Inner-conflict. The " Essence " of Roleplay.

Getting a " good " charecter is about reconising what makes a whole person, Just as you would see in real life, in a well writtern book, perhaps even on a television series. A person is not whole without a black or white, no matter how great or small one side is. Here I wanna discuss what you enjoy about your charecters confliction, what drives them to do what they do? What inspired you? and what weaknesses, strengths do you always adhear to when roleplaying that role.

I like to start out with a near stereotypical character. It's a simple style, easy to catch on to for both myself and someone else. So.. I try to picture my character in a few words: a burly lumberjack that joined the army; a young boyish man that finally makes the step to follow his childhood dream to become a paladin; a completely socially frightened, insecure nerd. I like how my characters, over time, gain their depth. I try to fall back to their stereotype whenever I'm at a loss. Their weakness is their strength and vise versa.

I only made 1 character that had depth from the start: Gavriel. I'm not sure if many people remember him. The challenge I tried to envision with Gav was a very rough, gruff, commoner with a good heart... and trying to get that heart to show through his less than acceptable manners. I also gave him a good thinking for a "simple mind". As they say in Dutch: "Gezond Boerenverstand" (The healthy thinking of peasants). He won't solve an equation, but he'll bash that thief before he even thinks about stealing something again. His drive is simple: common sense, getting things right and simple, and earning that coin that'll pay him his mead at the end of the day.

I found that simple rules are a good basis to start from. Complexity and depth only become valuable over time, and so I like to see how the characters gain these as time passes.

I always think up the history or past of my charecters before I make them, right from birth to current age. Just because I think how you can react or been affected by certain situations moulds who you are. Even if you don't believe it yourself, or choose to rebel against it.

Vectoria grew up forced into Priesthood, between two worlds. High elf society and Human civilisation. Through that she became very quiet inlife, going along with most things. Being swept under the rug. She married because family said so, But. When she fell pregnant, she was preparing herself to flee with the child. It's not that her life was difficult or hard, it just wasen't hers and to her the child was a fresh start.

Obviously, that didn't happen, she fell to the plague. Woke up, without child. She was angry, robbed of a life that was almost in her grasp. Demonic magic was the next step, like an addiction she used it to make her choices. She was a monster, killed without remorse, burn't away at the world. It's how she became so powerful. A small lack for your own safety in the art of fel magic is indeed a plus. This is where Vectorias temper comes from, she was wronged to many times. If she ever, suspects betrayal. She kills.

All the killing however backfired, she was slain. Found by apothecaries and taken to Tirisfal she under went rituals of the Val'kyr. She wasen't cured of fel addiction, but the death had been enough to seperate her from it. She realised the depravity of her actions, but knew somewhere that she was right in killing. It was her way of life, her personal justice.

Continueing this later.


--

Cont.

She hasen't really gotten over the loss of the child. It's her vice. It's why she is incapable of killing pregnant women, young children. I think the youngiest was a boy who charged at her with a sword, fourteen. She's always going to be envious of people with life, and masquerades behind this by treating her Forsaken affliction as " immortality. " signs of this are also seen from constant visits to the Apothecary. She hates to feel rotten, decaying, weak. Strength, It's all about strength.

That said I wouldn't call her a victim who's strikeing out at the world. She loves being free, even if she's undead. It's just everything comes with a catch and that is her realisation that her life will not have a traditional path. No kids, no getting old.

I recall thinking out very detailed backgrounds on my first characters, but eventually I didn't feel it paid off. It was often becoming a hindrance, or somehow I bumped into inconsistencies in the background.
So I resolve to working out a 'general outline' and give a few highlights on things that are more important.

Usually, I try write an introduction story that captures the spirit of the character, before I fully roleplay it. It helps me get down the details of the character.

Inner conflict is what defines Mandui the most. That can be seen in the RP stories I've written and posted here. What primarily causes this is her struggle to maintain a balance between personals ambitions, an altruistic tendency and -probably her biggest enemy- anger, which in combination with her shadow wielding powers, could easily push her over into corruption.

Initially she was nowhere close to having this complex of a personality, but it's something that evolved naturally through the 4 years I've been RPing her. Like JP said, observing how a character gains depth can be an awesome experience.

Edit: Actually, after thinking about this for a moment, I came to realize that none of my characters had a very in-depth background story when I began RPing them. The significant parts of the background stories Mandui or Surayo have today for example, are in fact occurences in RP. Everything that has happened in the past years is what defines their personalities, not the basic background I gave to them when the characters were created. This is also what has developed the inner conflicts they harbor. It's a lot more natural to have these conflicts emerge and evolve through RP itself, where the interaction with other characters is what triggers their existance to begin with.

I have two main characters that I RP; Orthur Thorgint and Nygarth Thorgint.

Nygarth's storyline at first was extremely basic and the character literally evolved as I roleplayed him into the iconic persona that he is today. I am always proud to say that if I wrote a background story to Nygarth at the present moment, literally 99% of it would be stuff that happened ingame. The fact that it all comes from ingame, makes an extremely conflicted and interesting character as the years go by with many major weaknesses and strengths. It's the conflicts between his nature and his brain that makes him so interesting for me. I mean the poor guy has made some major mistakes in his life however he is attempting to reconcile and fix them presently.

Orthur on the other hand, being a much ICly older character than Nygarth; infact his Uncle. Has a much more in detail background story that is entirely ficticious. He is primarily an Arcanist in his past and that led to him living a privileged and scholarly life however he has two major vices himself. Unbeknownst to him, he is infertile, and that unfortunate fact leaves him in his old age without a blood child. That has lead to him being extremely paternal towards the youngsters that he comes across. Furthermore the Magi struggles with his magic usage. When his wife was slowly dying of an unknown curse/disease, Orthur went haywire attempting to cure her using any means necessary. Forgoing his religious beliefs, he refered to the Fel; Shadow and Blood Magic. Doing unspeakable things to enpower himself in the vain hope that it would enable him to heal his wife of her illness. It failed however, and in grief, he fell further into the trap of that type of Magic. That past and vice made Orthur an extremely bitter and powerful man. Only in recent times, inspired by the Call of the Shar and the family he has found himself with, allows him to attempt to diminish the hold that Magic had over him and turn himself towards the Light; or the Ancestors, as his philosophy percieves.

All that together with the modest time I've been RPing him has brought a character that I am extremely happy with. So having used both major ways of forming a character; I've no idea what one worked better for me.

Perhaps I should rephrase. Although I do have a rough history of my charecters upon creation, most of the time I will discover traits about them through roleplay and then alter said past to justify such personality quirks. I also tend to use such terms as Virtue/Vice and Weakness for ever strength, both magically, psyhically and emotionally.

So yes. Simplicity first and then through experimentation deveolpment into complexcity.

I might add to this 'complexity though rp' that the pace of RP usually takes characters through a lifetime worth of experience in a single year. In some respects at least. This is partly what makes it viable to play it that way, I think.

Indeed, I think it's also a fine line between deveolping your charecter and utterly changeing their persona. I mean, There has to be some consideration about what role(s) they are best suited in. I've seen plently of people cherry pick in situations, One moment their the anti-hero, the next the sinless Paladin. A Drunk, a ninja-with-incredible-talents.

Ahh yes, but there is a conflict in time there. Whether it's WoW, your tabletop RP or a book... Characters tend to evolve according to the story and RP that's behind them, not the real life timeline. This is where one hits a problem if you spend a lot of time developing your character.

I had this with JP. At some point I RP'd his development as a Priest and his proficiency with the Light on a near daily basis with several hours a day. I was under the impression that many people RP'd far less for more 'results'. Had I followed their lead in this, JP might have been standing next to Velen (being a bit dramatic here). I just invested that much time in his development.

But this is also where we hit an age problem. Had we adhered a timeline relative to the RP we play with a character, I would have made JP older by now so I could RP his evolution as a person. Instead we are "stuck" with a real life timeline for age and thus it becomes quite invalid to let a character evolve too far beyond his age.

What frustrates me about that is that, imagine we want a character with X powers or political positions, then we need to make a char that already fits the profile since it'll be hard to evolve to such things from scratch. On one hand I'm ok with that, but on the other it is also a problem in its own right. I've seen several RP'ers (and I quote) say "I'm not going to bow or sway for a dude who just rolled an 'older' character with uber status, just because of a written background." I've even seen RP'ers be angry about having that argument against themselves and then use it themselves against another

I don't mean to insult anyone, but this is where I find the community as a whole sends out a hypocritical message. On one hand, nobody wants to acknowledge powers merely because of a self invented background story, but on another hand, too strong an evolution is frowned upon.

What we end up with is being forced to roll "mature but not too old" characters with "great powers, talent and a background for it, but who will train again to have these established in the community". If you look at the typical guild leaders, political players, nobles etc... I see that rule reflected most of the time.

I know what you mean about the age thing, but I find it more fun that way!

My main is still young, and I always find I'm bested by the older orcs! But it's way more fun than already being at full powered. Dramatic escapes, puppy-dog eyes, tears! And then of course, there's all the silly things a younger character can get away with that an older one won't! \o/

Jeanpierre wrote:
What we end up with is being forced to roll "mature but not too old" characters with "great powers, talent and a background for it, but who will train again to have these established in the community". If you look at the typical guild leaders, political players, nobles etc... I see that rule reflected most of the time.

Well, the problem mostly lies with: Where was your character in the past 5,5 years?

and for new characters that cannot have been an influential time on world-events. so you can already be learned, be a wealthy salesmen of lakeshire, be a minor noble of some house, be a veteran soldier NCO/junior officer, a skilled craftsman etc, but you can't have done exceptional things which knowledge would travel the world in the past 5.5 years or everyone else would have heard about it ages ago.

since there's a difference between being trained and being exceptional.

and if nobody knows you, its pretty normal that you'll be tested again and again. just like in real life, where you have to prove yourself again with every new step forward you take.

I've played characters all over the scale.

Klausner my forsaken rogue was about 24~ including his life after death.

Cato is in his late thirties, maybe early forties.

Heydrick my human mage is ~320 years old, I rolled him almost six years ago and I can no longer find whatever nugget of information led me to believe the majority of mages lived extended lifespans similar to Medivh. Maybe it's lorelol but he's too dear a memory for me to retcon now. Nobody ever really complained about it, never having to reference the source is probably why I've forgotten it, probably because two years ago he had a crisis of faith and he lost the vast majority of his ability to use magic (a subconsious mental block) and rapidly aged physically. He now appears to be ninety years old and his health is rapidly failing him. If I still played him he'd probably be due a peaceful death in his cosy bed. He also possesses my favourite item in the entire game, the Titan Forged Slippers of Dominance.

Finally there's Gen, who's sixteen. She's achieved a vast amount considering her age but I blame that on the pace of RP rather than design.

I also justify her abilities by pointing out that I know far more talented individuals her age and reminding people that the youngest person in history to hold supreme command of an entire countries armies was Joan of Arc at sixteen. She was a peasant to boot!

All of my characters struggle with something to greater or lesser degrees. Heydrick is the traditional angsty old man from Lordaeron although it's a little more complicated than that. Klausner probably struggles the least with anything, he's dead and thrilled to bits about it, there is no problem so great it simply can't be ignored and outlived in his eyes. Gen struggles to reconcile her compassion with what she sees as her duty, her relative inexperiance with the command appointments she frequantly takes upon herself or has thrust on her, and especially her pride and anger with what she knows to be the correct move politically. Cato's a simple soldier, his only inner struggles are avoiding referencing the Thief series of games too often with Penrith...

Interesting topic indeed ^^

I play on alot of inner conflict with Jayse. I used it primiraly as a RP tool to show character progression/building. When he started out his whole world had been turned upside down with freinds and colleagues becoming sudden enemies almost overnight. Alone and dealing with some post war mental trauma.

I wanted to see how his expereinces with other characters would shape him and shape him it did. With help he managed (over a long gradual period) to overcome himself and 'get back into the game'.

It made sense playing it this way because its alot of fun and exploration and it allows to show a little 'strength of character' evolving through hardship and trial.

He's not a stone cold killer by any stretch of the imagination (although he is very capable of being if/when it's called for. A due case of Merit). He's constantly tested with almost every assignment. He is a man of king and kingdom but he is so with a concience that weighs often heavy.

An example of this being (from the top of my head) When the trolls attacked westfall. He could (and probably should have) made a beeline on his cycle in pursuit to try and aquire a hostile straggler, but he came across a burning barn the trolls had filled with civilians. He ended up giving up the chase and smashed his bike through the door thus ruining his pride and joy *sadface* but in turn managed to save them from death. With Rping Jayse as an Agent it's a constant battle of moral decision making, and the example given is one where he couldn't simply stand by.

I understand your words, but I'm not entirely sure I understand your point Amaryl. May I invite you to elaborate on it?

I'm not trying to diss older players here at all, nor oppose established characters. I have no issue with anyone in particular. But I have seen new characters played with more depth and thought than some 'old and established characters'. The opposite being just as true, mind you
I, for one, will not judge someone solely by their age in the community.

IC age does lead to conflict if you hope to get anywhere and your char is not the traditional 25-35 years old. As Gene said, there's Joan of Arc... But where she was only 1, there seem to be a great deal of Joans on the server. I too would prefer to see people with such abilities and powers to have a matching history and age. But really, the conflict lies in the difference between the RP pace and RL timeline.

Imagine watching a LOTR movie marathon for a whole weekend, and at the end of the weekend, well.. still nothing happened cause they are still discussing tea and the first page of the introduction on hobbits. Imagine how slow you'd have to read to actually make the story span over the same RL timeline as the timeline of the characters.

Getting a " good " charecter is about reconising what makes a whole person, Just as you would see in real life, in a well writtern book, perhaps even on a television series. A person is not whole without a black or white, no matter how great or small one side is. Here I wanna discuss what you enjoy about your charecters confliction, what drives them to do what they do? What inspired you? and what weaknesses, strengths do you always adhear to when roleplaying that role.

EDIT: Probably went off topic with some responses but eh..

Going off the OP as I havn't really been over the replies yet.

As most know I RP two characters...Or well one at the moment as one recently deceased. Melfeena/Ovelia (Or ICly known as Ireth, whom is the mentioned deceased) and Snow or more recently known as Eira.

At first when I RP'ed Melfeena back six years ago I had no clear directive or fancy story but sticking to the basics of the fel lore while I was learning the grips of it all. It was over the first two years I started placing bits and bobs together to create the "Ireth Story". It's earlier image being that of a hallucinated illusion of a mirrored copy of herself to something more that tied in with an evolving past for the character. I made sure to involve myself with those that were interested in being part of the development on how Ireth came to be through events and books (IC books, I rarely write publicly) which in turn spawned a result I was content with and offered confliction. I wanted to approach the evil benchmark but in a way I felt comfortable with and found those who felt comfortable being the opposition.

I have no definitive inspiration except bits and parts of stories I have read or seen over the years, a collection really. Further more the inspiration is playing a fantasy game itself with the sorcery and inhumane feats offered to where I felt compelled to try my hand at living the life of someone who had decades in the arts and striving to make something of it even if it took real life years which I am glad I went through. I mean we're all giving the choice to Roleplay what we want if it is within reason.

What ultimately drove Ireth was her desire to better herself among her warlock peers and to take on her betters within the history she took from her young adult days and to create a future against those with moral values would not tolerate as for decades she strived on this one goal that was forced on her.

Weaknesses? She had multiple. Her biggest weakness being that she was a hypocrite who thought big. Feigning even her close supposed allies in betrayal plus she was never out for anyone but herself aslong as it benefited her. Her agenda caused her to be pretty much alone in the end. Another weakness was her ability to fall before Elune's grace, an experimental plot twist I started two years ago that worked out for those who ultimately opposed her ways in conflict. I suppose no one really knowing her agenda was another weakness that caused her to finally die.

Strength's? In her belief she thought she was not expendable due to her long nature and exposure to fel and her rather morbid history that gave her determination over those who she deemed expendable (Think of it as the Archerus Death Knights who can't afford to lose their own when WOTLK was out). Oh and the power it gave, oh yes the power..*Hiss*. Another strength I enjoyed was basically any joy or excitment being sucked out of her in the later stages allowing her to deceit on those folks relating to her goal even easier.

TLDR: Overall tho this was all only ever possible due to those who allowed me to approach this kind of Roleplay among them over the years and I am happy that there was appreciation among it(A few didn't agree but eh, you can't amuse everyone). Initially however this RP involved staying away from people you didn't really know due to the whole acceptance aspect of roleplaying something that not everyone can accept which I sincerely understand.

Also Fortesgue, I thank you on the compliment of being a "Good Enemy" (I heard)

Jeanpierre wrote:I understand your words, but I'm not entirely sure I understand your point Amaryl. May I invite you to elaborate on it?

You may xD

I'm talking about the background forming of characters.

As a new character, freshly rolled, he/she cannot have a background, where he did something pivotal in the past 5.5 years or the exact time that DB has been online. since that will obviously clash with the rp that's happened on the server already.

in no part is this a dis to new-players nor a boon for old-players. but it is something that should be taken into account.

it has nothing to do with depth of the rper, or the quality of the rper. or the fact that an older char has more status then a new one, but it has to do with continuity.

you couldn't have played an important part in the Theramore exile as a newly rolled char. but you could have been there as a normal grunt.

and at the end, I don't see any problem with proving yourself, both if you're already an established character or a new one. Just like in real life you need to prove yourself to everyone you actually want to deal with. If you are a general, an ex-minister or joe on the street, when you take on your next project or job. regardless of your age or experience or maybe even because of that.

and just as in real-life, if you're "known" and you "know" the right people ICly your char will be more easily accepted, and "respected". and that is the "bonus" older rp chars have. and even then, if you suddenly move a zone, to another rp hub, you'll have to prove yourself again. that doesn't change the fact that your background is any less deep/extended.

as a guild leader you generally take a "high" position. but that doesn't mean you don't have to prove your skills as an ic leader to the other guild-leaders you work with. Same with their officers and new officers. you never stop proving yourself. old or young, and that shouldn't be a bad thing.

but I understand that the discussion happens, and there in lies a bit of OOC-arrogance "who are you to just be more powerful/important then I? what have you done here for this server?" vs the "i have the right to rp something powerful/important you can't decide what i can or cannot rp!" you see a lot. But icly it just makes sense that you have to prove yourself to people you have never met before once you meet and want to work together/against each other.

Jeanpierre wrote:
Imagine watching a LOTR movie marathon for a whole weekend, and at the end of the weekend, well.. still nothing happened cause they are still discussing tea and the first page of the introduction on hobbits. Imagine how slow you'd have to read to actually make the story span over the same RL timeline as the timeline of the characters.

Well if you read the books they're a little like that. A hobbit can't even walk to market without first observing and explaining in great detail precisely what event shaped a particular group of mountains, where a local species of flower got it's name, or composing a poem about a notable rock they discovered nearby. As Tolkein says in the prologue the chief problem with the books is that they are too short. Not enough space to describe the Misty Mountains in full! D:

But that is the chief problem. The Seal's political clash with the Shields after Barean's escape is an excellent example. One day there was chaos, the next day the Shields were meeting with the Shields and Falrock was imprisoned, the next day he was free, the next day the Seal had gone into self imposed exile whilst the council decided what was to be done etc. That month away from Stormwind was more than long enough from an OOC point of view, but from an IC point of view was it really long enough to launch a full investigation into what had happened, who was to blame, what was to be done? Probably not. Concessions have to be made somewhere and I think everyone would prefer things happened quickly rather than dragged on for years.

Sort of off topic, the first day I rolled on DFB to check it out I stumbled across the Chapter's trial and my character offered his services. His plan to defend the Chapter was quite simple. Demand that every individual members be tried seperately, and each charge proven seperately. Simply put, make the trial stretch on for so long the prosecution would die before it was concluded.

Prosecution was well prepared *grins*

Was good fun that

Well it convinced me to join the server, so bloody productive too I should think!

Geneviève wrote:Well it convinced me to join the server, so bloody productive too I should think!

Haha April fool!

OH.. wait...
(just kidding Gene. <3)


@Amaryl: ahh yes, I would agree. BUT there is one tiny exception to that. A new character doesn't necessarily have a blank history over the past 5 years and neither should it be 'small'. It simply has to fit the lore and this is where the exception comes from: there could be a difference between the lore and the server lore. A simple example: the Knight of the Silver Hand had only a few key figures in the Lore but it is reasonable to assume there were many great Knights working under their command. The player could go for a history like that and assume his character played a significant role to the army in the plaguelands after the third war. This would be entirely fit within the confines of official lore, but could conflict significantly with the server's lore on the plaguelands.

Jeanpierre wrote:

@Amaryl: ahh yes, I would agree. BUT there is one tiny exception to that. A new character doesn't necessarily have a blank history over the past 5 years and neither should it be 'small'. It simply has to fit the lore and this is where the exception comes from: there could be a difference between the lore and the server lore. A simple example: the Knight of the Silver Hand had only a few key figures in the Lore but it is reasonable to assume there were many great Knights working under their command. The player could go for a history like that and assume his character played a significant role to the army in the plaguelands after the third war. This would be entirely fit within the confines of official lore, but could conflict significantly with the server's lore on the plaguelands.

I bolded the words that make it a problem. if you're so great people would have heard of you (or at the very least had a chance to hear of you). if you played such a significant role, like wise. I'm not saying you can't play a knight that was part of the scarlet-crusade and then the argent dawn and then the argent crusade and that you were present at the conflicts those groups fought. you can even say that you had a low-form of command, a section/squad/company. had a squire whatever. you can be damned profficient with the light/fel/arcane etc.

but you can't be the next-best thing since Uther the Lightbringer took a dump that glowed in the holy light. and that you were single-handedly responsible for beating a big named enemy or succesfully led/personally responsible due to your awesome powers for winning a war-defining/turning operation. or being the Pederast target of Saidan Dathrotar.


The difference lies in being Exceptional, and a Hero. and just being a developped char with experience and a past that hasn't left a real note on history as of yet.

that can still mean that you paladin once rescued a patrol from a scourge ambush, and use that as a character-defining moment in his past. or even be arrogant and boastful about it.

But then, i have the same criticism on stuff that happened before WoW started. you can have participated in "important/cannon" events but not in a pivotal/centric role. that counts for old and new characters just the same.

Amaryl wrote:you can't be the next-best thing since Uther the Lightbringer took a dump that glowed in the holy light.

Quoted because I thought it was funny and true.

Amaryl wrote:The difference lies in being Exceptional, and a Hero. and just being a developped char with experience and a past that hasn't left a real note on history as of yet.

Old characters that have been on this server for so long, in reality, will not leave a real note on history either
I think in such wartimes, heroes can be found in many places. Most of them remain anonymous, like the nameless soldier, since there is neither time nor a place to celebrate them or they died in their next challenge... or the people who witnessed it simply had no means to spread the message.

Jeanpierre wrote:
Old characters that have been on this server for so long, in reality, will not leave a real note on history either
I think in such wartimes, heroes can be found in many places. Most of them remain anonymous, like the nameless soldier, since there is neither time nor a place to celebrate them or they died in their next challenge... or the people who witnessed it simply had no means to spread the message.

What Amaryl is trying to say (I think) is that people much easier trust, rely and appreciate a character which has been around for a while and is known to have done certain things, instead of a character who only claims to be/have been important in the past. We also have to face the fact that OOC knowledge over a character is affecting IC judgement even in its slightest measurements, even without this happening consciously.

If let's say a character turned up one day, claiming to have been Bishop for years and have knowledge about handling church related matters, I'd still be inclined to turn towards Fortesgue instead, since I, myself, have experienced his character ICly over the past few years. That's not to say that the new person isn't a good RPer or that he fails on having positive influence. However, the fact that Fortesgue has already been on this realm for quite a while automatically renders his character as more accessible than anyone else in regards to the role of a Bishop. Just an example there about how it's only natural that people easier accept and appreciate what they have experienced themselves rather that which they only know as a tale or a claim.

If I take Mandui's suggestion of a bishop.

and the Newly created characters is a 40 year old dude that has been a bishop of stormwind for the last 15 years. my question would be: where have you been the past years? since a bishop of stormwind is some-one that would definately leave a mark if you were in stormwind for the past few years.

However. if you want to RP a new bishop of stormwind, right off the bat after character creation, you'd better have a background, that you were a hard working priest in one of the chapels/monasteries, pick one and that you have just been raised by the arch-bishop to help oversee the diocese of Stormwind.

your char is still a bishop, and a bishop is supposed to be a dude with great knowledge in the light/power etc, etc etc.

but you're not retconning the entire server history of the stormwind cathedral and the hundreds of rpers that over the past 5 years have rped a close relation with the church or rped there regularly.

its about continuity