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"Discipline" priests.. In Character?

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Nayan
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(Goggy) - Exilius
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:10 pm

Haii all. Was pondering a little on this subject with my current side-project and guessed here would be the best place to ask.

Priests have the possibilities of Holy and Shadow... And thus there are those that devote themselves to either, with varying interpretations of both. However.. Is it possible to reach a balance? After looking at how priests in various guilds behave I've only really seen one with affinity to both light and shadow. Being able to help and harm, to a lesser extent of someone specialising in either. I'm still yet to work out how this would pan out.. Would it even be possible? Would the light and the shadow simply cancel eachother out within the individual? Anyone with some more knowledge on the matter?

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Post by (Goggy) - Exilius Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:40 pm

Once you go Darkside, there is no turning back.

There is no grey in this world, only Good and Evil!

Especially in the eyes of the Church of the Holy Light, and the Draenei.

Go good, stick Discipline and Holy.

Turn bad, go Shadow.
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Post by Anjilo Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:43 pm

Anjilo Practices the belief that you can reach a balance between them
"May The light be my Fury and the Shadows my Calm"
"The Light is my Shield and the Shadows my sword!"

Dont believe there is any lore or such on the matter, the concept is mostly open to player interpretation.
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Post by (Goggy) - Exilius Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:49 pm

Anjilo wrote:Anjilo Practices the belief that you can reach a balance between them
"May The light be my Fury and the Shadows my Calm"
"The Light is my Shield and the Shadows my sword!"

Dont believe there is any lore or such on the matter, the concept is mostly open to player interpretation.




know what you'll say, that "shadow is not the same as fire or frost", yes, indeed it isn't, it's merely another school of magic. Peasants would not "hunt" magic users, they live with them, the same way they live with bakers and blacksmiths and stableboys. "Shadow magic" is not "evil magic", you're looking for "Necromancy" here, for "Unholy magic", but not Shadow.

In fact, Elune herself has a dual nature. Shadow is half of it. It's part of the world, nothing that could even remotely be seen as "heresy"

.


Wrong, Shadow Magic is the destructive and pure form of Arcane, alas also Fel Magic, Necromancy etc are all a subcathegory of Fel Magic, and this is the most addicting and purest forms of destructive and physically manipulative magic and energy.

It corrupts as chaos and disorder is it's pure form, negativity etc.


The Elves magic is not the same, for they're empowered by the moon, It's more Nature magic than anything else, S'pose with a touch of the Arcane, but in a culture of the Elves and especially the Draenei, the Shadow is frowned upon, the Draenei if anyone have experienced it's corruption and results afflicted upon the outland and their race in the hands of it's most attuned wielders.

And the Shadow is the opposition to the Light, the Holy.
The population in World of Warcraft actually does frown upon Fel Magic and it's Shadow school.

This isn't harry potter where there's only two terms for magicians, Witches and Warlocks.

But Witch is the feminine term for Warlock, alas, foul magician, afflictor, curser. -Bad.

It's from another thread with a similar discussion, but you can surely make out the message.

And here goes the final Card.

"One of the things you have to realize in Warcraft is, regardless of what they worship, all Priestly power comes from the Light and its dark side the Shadow. It’s just different ways of pulling said power. No worshiped being actually grants any power. Even Elune. The Cult of the Damned has priests in the form of acolytes, remember. They draw upon the Shadow through worship of the Lich King.
The domains are all facets of the Light (and Shadow), chosen and practiced through a particular faiths' rituals and practices.
Whether you worship the Holy Light or Forgotten Shadow (religions, not beings) or not, you still draw upon the Light (source of goodness) or the Shadow (source of evil). This is according to Metzen."
- Adam C. Loyd, WoW RPG developer

"The 'Light' and the 'Shadow' are both philosophies of a sort, but they also tap into universal powers that are at play in the cosmos. Good and Evil are real things – not just ideological distinctions."
- Chris Metzen
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:56 pm

(Goggy) - Exilius wrote:
"The 'Light' and the 'Shadow' are both philosophies of a sort, but they also tap into universal powers that are at play in the cosmos. Good and Evil are real things – not just ideological distinctions."
- Chris Metzen

And as such both can be called upon by the same person, regardless of Worship? A "Good" person may commit evil, and vice-versa (The Cult of the Forgotten Shadow is a good example of the latter.) and so, if the light was not harmful to most worshippers of the Shadow they may call upon it?

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Post by Saevir Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:00 pm

Cyaska wrote:
(Goggy) - Exilius wrote:
"The 'Light' and the 'Shadow' are both philosophies of a sort, but they also tap into universal powers that are at play in the cosmos. Good and Evil are real things – not just ideological distinctions."
- Chris Metzen

And as such both can be called upon by the same person, regardless of Worship? A "Good" person may commit evil, and vice-versa (The Cult of the Forgotten Shadow is a good example of the latter.) and so, if the light was not harmful to most worshippers of the Shadow they may call upon it?

That would be my assumption. Dark Mending and similar "shadowy" healing spells also exists. I assume that those too evil to draw directly on the light for healing instead twist such spells into a darker variant that they can cast.
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Post by Nayan Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:01 pm

http://www.wowwiki.com/Sir_Zeliek
The Light can be summoned for malicious purposes, the Shadow can be summoned for benevolent causes.

As for Discipline... Twisted Evil
Uh... ehm.. wait... no... I meant... Discipline, sorry! king
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Post by Zhakiri Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:06 pm

<.< Nayan...

Anyway, my view on Disc, as the talents and such point out is being able to defend rather than heal. Shields and so forth, in the Light and Shadow arguement...I am one for it depends on the persons personal religious views. As an Arathorian Disc Priest, using the "lore", we somewhat developed on the matter you could heal/damage, but you wasn't that good at either.

I am perfectly aware on the lore sources stating that you only have one or the other...But lets be honest, several other "lore" sources say you can do both and they both come from the same source.

Look at Night Elves and Elune, they in my opinon would be Disc, as they look at both sides of the Moon, its light and its shadow and use -both- sides of the magic. That's solid IC proof that depending on your religion, you can do both.
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Post by (Goggy) - Exilius Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:15 pm

Sir Zeilek is no good example at all, ( Everyone always selects him to shield them D:) becouse he is not in control of himself, his mind is pure so he can still tap the light.

The evil which enslaves him is what brings forth the dark, and you need to be Insane or with a very unique point of view and belief in order to tap both, becouse if you do something evil-aligned thing by purpose and intention.

The Light abandons you.

Just like Nature abandons the Druid and the Elements the Shaman.
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Post by Zhakiri Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:17 pm

Oh and needless to add because your priest is a Belf, Cy...

But Troll's can use em both! /hugs Loa's.
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:20 pm

(Goggy) - Exilius wrote:Sir Zeilek is no good example at all, ( Everyone always selects him to shield them D:) becouse he is not in control of himself, his mind is pure so he can still tap the light.

He may not be in control, but he knows what he is doing (Remember those yells?).

Surely even if there is no will to do the actions, knowingly performing them will still cause the Light to abandon you, or so I would have believed.

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Post by Zhakiri Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:21 pm

The Scarlet's used the Light perfectly fine, because of the frame of mind they was in. Its really perceptional. ;<
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Post by (Goggy) - Exilius Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:24 pm

Cyaska, He wanted nothing of it, alas his mind was pure.

Once you go Darkside by intention, you'll be scarred. Etc etc
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Post by Guest Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:21 pm

Before the midichlorians naaru came with TBC, I saw the discipline tree as some sort of taoist-inspired thing where the powers of the priest comes from his inner focus and understanding of his place in the cosmos.
The old priest description on the create new character screen could hint vaguely at something like that, at least.

But then Blizzard had to pull a Lucas *shakes fist*

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Post by Arinith Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:45 pm

I agree with Saali...
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Post by Winterbloom Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:53 pm

I've always seen priests as a sort of religious mages that draw their powers from a different place or entity than a mage.

They master both shadow and holy spells, but are maybe more specialized in one of the two. Just like a frost mage throwing fireballs, so can a holy priest read minds, for example.

I think it's perfectly alright to role play someone who tries to juggle both shadow and light. In fact, I think it could be interesting. Maybe the two powers seek to gain control of the character?
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Post by Halya Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:45 am

Discipline is what it says it is. Order, self-control, self-awareness, the capacity to restrain yourself when necessary, and to let loose when necessary, too. Discipline magic is just a varied form of effects, for worshipping the light, or the shadow. It was also a convenient idea to give priests their third tree.
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