the idea of manipulation and mind control?

by **Lexgrad** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:17 am

I assume the sucessful practitioners find ways to side step the worst effects. It will still munch your life tho, kinda like smoking, Dangerous but cool.

by **Drustai** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:17 am

Vectoria wrote:So a living shadow user would die eventually? Or would it be more a case of, if they stop killing, they will die?

Die eventually, due to exposure to the destructive nature of shadow energy. Shadow is the energy of death, a shadow-user exposes themselves to this far more than most individuals, thus vastly hastening their own demise.

A shadow user does NOT have to kill people. Shadow users don't have to be pathological bloodthirsty homicidal maniacs. It means using shadow magic, with the possibility (depending on individual) of using others to your own benefit, in whatever manner.

What links does shadow use have to do with madness, surely there should be a more distinquishable difference between a necromancer, a shadowmage and a shadow priest. When does it come back to the idea of manipulation and mind control?

Again, never said it makes you a pathological bloodthirsty homicidal maniac. It makes you someone who uses shadow energy and, after physically and spiritually deteriorating from it (or from venerating the very ideals of it, as a shadowpriest), someone who also has no issue with using and controlling others for their own benefit.

There shouldn't be much of a distinguishable difference because the fact is they all use the same energy. They use it in different ways, and priests might be able to use it with much less physical deterioration, but likely far faster spiritual deterioration (as their magic is almost entirely based on faith and absolutely living to the ideals of shadow). Shadowmages and necromancers on the otherhand will suffer from both physical and spiritual deterioration, with shadowmages simply dying from too much exposure, while necromancers die but possibly being risen into undeath after too much exposure.

That's the difference.

Warlocks will also suffer physical and spiritual deterioration from shadow energy, but also fel corruption. They will either die or eventually morph into felsworn, and, with a very long time, demons themselves.

by **Drustai** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:18 am

Lexgrad wrote:I assume the sucessful practitioners find ways to side step the worst effects. It will still munch your life tho, kinda like smoking, Dangerous but cool.

This.

by **Lexgrad** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:24 am

Nod, likely you would start by using just a little bit, "I am in control of it", I can cope with it by using this ward (or simmler defence). Then that thing happens and you fail the virtue of tenecity and take the easy route, dip further into the shadow... Until you one day awake and see yourself in the mirrowr, cheeks sunken, skin dry, eyes dead.

by **Gesh** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:47 am

What's your source for this infomation Dru?

Wouldn't mind reading it!

Anyway, so the current concept for my Gilnean human is that she's a specialist within the study of the paranormal and it's effect on the mind. Who's known for being knowledgeable on the dangers of the Dark arts, without ever performing it before. With the fall of Gilneas, she survived and remained un-cursed by tapping into her wisdom of the craft.

I want her path of the shadow to be a slow and steady decline with her going through different phases. I'd imagine her long-term goal would be to master the art of shadow and then try and subdue it's deathly side effects.

by **Lexgrad** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:52 am

We can teach you in exchange for service Vect!

by **Gesh** Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:59 am

A Gilnean conversing with undead? Pfft. Even if she's gonna be morally ambiguous, certain ground rules!

Though, It might be interesting to see how they mix if they run into one another.

by **Lexgrad** Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:07 am

We do take mages from other guilds and offer guidance. It is quite useful for us to have access to the living and to shadowmancers.

by **Timna** Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:37 am

Hmm.
Perhaps though, in trust and belief of that after all Shadow magic wishes to destroy, it may destroy also the empathy and so on of the caster, no? In such ways making them believe that "Divine Shadow magic" or the magic that they use is in fact another Shadow entity granting it; however, this may just be one of their madman beliefs.

Damn my late night writing. Apologies if you don't understand that.

Attempted re-write:
Through the lack of empathy a person may get through using Shadow magic, and the willingness to abuse others perhaps, could this possibly defile a mind enough for them to, in essence corrupt themselves so horribly they actually think they are doing it through another being/entity (this may be a psychological mindset of being able to "place the blame on someone or something else")?

by **Drustai** Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:02 am

Vectoria wrote:What's your source for this infomation Dru?

Wouldn't mind reading it!

As usual with everything I do, the source is various lore scattered across the game and source books, merged with my own logic-based inferences that seeks to dig deep to the connections between things.

I believe one should always look for what is similar, not for what is different. Blizzard has this habit of making things stand-alone and isolated. This is very easy because it prevents conflict and doesn't require any thought, but in reality things are very interconnected. I focus on looking for those hidden connections between things.

Necromancy spells, many warlock spells, and all shadow-based shadow spells use shadow energy. Both in-game and in the sourcebooks. Therefore, the deterioration that is inherent in one must be reflected in each, for all use the same energy. Looking at NPCs who have used shadow energy also resoundingly confirms this. They almost invariably become twisted shells of themselves.

When you then also consider the very nature of shadow energy--that is, VOID--you come to the same conclusion. The void hungers. It feeds on others to sustain its own existence. Any user of shadow magic is thus treading on forces that seek to devour them. And if we go by dramatic flavor, then those forces should not be something that anyone can truly resist forever.

As I have said in previous topics where asked, if you want me to get my sources, I can, but note that it will take many hours of painstaking searching and grabbing quotes, then demonstrating how I have pieced them together. I'm well-studied to the point that this is stuff I know by heart, so I don't tend to have the quotes on-hand.

I've actually been working on a magic and shadow/necromancy guide, similar to my DK one, but those have been slow as I've been lazy. I should work on those more. Typically I grab quite a few quotes for those.

I want her path of the shadow to be a slow and steady decline with her going through different phases. I'd imagine her long-term goal would be to master the art of shadow and then try and subdue it's deathly side effects.

Then the deterioration is up your alley. It's not something that happens immediately, it's a slow effect that takes place over many years, with speed faster or slower depending on level of usage and strength of will.

So the things to basically keep in mind:

If you're young, you'll probably be more or less normal. You might have a bit of a selfish streak, but beyond that, you're fine. Well, that is, if you're a shadowmage/necromancer/warlock/etc. If you're a proper faithful shadow priest, then the tenants of your faith are going to make you embracing those darker ethos much sooner.

If you've been using it for awhile, then start applying the growing deterioration as the destructive nature of shadow eats away at your body and mind. Get winded more easily. Grow more pale. Thinner. Become more selfish, more concerned with yourself, less caring of others.

Then think, how does your character respond to this? In Drustai's case, her answer is and has always been magic, but also self-control and willpower. She hides the darkness that eats away at her behind masks. Illusions to hide defects, exercises to tone and strengthen the body, elegant fashion and prim and proper social graces to avoid showing her selfish, uncaring arrogance. These all serve to hide the real, damaged person beneath.

That's what a shadow user is. They are being destroyed by their craft. Some might embrace it, others might try to hide it. It's a very interesting thing to RP.

by **Drustai** Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:06 am

Timna wrote:Hmm.
Perhaps though, in trust and belief of that after all Shadow magic wishes to destroy, it may destroy also the empathy and so on of the caster, no? In such ways making them believe that "Divine Shadow magic" or the magic that they use is in fact another Shadow entity granting it; however, this may just be one of their madman beliefs.

Yes, exactly. Shadow is about selfishness. Empathy is thus a casualty of using shadow. For priests, especially, it is something that must go. Shadowmages/necromancers/etc can still have empathy as they don't need to follow literal doctrines, but too much use of shadow magic will invariably corrupt their mind, making them more and more selfish.

Attempted re-write:
Through the lack of empathy a person may get through using Shadow magic, and the willingness to abuse others perhaps, could this possibly defile a mind enough for them to, in essence corrupt themselves so horribly they actually think they are doing it through another being/entity (this may be a psychological mindset of being able to "place the blame on someone or something else")?

Yes. People are individuals, so this is a possible course. It is a bit against the standard doctrine of a shadowpriest (because the faith and the nature of void itself is divine humanism, elevation of the self, etc), but that doesn't mean it's not possible. Just like you can get insane priests of the Holy Light, who view the Light as some kind of real entity speaking to them and granting them powers (hello Abbendis).

by **Lexgrad** Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:10 am

Its all just magic, those with faith are fools...

(standard Lexgrad rant)

by **Saevir** Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:12 am

I'd caution against against lumping the spells of different classes together as the same type of magic just because they all deal shadow damage in the game. Nobody would argue that a rogue's use of poison is magic of the same brand as a shaman's lightning bolt either for example.

by **Tyrós/Cále** Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:21 am

Correct me if I'm wrong (I probably am. This isn't exactly my area of expertise.) but I always thought it was like this with the different schools:

Arcane = Pure magic. Mildly addictive and corrupting, will make you age faster. Source: The Four Laws of Magic, and more specifically the quote "Those who claim that only Necromancy and Fel Magic have a corrupting influence are fooling themselves."
Fel Magic = Demonic/corrupted Arcane magics. Negative effects are enhanced.

So I kinda see Arcane and fel as polar opposites of "normal" magic, where at the negative end of the spectrum the side effects are enhanced. When you then look at "divine" magic, I would suggest they are polar opposites much in the same way.

The Light: Magic based on life, healing, etc.
Shadow: Magic based on death (or indeed undeath), diseases, and so on.

Since the Light supposedly makes you age slower (or at least live longer), the divine school is thus in a way an opposite of the "normal" school. Perhaps that means Shadow magics makes you live longer as well, but admittedly let's say by becoming undead/corrupted. Hell, if side effects are enhanced on the negative spectrum in the Divine School as well, then that would make a lot of sense as there really isn't the same "die-of-old-age" factor associated with undeath. In any case I would contest that Shadow Magic necessarily cuts your life short, as that seems to be what Arcane/Fel magics does, and since at least ONE of the divine schools is known to have the exact opposite effect.

Saevir also has a good point, but yeah, just thought I should toss my opinion into the ring, since this thread is relevant to the RP I'm about to take on, and so I need to read up on Shadow magics/have my incorrect ideas pointed out by le pro's anyway.

by **Xen-tau** Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:56 am

Arcane = Stable magic,
Fel = Unstable magic.

I am unaware of felmagic being the same as shadowmagic, heck... I always considered shadow to be the other side of the Light coin.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:08 am

Talasseus Ebondusk wrote:

Arcane = Pure magic. Mildly addictive and corrupting, will make you age faster. Source: The Four Laws of Magic, and more specifically the quote "Those who claim

Powerfull magic grants extended lifespans and even immortality. Naga are one example (as far as I know they didn't get the tree magic) , the "Guardians of Tirisfal" and lastly the Burning Legions' demon folk, who were once mortal.

Talasseus Ebondusk wrote:
Since the Light supposedly makes you age slower (or at least live longer), the divine school is thus in a way an opposite of the "normal" school.

I think that is a speculation based on Draenei, I don't think we have any priests or paladins in lore that became older than expected.

The effect of magic on aging I would say depends on how controlled it is in the body. Elves with better control almost grown into them, allows a life extending effect (theory based on roughly 80 years for a troll, but elves can have thousand of years), but recklesly throwing it around, biting off more than you can chew and recklesly throwing it around fastens the aging.

Also, for you to think about.
When does Necromancy become Necromancy, it doesn't sounds that farfetched to me to enchant a skeleton like you do with a Arcane Guardian.... or a broom. Do necromantic energies somehow stick to bone better than your average arcane?

by **Tyrós/Cále** Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:26 am

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:
Powerfull magic grants extended lifespans and even immortality. Naga are one example (as far as I know they didn't get the tree magic) , the "Guardians of Tirisfal" and lastly the Burning Legions' demon folk, who were once mortal.

Good point, but I was trying to simplify to the point of what would be to expect for an RP'er wielding magic from the specific schools. Razz

I guess I worded it pretty poorly in the context, though.

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:I think that is a speculation based on Draenei, I don't think we have any priests or paladins in lore that became older than expected.

The effect of magic on aging I would say depends on how controlled it is in the body. Elves with better control almost grown into them, allows a life extending effect (theory based on roughly 80 years for a troll, but elves can have thousand of years), but recklesly throwing it around, biting off more than you can chew and recklesly throwing it around fastens the aging.

Yes I believe it is, but I always thought it made sense. And most of the discussion here is based on speculations anyway; Blizz hates us and seems to keep Lore intentionally unclear just so they can rewrite and make shit up when it suits them. xD As for examples in lore, I don't recall how old Uther was when the Alliance of Lordaeron was around, but he at least didn't seem to have aged as much for WC3 as might be expected. But then again, in WoW and the Culling of Stratholme, he is all gray-haired, so maybe Blizz changed that.

That said I'm only arguing back for the sake of it. I think you're right. xD

by Guest Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:32 am

When does Necromancy become Necromancy, it doesn't sounds that farfetched to me to enchant a skeleton like you do with a Arcane Guardian.... or a broom. Do necromantic energies somehow stick to bone better than your average arcane?

Well, that's due to that thematic diversion -
Light/holy magic can mend the body
Arcane magic can destroy the body
Shadow/unholy can animate the body (and destroy it in blasphemous ways too!)

by **Thelos** Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:12 am

Warning: The Interpetation Train is not stopping anywhere this post. Destination Unkown-known-known.

Drustai wrote:

When you then also consider the very nature of shadow energy--that is, VOID--you come to the same conclusion. The void hungers. It feeds on others to sustain its own existence. Any user of shadow magic is thus treading on forces that seek to devour them. And if we go by dramatic flavor, then those forces should not be something that anyone can truly resist forever.

I think this sums it up pretty nicely in a creed that is very often heard from NPCs and units in the Warcraft universe. The Void hungers, indeed!

I've always mostly for myself tried to define Shadow in negative terms. If it truly is supposed to be the antithesis of Light though, that brings with it some interesting extreme consequences for both the Light and the Shadow if one were to push it to certain extremes. For example, if the void hunters and feeds on others to sustain its own existence, would that mean the Light gives to others to destroy its own excistence? With "itself" I now refer not to the magic in itself but the user or channel for that certain form of magic. I remember that Khadgar quote where he encourages the player to become a "beacon of Light". Does he mean that literally? Are the worshippers of the Light to become one with the Light itself; an entity that only gives? The Light is a Sun, the Shadow is a Black Hole. The Naaru life cycle is another thing that can be used to defend this view. Naaru do not die in the traditional sense. Instead, they shift into a kind of void state, where they attract and devour souls in order to fill up their lost energy. The Light is energy, warmth; the shadow is anti-energy, anti-matter, cold.

Of course, one cannot just take without giving or give without taking indefinately. The Light will run die and fade away into nothingness; the Sun will die. The Shadow will run out of things to consume if it absorbs everything without creating something to give back to the universe; and fade into nothingness. The two forcces sustain eachother. Without the Void, as D'ore the Naaru tells us, there can be no Light. This I think should be taken literally. That is why Shadow should be taken as being a part of the cosmos, part of the eternal balance and order, while Fel on the other hand excists outside of this order and seeks to destroy it all together. It has chosen Shadow as its chief agent because they, like I just did, have seen that a pure Shadow without any Light will devour and destroy the whole cosmos if left unchecked. It is no coincidence that in WoW, the class that has a holy spec also has a shadow spec. They are not so different as we mortals like to think; though exactly because they are opposites.

If that doesn't make any sense to you, just look at this image as a reference.

Shadow magic, Say whaaat? 337757902

Yin and Yang. Shadow and Light.

This is a stretch, I realise that, and I advice you to definately stay away as far as you can from Taoïsm because things will stop making sense very, very fast and before you know it you'll be in a mental institution. Funny to note by the way that Yin, our shadow here, is not only associated with shadow but also with femininity and the dark side of the moon. Like with many things, I feel Blizzard shops and stops from many religious and philosophical sources and just takes whichever suits the game mechanics and which looks cool. Yin and Yang as you know aren't actually evil and good, while they quite definately are in the WoW universe.

Perhaps though that one day we will have an enlightened prophet that will tell us that Shadow and Light are the same; that there is no such thing as evil; that nothingness is not to be feared; that rather than to destroy the Shadow, Light should seek to harmonize with it; and so forth.

Dont keep us waiting, Exaythe Wink

Edit: I used Shadow in many places I could have perhaps better used the term Void, but I'll let you make your own conclusions on that.

by **erwtenpeller** Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:57 am

I like Thelos' view.

But let's not forget, Ladies and gentlemen, that it is no shame to just pick a point of view that best suits your character and play. The fact that blizzard may have left some "holes" could be condemned, but I would rather see it exploited to create an interesting slew of characters that all make sense in the same world.

Delidah, for example, has different views on all of this. She may be wrong, but she still believes what she has concluded from her (shallow) observations. That may change, and that's the fun of it.

This thread was an interesting read nonetheless, thank you Vectoria, Drustai and Thelos for your insights.

by **Gesh** Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:59 am

Talk of the void is interesting and then that, but what relation does the shadow have to a Priest's ability to manipulate people by sheer force of will, Warlocks harness it into actual matter and Death Knights into Diseases, but Saevir made a very good point, just because they have the same shadow damage ingame, should they be considered the same force in the lore. What difference is there between a Warlock and a Priest then?

Fel shadow: Chaotic magic
Divine shadow: As Thelos said, a natural force.

Light links itself to positive emotions: Bravery, Faith and Joy.
The shadow could link itself: Intimidation, Selfishness and a hunger for control.

Possibly, I just don't agree with it being mixed in with Necromancers and Warlocks, considering their spells do two very different things.

The Cult of Shadow.
The Three Virtues

The Cult of Forgotten Shadow preaches three virtues: respect, tenacity, and power.

Respect

The universe is the physical manifestation of other's wills. Thus, for a person to denigrate the universe is to ignore the personal power of those around them. This is not only disrespectful, it is dangerous. A follower of the Forgotten Shadow must develop his personal power in order to exert his will on the universe, but seeking too much power too quickly puts him in conflict with other, stronger beings. Only a foolish follower seeks to challenge his superiors right away. Showing respect ensures a measure of self-protection.

Tenacity

Followers of the Forgotten Shadow put even greater stock in the virtue of tenacity. It may at first seem impossible for a person to change the universe when countless others seeking to do the same surround him. Through unwavering perseverance and tenacity though, they may triumph.

Power

Power is the third virtue of the Forgotten Shadow, and the most difficult to attain. A Forsaken who grabs greedily for power might encounter power too great for him or her to handle, and die in their attempt to master it. A Forsaken who succumbs to despair and seeks no personal power has no reason to exist; he craves nothing, desires nothing, he sits alone and pines for his old life. To the cult, Forsaken who do not seek to better themselves might as well still be part of the Scourge. The quest for power requires caution, forethought, and a subtle touch.

by **erwtenpeller** Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:07 am

I personally like to use tailoring analogies to explain magic on Delidah.

She sees sources of energy as tangible things to spin threads from.
These threads are then used to create weaves from patterns, resulting in a certain effect.

By this logic a warlock and a priest could use vastly different ways to spin their treads and weave their magic, but it could still use the same basic pool of energy as a source.

She is a creature of logic though, she has no concept of "faith" (yet).

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