The Consequences of WPVP

Hello,

I have been reading alot of anti and pro statements towards the actions of Shadow of Nine, and i do not wish to take part in this subject because i consider it slightly exaggerated. Yet i am afraid that this whole discussion might create a precedent to blame anyone who attacks alliance rp'ers.
For example, back on my old server, it was very custom for my guild to engage in WPVP attacks against alliance members in Gold Shire. We did that because we were an group of rogues that "lived" to kill alliance as part as our RP. It is true we rarely attacked RP events, or RP geared players unless they were officially at war with our guild (declared and official from an RP point of view), but if they were geared up and "red" than they were killed(or we tried to ).

Now, i would like to do the same. Start up a rogue guild and have alot of "behind enemy lines" events. Will i get blamed and marked as a "bad player" just because i dislike tea party events and i like pvp events ?

Please note that this post is not intended to blame or be blamed. I want to have a normal feedback so that i know where i stand.

To be honest i like the whole behind enermy line's theme.
cant see why, if you followed a rules of conduct that it be a problem.

People seem to have grown very resentful against any form of attack lately. While I'm not happy to see my schedule of the evening determined by some asshole's pathetic idea of what PvP is, but this is the consequence of a PvP server and this is also why I choose to roll on a RP-Pvp server instead of an RP-PvE server.

I won't make a hassle out of it.

The issue is not the WPvP I think. The issue is that they continuously ruin events and grief RP. If you'd simply make sure you're not disturbing a major RP event I see no problem with it.

Yes, we all know its a WPvP realm. But it is mighty frustrating if you've planned an event for weeks and it simply gets ruined. That I think, is what causes frustration like this.

Saihna Trollbane wrote:The issue is not the WPvP I think. The issue is that they continuously ruin events and grief RP. If you'd simply make sure you're not disturbing a major RP event I see no problem with it.

Yes, we all know its a WPvP realm. But it is mighty frustrating if you've planned an event for weeks and it simply gets ruined. That I think, is what causes frustration like this.

This, as well as turning tail and running as soon as proper geared players show up. SoN isn't as much W-PvP as it is griefing, they only go for lowbies or people without proper gear/lesser numbers. As long as you stay clear of that you shouldn't have any problems at all.

Thank you for the reply.
I do not intend to deliberately ruin an RP event or go /spit at anyone cause that would be rude. But i will ruin RP events if i have an IC reason: for example, i find out there is a gathering to plan an attack on Silvermoon. I will attack that gathering (but that would be complicated, since i have to find out IC, to send scouts/spys to confirm location and hours, and ultimately perform an IC attack ).Or if some guild patrols and we "attack" than i would consider it "valid".

Also, if i patrol a contested territory or enemy territory i will attack alliance if they cross our paths. I will not deliberately gank anyone unless i have an IC reason.

As to fighting back, yes I will fight back....or run away (and consider myself defeated) and don't come back for a couple of days (cause im not good at PVP i just like to PVP ). I don't want to hares players, i just like to PVP, and my aim is to pvp with equal skilled or better players. Killing weaker players is kinda boring unless justified by RP.

But my fear is, if some kid or girly don't agree me killing her/him, i don't want to start OOC drama on the forums. I don't players to go "telling" to GM the moment they get slapped.. When i play or when i was part of events it was very clear for me that i might be ganked or attacked, i accepted that the minute i moved to an PVP server and the minute i agreed to RP a faction at war with another factions.

Your reply make me happy and tell me we can have some nice pr-pvp together. To what concerns SoN i suggest the affected players to hire another guild for protection during the event.
Also a thing we used to do and i plan to do it further: hire mercenaries for "real" gold to kill certain targets and proof by print screen. You could do the same and i believe you will find that fighting SoN might become fun for both sides.

Like it was said in a few other threads before, engaging W-PvP without warning the opposite party has become some sort of harassment as of late, which is a shame really.

Those who RP in contested territories should be aware of the risks they automatically accept by doing so. The horde is not obliged to have to any reason to attack the alliance other than the solemn fact that they are the alliance and vice versa. Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting repeated ganking or griefing in any way. However, demanding to be warned each time, treating the server as a RP-PvE one and creating a huge OOC clusterfuck out of such attacks, is nothing but sad tbh.

Everyone has the means to gear up PvP-wise to least to a decent level. Everyone also has the freedom not to do so, but in that case they should be avoiding contested territories for their RP. Refusing to gear up and keep RPing in such areas, only to complain about getting jumped on by the enemy faction (again, I'm not speaking about the SoN here or any similar griefing parties) defeats the purpose of being on a RP-PvP server to begin with.

So Orthos, don't worry about engaging W-PvP in those regards. Even if you do get people whispering you afterwards, you should dismiss the whispers as needless whining.

I'd contest the point your above plan would ruin the event. It might ruin the IC plans, but it will not ruin the RP event.

What SoN do doesn't impact IC because, as far as I'm aware, they're not RPers and their actions are not IC, they only ruin the RP event.

It's not your fault but you seem to misunderstand the problem facing Duskwood RP. It is not just one event that needs protection. It is daily RP starting when the first person logs in and and ending when the last person logs out. Bloodwind, amongst others, have rather admirably done their best to stop SoN's antics, through a variety of methods. And I completely understand their unwillingness to chase around a bunch of players who mount up and hover above Duskwood for an hour until the competition goes away.

So they can't simply hire a guild to protect their event, and they shouldn't really have to. As I've pointed out this is not part of the PvP ruleset, it's been proven to fall under the harassment policy. So in a way the precedant has been set already. However, I doubt your RP would revolve around ganking non military targets in a non strategic location utilising a terrorists rules of engagement.

If I had the time I'd lend my aid to Duskwood, but I've a lot of IRL stuff on my plate for the next few weeks and, simply put, I don't think I'd solve the problem. They have said themselves they're trying to provoke a response from the PvP guilds, attempting to justify their actions I imagine, and by responding to that we'd just be placating them.

So they can't simply hire a guild to protect their event, and they shouldn't really have to. As I've pointed out this is not part of the PvP ruleset, it's been proven to fall under the harassment policy.

Unfortunately, it is part of the PvP ruleset.

I'll quote the PvP policies concerning opposite factions:

Opposing Faction

This category covers PvP combat between members of the Horde and the Alliance.

* The Ongoing Harassment policy does not apply on the PvP server when there is a PvP resolution available. Characters have the ability to deal with their conflicts through combat and Game Masters will only involve themselves in extreme circumstances.
* Actions that would typically be considered "dishonorable actions" are considered PvP mechanics and are not considered harassment.
* Policies governing general decency are still in effect. Actions such as inappropriate names, obscene language, and spamming, will still be addressed according to our current policies.

I have replied to a thread regarding this matter on the official Role-play forums, but I'll say it again:

Ongoing physical harasment (ganking, ruining the event) is something that can be solved with PvP Mechanics. Regardless of the original intentions of the griefers, it is a policy that eliminates the reason to report them regarding their disruptive behavior. This also counts for spamming in /s and /e, teabagging etc.

Verbal harassment can only be reported in two situations: If a Horde-side player also clarifies the player was using obscene language, OR the griefer logs on an alt to whisper you obscenities.

The general idea is that anything done by the opposite faction on an (RP-)PvP realm that can be interrupted with ample amount of people, gear and levels aren't reportable. I even talked with numerous game masters and they unfortunately agreed to this. Even in faction-friendly areas, them sitting on your face with a mammoth, PvP enabled falls under this category :/

Just a small addition here: receiving attacks by the other faction is part of the game, no matter how some may want to twist and bend this fact in oder for it to fit their RP mindset. Horde and Alliance are the two opposing poles of this world, they hate each other and they fight one another. Anything more elaborated in regards to the reasons behind an attack (military or political targets, strategic positions, etc.) is welcome but not mandatory. The animosity between the two factions should be enough to be quite honest.

This ceases to be the case when the attackers are obviously after making your game experience a poor one. The SoN are only after that in specific as they have proven enough times by now. That's why the don't fall under the category of acceptable anymore. They have proven to be OOC driven and not actually pursue W-PvP but try to simply make people's gaming experience miserable.



Bloodwind has shown up as a guild 4 times this far, not counting the times where 1-2 of us joined the fights on their own accord. It's the same every single time. We arrive, they get annihilated and they remain airborne after that. It never fails. That's not W-PvP. That's a huge pile of steaming bullshit and we simply can't bother with that.

As long as you steer clear of such piles of bullshit, you should be fine.

I'm talking not from what I've researched, but from what I've seen occuring in the part. You can debate to death the lengths to which PvP as to go before it becomes extreme but the circumstances surrounding the suspensions I saw on a pure PvP server were no greater than the circumstances I've been told exist here. Fundamentally it's a judgement call by the GM (not a numerous amount) who's delegated to deal with the tickets, so it becomes a game to emotionally blackmail the poor fellow

I'm not trying to outquote you because I'm very aware what the PvP rules imply, but the implication has been proven moot in the past and perhaps it will again. There is very little consistancy in Blizzard's 'policing' which can cause anxiety for both those being griefed as well as those with a legitimate desire to PvP as the OP does. I'm not affected by this, although I think I might have been ganked by SoN when I was afk in the woods, I didn't care to check. I'm just passing on what knowledge I've had of a similar situation on another server.

I'm doing the same and in all honesty, what I'm generally quoting / saying are the sole reason the Goons, or in this case SoN, end up on RP-PvP realms. Here their antics can fall into the acceptable brackets, due to Blizzard not adding any community-driven policies regarding each server.

And, in my honest opinion, they have been around long enough to know that they won't get banned due to tie-ins with actual Blizzard employees (YOGS and Goon Squad members playing in Cataclysm Alpha for example) or how the policies give them enough freedom. If these loopholes didn't exist, they'd be nowhere to be seen, but Blizzard rather enforces aforementioned loopholes instead of the actual policies, except a few occasions.
Makes me wonder what'd happen if 200 people reported SoN for the very same thing.

If your going for the IC 'strike attacks' with a decent level of IC decency then I say go for it. I imagine from what I read it's nothing like what those SoN jokers are doing so power to you. Another adversary group like this for SI7 to perhaps go up against is welcome as far as i'm concerned. See how it plays out I guess ^^

ay I would agree with what you do,, ic attacks on miletary targets and "proper" pvp I would happely accept

as with this SoN they come,.. attack and kill all they get killed ,.. fly high till defenders get bourd,.. they come back and gank

its like this every night now for at least 2-3 hours now

Its not fun

but as long as you keep things proper, I have no problem

as for the one saying People like me (clearly not a wpvp fan) I dont resent it no.. infact if done proper I rarther enjoy it, these guys are cowerds and use there flyers to keep themselfs safe,.. if flying was not in the game,.. I assure you those SoN would be long gone by now

Chareshía wrote:.. if flying was not in the game,.. I assure you those SoN would be long gone by now

One of the reasons Cata fails and many have quit the game.

If level 60 was still the cap I believe WPvP would still be alive and kicking. Level 70 took WPvP out of reach of anybody not very close to the level cap.

I'll admit I had an advantage as a mage, but I can't recall how many dozens of times in STV I'd enjoy the thrill of a level 60 moving in for the kill and then persue me across half the zone before I'd finally elude him.

That thrill is what make being ganked fun, you had a chance. Not if you stood and fought, although a few level 50 mages will tell you differently , but you could beat them in other ways. Now the game is no longer about maneuvering but about RNG, arbitary numbers, and who the devs fucked up last patch. I may be looking through rose tinted glasses but I can't recall anybody whining about balance in those days, some classes were clearly OP and some were clearly disadvantaged against other classes. But everyone looked past that and played to win.

I also miss AV.

Ok guys i see your point. I'll keep it civil, bloody and as much as possible IC.

And i would love to play with SI7 and other guilds on both sides as soon as we get Shalla Zaram pass the two current members. .

This topic is closed from my point of view. I have the answers i needed.

I believe those Shadow of Nine pricks were ruïning our The Three Hammers roleplaying a couple of days ago. They were standing on us with their 10 ton mammoth mounts and constantly spammed the space button ...
(you know, the mammoth makes a sound if you do that)

I contacted a GM and to what I hear from all of you guys it seems they're still ruïng people's roleplay, GM's dont take us roleplayers too serious.

When you want to IC engage in a PvP situation against a target which is not aware of your attack then consider to do it in your roleplay gear, it will both look more epic and the battle will surely last longer. (Unless you are attacking PvPgeared opponents, then go ahead full vicious!)

From my point of view I'd say that we should all strive to make this game, it's atmosphere and roleplay as epic and as fun for everybody as possible. Forget the 'I must win every battle I fight'-mentality and embrace the idea of making the experience as wonderful and fun for everybody involved as possible. Give of yourself, offer your counterpart a victory every now and then! This applies in both RPPvP and in RP. In every situation take a monent to decide which acton of yours which will make the following event as fun and brilliant for everyone involved.
Enjoy the game and share that joy with everybody (roleplayers) you play with!


PS. And either ignore or nuke the OOCers/Griefers

Oh me and Orthas did an IC scout with the purpose of taking out an rp alliance opponent once. It was all in Goldshire which on that server was quite busy with a couple of rp guilds based there. We were in rp gear and wouldn't run through people in stealth etc. We never did get our target though, she was too well protected as word got out that we were after her that night, but it was a great bit of rp and damned scary with the numbers of alliance around.