Re: Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics

[Muzjhath]

True Gnomes > WoW Gnomes.
The true Gnomes thew COWS over BARNS when mad.

[Yarnaat]

WoW gnomes are epic! Just look at this fearsome Gnome Death Knight!

[Lini]

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

I only see undead ._.

[Shaelyssa]

Who cares about that little scum of a rat, he should have got beaten into a bloody pulp. Getting slammed into the concrete is exactly what he deserved, he was bullying a kid 3 times his size to look good in his friends eyes and karma was a bitch. There is no sympathy, there is no 'but he is a victim too', there is only well deserved punishment.

I don't know if you're joking or not, but I'm going to pretend you are ...

Well the school should have taken action against it ... if it's really been going on for about forever then Im sure the teachers would have known about it and shoudl've arranged something with the school councellors. if they dont have any they should get some since obviously letting two angry kids with issues sort it out isnt going to solve the problem -.-

Did you hear what he said? He's been bullied for years, throughout several grades in school. Blame the school, blame society, blame the asshole's parents but don't blame Casey for finally getting fed up and standing up for himself. That fucker got what he deserved tbh. And for the record, counseling doesn't always work either. I know this because I've often seen bullies getting dragged away to be talked to and given the chance to improve their shitty attitude without anything ever changing afterwards. So, firsthand consequences aka. pain is sometimes the best way. I doubt he will come anywhere close to him again.

Did you hear what I said? I never blamed Cassey. Of course it isn't his fault he's being bullied, and I have no idea where you even got the idea that I said or even implied that. What I said was, or meant to say anyways, is that bullies nearly always have underlaying issues and problems of their own that cause them to bully other people. It could be self-esteem issues, empathy/lack of awareness, peer-pressure, whatever.

And it may take more than one time to talk to the bully to actually resolve the issue, Muzjhath. ... sometimes it can take only one session, sometimes three, sometimes it can't be resolved because the issue can get so complicated that it goes beyond the hands of the counselor. But with the people I've spoken to, it was usually just because they were insecure about this and that about themselves, or they just weren't aware of how it made others feel.

(Doing anything more than a quick talk with the chancellor/parents that almost never works in my experiences).

I'm talking about actually counselling, an hour every week or so, not a quick talk ... of course you're not going to get to the root of the bully's problems in 5 minutes.

I'm not saying it's OK to bully somebody, and I'm not saying bullies should go unpunished, but I definitely think that you shouldn't demonize and vilify bullies like that, and that bullies' punishment should come from the school which would be unbiased, rather than from the actual students planning their "revenge" or whatever ... In Cassey's case, he couldn't help it, his emotions got the better of him.

I've never dealt with a case where it got so violent with bricks being thrown around or whatever, but my sort of like "counselling-mentor" as school has told me about certain incidents which got really violent and scary which she had to deal with, and they were nearly all resolved through counselling alone. She has been doing it for around a decade now I think and is moving on to do her PhD or master's or whatever in it. So I think I can safely say that most bully issues can be resolved through counselling alone without having to throw a round a poor, little kid and risk them snapping their spine in half ...

And whatever though in the end, and I'm sorry to say this, I hope your opinions don't and won't matter at all, because I really, really, really hope nobody with that sort of mentality goes on to become an educator. I don't understand how you can possibly think violence is the key to anything, let alone bullying ... I really didn't expect to hear that from people on this forum.

[Unknown]

You get whats coming your way, self inflicted Or not.

Enough Is enough. As A wise man once said, actions speak louder than words...that does not however directly refer to violence but rather A physical form of contact.

[Geldar]

I'm not joking, no. That little rat got what he deserved even if it should have been x10, there is no excuse that would justify that rat's behavior, there is however a excuse for Casey's actions. Its called self defense, provocation, harassment. If anything, his parents should be visited by social services for raising such a piece of social garbage.

[Mandui]

Did you hear what I said? I never blamed Cassey. Of course it isn't his fault he's being bullied, and I have no idea where you even got the idea that I said or even implied that. What I said was, or meant to say anyways, is that bullies nearly always have underlaying issues and problems of their own that cause them to bully other people. It could be self-esteem issues, empathy/lack of awareness, peer-pressure, whatever.

That might be (most probably is) the reason behind his attitude, yes. But as a child you aren't in a position to go that deep and ask yourself why your attacker is being an asshole. Neither is the attacker able to settle whatever issues he may have in a different way obviously. Whatever his issues might be, letting it out on other kids is wrong, no matter how much you try to twist and bend it. Sorry, but I don't give a shit about said issues when he chooses that way to vent. Trying to victimize the offender just doesn't sit well with me.

[Shaelyssa]

I really don't know Geldar, I'm not trying to be "white knight" or whatever: I'm not a "white knight" just cause I can empathize with both sides.

I mean OK, it's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, so whatever; and I'm sorry if I got too emotional in my other post :p. I was just so shocked, I mean come on, what you're saying is a tiny, little bit over the top, to say the least :p.

[Geldar]

Can only say one thing in response:

Trying to victimize the offender just doesn't sit well with me.

[Shaelyssa]

Did you hear what I said? I never blamed Cassey. Of course it isn't his fault he's being bullied, and I have no idea where you even got the idea that I said or even implied that. What I said was, or meant to say anyways, is that bullies nearly always have underlaying issues and problems of their own that cause them to bully other people. It could be self-esteem issues, empathy/lack of awareness, peer-pressure, whatever.

That might be (most probably is) the reason behind his attitude, yes. But as a child you aren't in a position to go that deep and ask yourself why your attacker is being an asshole. Neither is the attacker able to settle whatever issues he may have in a different way obviously. Whatever his issues might be, letting it out on other kids is wrong, no matter how much you try to twist and bend it. Sorry, but I don't give a shit about said issues when he chooses that way to vent. Trying to victimize the offender just doesn't sit well with me.

But why is it the bully's fault he is behaving the way he is? It's not the criminal's fault they're a criminal. It might be hormonal imbalances, genetic reasons, psychological reasons, but it's not the bully's fault he's a bully. I'm not saying the bully shouldn't be held accountable for his actions, I'm just saying a little bit of sympathy and empathy should be spared for them.

[Shaelyssa]

"OK well, trying to villanize the offender doesn't sit well with me either. OK then, discussion's over! I'm right, you're wrong!"

What, Geldar? Seriously? :p That's not a good enough rebuttal.

[Ixirar]

In ground school, a guy in the class above mine was being bullied for 3 years. The last 2 years, the bullies had ongoing talks with all sorts of authority and were forced into councelling.

After 3 years of being bullied, the guy commit suicide. One day, I came to school and the "big announcement of the day" was that the guy was dead. Hanged himself. Just like that.

Sure, violence is not the key to anything, but if slapping the asshole around a bit prevents an eventual suicide, them I'm all for the violence. Afterall, you didn't put dictators or warmongerers into councelling. Nor does the current death row inmates in the U.S. recieve councelling.

So here's a concept for you to consider: The best councellor in the world is life. If you get hurt doing something, that's a good indicator that you shouldn't do it again. If some retard teacher tells you that it's bad and that the retard boy in your class doesn't like it, what should you care? They're both retards and are to be regarded lower than your amusement, right? Well what if the retard boy can snap your neck if he wants to? Not such a funny game anymore.

This was a case of self-defense. That's the language that nobody can argue with and everybody has to reason with it. If you can't beat him up, don't try it.



I'd love to see you confront some of the bullies at my old school though, Shae. You'd get your face kicked in before you opened your mouth, cause that's how the -real- bullies deal with your kind of people. For the record, yes, I tried reasoning with them when they were being mean to some little prick the grade below us. Result? They dropped the kid, started on me. What'd the kid do? He was standing in the front row, helping the others humiliate me. Those 20 minutes I spent on the floor taking kicks and punches while 2 guys were holding me in place so they'd hit me where it hurt taught me an important little thing: You don't reason with assholes if they have no reason to fear you. I'm a lone guy, so those guys (were about 5, all about same size as me, strength wise too) had no reason to not slap me silly. If it'd been one of them and they'd tried bullying me, I could beat him by dirty tricks and teach him a lesson, but if I don't show them that they have to gtfo or feel the pain, they won't give a shit what I think.

That's how the world works, sadly. That Casey is a fucking hero though.

[Geldar]

Thats my viewpoint of the matter, like it or not. Its impossible to defend something that cannot be defended, especially when the world is crawling with such trash as that little piece of scum, especially because when that piece of trash grows up and becomes a valuable part of society.

So many children are getting abused at schools all over the world by such scum and nothing is doing anything about it, there is no system to deal with them, you can't fix their behavior, you can't change them. The only thing you can do is stand up to them whenever they surface and beat them down on the proverbial curb, and I for one applaud this act of justified self defense because it was the right thing to do.

Oh and just for the record, my little brother was bullied for a few years as well in school, he has astma (If that is how its spelled) and he got quite a severe seizure of it after being thrown in a trash can by some people who thought it was cool to do that, people who were a few years older than him, now I got to tell you, beating them up never felt better. He was never bothered again after that, because those people learned afterwards that there is always, ALWAYS, something bigger and meaner than them out there.

[Geneviève]

Throwing out another way of looking at this situation. Aren't we being as bad as this Ritchard kid? I mean, a great many people seem to be taking satisfaction from another persons misery. No matter how well deserved that suffering was we're still wrong to enjoy it.

At the end Casey achieved nothing, in fact, he failed. He lost control and risked causing life threatening damage to a kid much younger than himself. Not only is he fat he's now lost any virtues he once had. Yes he should have defended himself with reasonable force, perhaps that level of force was needed, but he admitted himself that he lost control and -that- is what makes it unjustifiable in my eyes.

Maybe I seem heartless, I've never really experianced bullying personally, but frankly both lads are a waste of space and part of the problem. Society is not to blame for the way they are, they make society the way it is.

I also don't believe counselling in the professional sense will help. Kids need role models who they respect and admire who'll tell them when they're out of line and punish them when they go too far. Physical punishment -is- the best method of adjustig behaviour, but I don't think we can justify teachers beating children. Just have them run a mile and a half every time they step out of line. They'll soon smarten up.

[Shaelyssa]

I'm really sorry to hear that that happened to you, Ixirar ... that's terrible and nobody should have to go through that. But there's a difference between a fellow student reasoning with a bully outside of a counselling environment, and an actual counselor speaking with a bully alone, in a safe and comfortable environment.

Counseling may or may not help them, but I don't think beating them and punishing them like that will solve the root of the problem. The person being bullied should also go into counseling, and maybe a joint session too, as in with both the bully and the bullied person there, with peer-mediation, would help them. I never actually did that, but we did practise it and my mentor has done it in the past and it's been very affective.

And I'm not saying what Cassey did is wrong, Ixirar, and I'm not saying it wasn't "self-defense".

The best councellor in the world is life.

I really like this quote. :]

On a side note, certain inmate in some prisons in the USA do receive counseling. It's a very, very, very big thing in NA and nearly all schools are obligated to have lots of counselors. I guess maybe the same mentality doesn't stretch to Europe which is why perhaps some of you guys haven't really grasped the actual idea of it so well(?). I dunno ...

But wow Ixirar, that's so sad. Like really, I'm so sorry to hear that. How do schools where you live usually get involved in really extreme cases like those? Aren't there security cameras in your school?

[Ixirar]

Councelling bullies didn't help the guy in the grade above me. He's dead now. Good job councelling!

[Shaelyssa]

Genevieve, physical punishment may be the most affective way of adjusting behavior, but I definitely do not think it is the best way.

And I wouldn't say that both Cassey and the other guy are wastes of space ... both of them are only children. I mean, I know personally I'm an entirely different person compared to who I was when I was 11.

And so what if he's fat, Genevieve? You might it sound like he's a bad person because he's heavy! Pft!

[Unknown]

I guess maybe the same mentality doesn't stretch to Europe which is why perhaps some of you guys haven't really grasped the actual idea of it so well

It's -X persons- responsiblity to fix himself, because No one else can do it...be It a small councilor push, A punch to the face or a quick remark from a friend.

what I'd like to call -a big push- feels like forcing someone over the edge, which tends to end up with them landing face first which Is what I think councilors do best, push them over the edge.

But wow Ixirar, that's so sad. Like really, I'm so sorry to hear that. How do schools where you live usually get involved in really extreme cases like those? Aren't there security cameras in your school?

Denmark have teachers patrolling, appearently it's to expensive setting camera's up...then again, I would not have them tape my every action.

[Geneviève]

Britain as a whole has a 'man up' attitude to this sort of thing, seeing somebody about your problems is a sign of weakness. I'm not trying to be funny, that's just the way it is.

[Morgeth]

Physical punishment -is- the best method of adjustig behaviour

Best as in the behavior stops, but with not taking into account what consequences the physical violence has? Because I've read several studies that say physical punishment is hardly the best mean to make anyone stop with anything without fucking them up int he process.

[Ixirar]

My school had trouble finding the money to replace a broken mirror, took them 3 months. Patrolling teachers? That's out of question. We had a policeman with way too much time on his hands visit the school once every 5 months and then that one way-too-happy councellor who would usually sit down and accidently troll everybody into a shitstorm when someone was being bullied.

As a result, my life's been much like Gene's

[Unknown]

I can only say that creating A certain reputation around yourself kept bullies away from my presence, it's a way Of life I choose early because people would never listen to "stop".

[Shaelyssa]

Thats my viewpoint of the matter, like it or not.

I know it's your view point in the matter, but if you're going to participate in a discussion I don't think it's good enough to just blurt out your opinion with little reasoning to it, which is why I thank you and am grateful that you followed up your post like you did. :]

First of all, I never defending the bully's actions. All I did was say he shouldn't be vilified and demonized, like this:

Who cares about that little scum of a rat, he should have got beaten into a bloody pulp.

And no, Geldar, maybe your school didn't deal with bullying - that's the administration's fault. But loads of schools do deal with bullying, I know mine does for sure. But you're probably right, I think worldwide, that yes, most schools don't deal with bullying but that's immaterial. It still doesn't make it OK to vilify bullies, in my opinion.

And Genevieve, I didn't know you were from Britain, but I guess I understand what you mean now. I go to a British school here, and the administration shared that exact same view point. It took so much persuasion for them to allow counselling sessions to happen in school, and there are lots of issues the counselors aren't allowed to deal with; they all end up being sent to the one, single counseling center we have in this country.

[Shaelyssa]

You're going to meet bully's through all walks of life, Tylaen. It's not a nice thing, but it is natural for people to put other people down to make themselves feel better.

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