Re: Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics

by **Shaelyssa** Sun May 15, 2011 9:01 am

I once heard about a case where a burglar broke his leg when falling down the stairs after he tried to rob someone's house. He then went on to sue that person.

The burglar won the case ...

by **Lavian** Sun May 15, 2011 9:11 am

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sun May 15, 2011 10:20 am

Isn't that in a lot of countries, where the victim (of the robbery) isn't allowed to do anything, else they get sued?
A widely spread "you aren't allowed to protect yourself, your wares, your home".
Alteast that's what I sometimes get when I read the news.

A complicated justice system is flawed to begin with.

by **Jayse** Sun May 15, 2011 10:33 am

Well.. 7 years ago I caught someone from my bedroom window smashing the back window of my car to try and steal my speakers.

I chased him down the street barefoot with a replica katana. Never seen someone run so fast in my entire life. Needless to say, he never came back. Funny thing was I knew who it was and he never came anywhere near me since.

by **Shaelyssa** Sun May 15, 2011 10:50 am

Jayse wrote:I chased him down the street barefoot with a replica katana.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I don't think I've ever pictured anything more hilarious than that in all my life bwahahahah!!!

by **Morgeth** Sun May 15, 2011 10:53 am

Think the "funniest" legal case I've heard of when it comes to Sweden was the case where an underage girl was raped on the night-time train by two men. The first one got sentenced for raping a minor (a year in prison or whatever) the second one only got sexual abuse, despite the fact that he raped her too. I wonder where the logic is in that, if it is because she was already "lubed up" by the previous feller. Suppose then that if you want to rape someone, make sure you're the last in line for it. In that case, if there's a law suit, you might just get disorderly conduct or whatever.

by **Jeanpierre** Sun May 15, 2011 12:27 pm

In Belgium, a woman was released after sitting out a third of her prison sentence... Sad

Her husband had kidnapped 6 (I think?) kids for sexual abuse, and using them for the pedophile network. Their captivity and maltreatment, while being locked in the basement, led to the death of 4 of them. The last 2 managed to be saved by the police... His 'loving' wife kept doing her usual things around the house, knowing very well the horrors taking place in the basement.

Sometimes, shooting people should be legal.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sun May 15, 2011 12:41 pm

Jeanpierre wrote:
Sometimes, shooting people should be legal.

That sometimes is called war : /

by **Muzjhath** Sun May 15, 2011 12:51 pm

Jeanpierre wrote:Sometimes, shooting people should be legal.

On that note. The person who became somewhat infamous as the "Malmö Shooter". From what I am aware of all of the people he did shoot were under sucpision of being a part of the somewhat extensive organized crime scene in Malmö.

And the shit with the train is one of the reasons want to take Sweden's entire legal system out back and spank it for being horribly bad.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Sun May 15, 2011 12:56 pm

Muzjhath wrote: take Sweden's entire legal system out back and spank it for being horribly bad.

It's dangerous to go alone, here, take this.
Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics - Page 20 Justice-system

by **Nithel** Sun May 15, 2011 1:06 pm

More often than you think, laws are there to protect people. Not only to protect us but also to protect the people who commited the crime.

People can be released earlier due to good behaviour. This is partly to make sure prisoners behave well. Prisoners that have nothing to lose and nothing to gain by behaving well are very very dangerous for the guards of a facility.

Same with the law that you can't protect your property with violence. If it would be legal. Thieves would just be prepared that they can be shot at and shoot you first.

There's always two sides to the coin. Laws that you feel are injust now, might just aswell save someone's life one day. But alas, the other way exists too :/ Laws that are meant to protect can very well do the opposite.

by **Shaelyssa** Sun May 15, 2011 1:06 pm

Jeanpierre wrote:In Belgium, a woman was released after sitting out a third of her prison sentence... :(
Her husband had kidnapped 6 (I think?) kids for sexual abuse, and using them for the pedophile network. Their captivity and maltreatment, while being locked in the basement, led to the death of 4 of them. The last 2 managed to be saved by the police... His 'loving' wife kept doing her usual things around the house, knowing very well the horrors taking place in the basement.

Sometimes, shooting people should be legal.

She went to jail because she didn't do anything ... ?

by **Nithel** Sun May 15, 2011 1:07 pm

Shaelyssa wrote:
She went to jail because she didn't do anything ... ?

Neglect yes. It's a crime. If you see someone die and you do nothing to help him. You can be accused of neglect.

by **Shaelyssa** Sun May 15, 2011 1:10 pm

Nithel wrote:
Shaelyssa wrote:
She went to jail because she didn't do anything ... ?
Neglect yes. It's a crime. If you see someone die and you do nothing to help him. You can be accused of neglect.

Really? That sounds very unfair to me ... what if your own well being was at risk?

by Guest Sun May 15, 2011 1:14 pm

You can always do something, even if it's turning your back and calling the police.

by **Muzjhath** Sun May 15, 2011 1:18 pm

She could have told the police while getting a divorce and a restraining order.
I think that "My husband Kidnapps little girls, keeps them in our basement and rapes them" would be a very good reason for the other two.

by **Shaelyssa** Sun May 15, 2011 1:19 pm

I still think that's immaterial though. What if that woman was too afraid to call the police? Her husband might have threatened her or something. I mean, different people have different capabilities. Some people are more strong-willed than others, so I really think that sentencing her to prison is kind of unfair.

I knew that child neglect is illegal but this is ... hmm ... what do I know about law or justice or whatever anyways though heh.

by **Nithel** Sun May 15, 2011 1:25 pm

Shael, they take those things into account when the case is handled.

by **Shaelyssa** Sun May 15, 2011 1:31 pm

Mmm I don't know. People can be very stubborn sometimes though and will probably just think x person is a monster for not doing y and will just convict x anyways. You hate the jury system so I think you can understand where I'm coming from?

by **Muzjhath** Sun May 15, 2011 1:38 pm

Far from all legal systems have a jury system.
For example, in Sweden the verdicts are made up by two educaded people (the judge him/herself, and another trained proffessional) and three laymen. So nothing of the US "Big Jury of having no real clue at all".

by **Shaelyssa** Sun May 15, 2011 1:52 pm

Meanwhile, in other news ...

by **Emrys** Sun May 15, 2011 1:53 pm

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:Isn't that in a lot of countries, where the victim (of the robbery) isn't allowed to do anything, else they get sued?
A widely spread "you aren't allowed to protect yourself, your wares, your home".
Alteast that's what I sometimes get when I read the news.

A complicated justice system is flawed to begin with.

Nuh, it's not exactly like that, you are not allowed to beat a burglar to death with a stick (or to a pulp or something) because that would not be the least agressive way of protecting your belongings (or yourself). You are allowed to 'arrest' him as a civilian when you catch him in the act and hold him until the police arrives, and do stuff like tying him up or making sure he's not going anywhere in some other proportional way. (Not the dead people don't run, harrharr! way... xD)

This is much easier to explain in Dutch, gurrr... Not sure if I got all the words right and that kind of gnaws at a law student ;_;

(And on another note, there are plenty of cases on the subjects of rightful self defence, and it's an interesting subject!)

by **Jeanpierre** Sun May 15, 2011 2:07 pm

Shael... The man's been at it for years. Captured 2, abused them till they died. Captured 2 more, continued his business. She supported him through thick and thin.

I'm sorry, but if my wife does that.. I'll shoot her myself! I expect to be shot the day I'll even think about doing that. For crying out loud.. How much must there happen to a kid before you say "Well shit dude.. Not on this planet you won't!"

by **Nithel** Sun May 15, 2011 2:12 pm

Self defense is simply put: You're allowed to use the means necesarily to protect yourself (not your property)in accordance to the right scale of the threat in front of you.

If a burglar attacks you with a pine apple, you're not allowed to shoot. (You're laughing but this is an actual case.) If he comes at you with a knife however, different matter.

For the subject of property, in Belgium/France you'd be facing charges. You're not allowed to protect it with violence. However if the burglar makes threats on your life while trying to steal your property, that brings it to self defense.

Ps: Shael, I'm with JP on this one. The abuse and killings happened for years and years. I understand the psychological pressure on her must have been enormous but still a society cannot allow this kind of neglect to go unpunished even if she was very weak minded. This case is a very sensitive one for every Belgian citizen I think :/ Especially the family of the victims dear god.

by **Jeanpierre** Sun May 15, 2011 2:37 pm

Nithel wrote:For the subject of property, in Belgium/France you'd be facing charges. You're not allowed to protect it with violence. However if the burglar makes threats on your life while trying to steal your property, that brings it to self defense.

We had some interesting cases in this, in Belgium, where a jewelry vendor shot a burglar in the back. I think everyone but the judge agreed that was the best thing to do. The same burglar had done it 2 times before and the vendor was at the brink of financial ruin for both himself and his family.
I would preferred he shot the man in the leg. Then take a kitchen knife and make some fancy artwork out of the corpse.

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