To all the "evil people" out there. Some concerns

As this is a rp forum I feel that if people read this with an objective mind most should not be offended.Do note this is a general concern and not aimed at anyone in particular


First to all the law breakers out there:

We need bad guys and bad women on this server for the sake of rp. There is no use for good guys if there is no bad guys around still I have a plea to all of you..

If you are a bad guy with too much powers. Try to not use them all at the same time. There is no need to be the “winner” all the time. And even bad guys can’t escape and shouldn’t escape when out numbered all the time.

Second:

When you play a character that does something that might get you arrested and you get arrested I ask this of you, all of you..

1. Fleeing when surrounded by people without giving them the time to actually “stop” you, is not nice. If you can’t handle being arrested don’t play a bad guy.

2. When chained, cuffed, shackled.. I don’t want please, to see more people “break chains off the wall”, “teleport” out of a deeply guarded building (especially when there are IC guards next to you.

We “good guys” don’t have to “win” every time. But for prisoners to regardless of class, regardless of anti - magical barriers that we all should have in our cells, to use invisibility potions, or emote teleportation’s out of chains and god knows what, ruins more rp than it creates.

Not all of you of course but some do ruin a lot for people by doing such things.

I don’t say people cant escape, be rescued and so on. But keep it realistic. If you have to log off or go to a raid… Then do so ooc’ly.. There is no need when you will be Ic’ly kept entertained with rp.. To escape in “non logical” ways. So for the sake of rp.. If you don’t want to get in trouble.. Don’t make it.

This may sound harsh but even the little time I have been a member of SWO.. I have seen enough of these “un logical” powers and ways to escape.

Which brings me to number 3:

If you intend to rp a character be it an arch druid or arch mage/anything else that is powerful and makes you master 1-3 different specs of magic..

Keep it more real. If you master all 3 equally well, then make some weaknesses for your self. This is rp. Not the “who will be the next God on Defias”. We all have weaknesses. I don’t think I have “won” any “battle” yet and I don’t mind not winning over the “bad guys”, most of them we can not even kill by the IC laws. And as we certainly can not kill anyone without their permission, a little beating or time in prison goes a long way.

So please. For the fun for both sides… Don’t be a God and flee in ways that doesn’t by an inch… Seem logical.. Its just as fun to take a beating now and then as being the one who gives it.

My suggestion is simple: We wont cut off limbs, we may perhaps (cough) torture you some if none is watching, but we wouldn’t harm you character in the same way as your char most likely would harm any of us “good guys”. So why not try to keep the power to a lower point, make more rp with more realism to it (not that world of warcraft is that realistic but still).

Capturing cultists, thieves and anyone that breaks the law provides many with rp.
If you teleport when chained to a wall, I for one have less desires to care to try again. I will depending on the situation as my character would. But in some cases I too do what I don’t like and say /care eventually.

So any suggestions you evil people out there? As I do know most of you behave I still would like some words and ideas.

Nice post. Describes it well. I remember back awhile back some RP'er...Erm two people actually held up Dragomir and I back on my paladin venora in the catacombs with some others and were practically immune to any form of attack the whole time. I was like -_-*.

And as someone who does RP an evil person [Even though she's a ghostly undead at this point, Ireth] I do have to keep my "powers" in check with her story and history. Her biggest weakness what Dragomir actually figured out ICly back in her life was the effects of Elune's magic. So those guys out there being bad, having a big flaw can be fun as hell.

To quote Khardin on a post in another topic: https://defiasrp.forumotion.net/out-of-character-f2/discussion-crime-and-punishment-in-stormwind-t49-15.htm

You often end up with the situation of people being openly evil since they know there is no real come back. There's no way to make the everyday (NPC) guards attack them on sight or ban them from the city. It would be nice if it could happen, but unfortunately it can't...

"Evil" characters need to be aware that their actions should have long-lasting consequences not just with other player characters but the cities as a whole. Hiding behind the "I want RP freedom to be evil" it just a bit like sticking two fingers up to all those people who are role-playing the reverse, as without agreement there is no real lasting punishment available that really would actually happen. I'm not saying that everyone should be thrown into the Stockades the moment they push past someone in the bank, but the same as people shouldn't be wandering around openly flaunting their "I'm a big bad-ass" card without anything happening.


This is some of the attitude I want changed. People oocly sobbing because they are in trouble, when they make trouble is also a very spread phenomenon these days.. And I dont see why they wont actually face the concequences of their own doings..

Hm, I gather this is aimed at RP in capitals and in-faction.

I myself don't participate in hostile RP interaction that doesn't use the independent mechanics provided by the game.

This is a major concern of mine: RPers want to use words to settle their hostilities instead of using the mechanics this game about war provides, arguing that everyone is "equal" despite level, gear and all such.

Though even keeping that in mind, I'm also up for RP /duels that aren't all-out. Simply for the sake of using the special effects and spells the game provides.

So in short: don't chain people up and expect them not to break free. You are giving them non-existent restrictions and ones that aren't even exciting and graphically fun.

I myself do tend to support the essence of this thread, because villains are so much more awesome when they aren't all-powerful, plus, I find it really fun to RP villains losing/failing, since they get to swear vengeance, try to gain even more power to desperate results, etc.

However, I still advocate using the game's mechanics as independent restrictions. This is important to allow everyone to be on the same ground. It prohibits power-gaming, god-moding and so on.

So I add my support to the essence of what's been said in this thread, but I also want to add one piece of advice from myself: whether you're a good guy or bad guy, don't whine about levels and gear; gain them like everyone else and use them to overpower your enemies under independent restrictions that everyone is restricted by, not by words, like in some text-based RPG.

This is where it becomes important who you RP with. Some people have an understanding of limitations and of how far they should go. Some just don't.

One note, regarding what Malanar mentioned right above : "RPers want to use words to settle their hostilities instead of using the mechanics this game about war provides, arguing that everyone is "equal" despite level, gear and all such."

Thanks for bringing this up. This is a very thin balance right there.

Example 1, a random lvl80 who has zero past, zero experience, zero expertise in combat, and a lvl64 who has been steadily RPing and is regarded a seasoned guard. If "lvl matters" to an absolute degree (which I am sure lvl80's are generally in favour of ;p ), a nobody with zero experience coming out of nowhere, will 100% smash a seasoned guard, based on game mechanics. Wrong.

Example 2, a lvl4 in loincloth coming out of nowhere, claiming to be "a fierce and powerful paladin, elite guard of Stormwind", and a lvl80 simple guard. If "lvl doesn't matter, all are equal", a lvl4 in loincloth will have equal chances to smash the lvl80 guard. Wrong.

Level does matter, just not definitively or absolutely. It depends on the character's background (and I don't mean the background someone cooks up with nothing to back it up, I mean the actual ingame past), it depends on the situation (intoxication, fatigue, focus, circumstances), it depends on the IC skills, it depends on the level (levels, imo, are indication of experience. but that's in a "perfect world". Perfect worlds -in this case- have everyone being IC from lvl1 to lvl80, no server transfers, no logouts, etc ), it depends on so many things that you can expect frustration more often than not.

This can be a equal issue in Stormwind, with the large amounts of people who want to (or claim to want to) RP, or in Orgrimmar where you get all the amazing superpowerful lvl80 heroes in t9 who are "immune to being robbed" because they are so awesome.

It's good to build up power and raise struggle and conflict as your char would do so, but it's not good when in your mind you "have to" win. When both parties predefine in their head that they are the ones to "win" the fight, then both lose, the fight is lost and RP loses.

And Indranie, nail hit on the head there. It's all about awareness. You've seen my chars having "strong" moments, you've seen them having "weak" moments. That's what it boils down to, if people care to improve things a bit. Noone is "strong" or "weak", they just have strong and weak moments. And they need to balance around those the same way they do irl. Ups and downs. Good and bad. Strength and weakness.

Not sure if it makes much sense as I say it here, maybe I need more coffee >_> But yeah, summarizes to keep a measure. Nothing is absolute.

Having played a cultist for a long time in the past I can safely tell you that there is another end of this stick. Cults are usually small whereas in the past atleast guard guilds are heaving, if someone wants to openly attack someone on the cathedral steps then it should expect to get arrested but say if a group of them want to hold a secret meeting in the basement of the Lamb. Why the heck shouldn't they? At times, like when a ton of guards swarm into the Lamb and demand to be let into the basement, and at other times that the sheer numbers of them prevail it gets awfully hard to enjoy being a cultist. You say that we should expect to be arrested, yeah totally in some situations but I think it's totally fine for once in a while to let that one slip, let him get away with it.

Why? Well because playing a cultist has it's limits already. You say they can't escape prison well that's just as much forcing something on someone as a criminal stabbing em. Ooc morality comes to play whilst playing a cultist whereas the noble guard has none of that. Not to mention that anyone playing a cultist does so only to rp to a goal they can never get. Blow up the cathedral? Only one of many examples of a plot that cannot happen as the next day the majority of rpers would Rp as if it never happened...

if you want to say that people shouldn't be able to escape your grasp well you have to say that they have an equal chance to be able to do so. Because at the end of the day they are the ones that create your RP, as a guard you need a criminal for there to be any point in your Rping, however unlike the average cultist when you go off duty you can go grab a cold one in the Blade, yeah..Well they can't. Thats the RP they choose and they -do- have to accept that they can never win, but geez. It would be nice if they did.

My powerlevel is 10 times greater than his! RAAUUUGH! *smashes things with mindblasts*

Anyways both sides have bad apples and this is how it has been for a veeeery long time. I have RPed a evil character since the 1st day of Defias. I admit that originally the character turned out to be bit overpowered in terms of strenght, but I have toned him down alot. I have learned to rely on more subtle skills to survive situations and hiding my actions rather well.

I have seen my fair share of world-destroyer class dark knights who plot to destroy Stormind Council and go running around "Oh I'm so evil!"

And I have also seen another large bunch of crusading space marines and overpowered spellcaster arcane magisterlords and whatnot. Oh not to forget Paladins... pheeeew.

I think a large crux of your issue is when you incarcerate someone, you need to keep role-playing with them. Nothing is more boring than being locked up icly, and then just sit there with nobody around. This essentially disables you to role-play the character you like to role-play, because you are meant to be locked up, and there is nobody there to role-play with because your wardens have wandered off to do more interesting things.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't lock someone up. If they've decided to play an evil character that's their choice and as such there should be consequences. I am however saying that you should stay and role-play when you do, otherwise it defeats the point of role-playing entirely. They shouldn't be punished oocly for playing an evil character.

After having read this posts I felt inclined to reply, but in fact Avaiel above me put it rather good.

I understand that it is frustrating to have your prisoners escape all while you're sharpening the axe.

The reason for this is that, more often than not, being punished IC leads to OOC punishment aswell. The classic example is being locked up in the stockades for weeks without seeing RP at all.

There are several ways to solve this, but they all include OOC communication, so remember to keep your IC stuff and your OOC stuff seperated!

1) Solve it on the spot. You're ten guys, you've got this one nice and pinned. You want some sort of reward for what you have done.
You throw him and OOC whisper and asks him what you can do to his character. Or even better: You come with a suggestion and asks if he can agree (eksample: "Okay, we get our mage here to probe your mind for a single useful piece of information" or "we break your arm and throw you in the river").
This solves the situation on the spot, it rewards the IC winners IC and punishes the IC loosers IC. However the good guys get to keep the secret that they did not go to the guards or get to brag to all their friends that they send a cultist back to the hellhole he came from and the cultist gets to find other cultists that can heal his wounds and plot his wicked, wicked revenge against the good guys.

And this works the other way around aswell, bad guys can solve things on spot aswell!

2)The long way. You insist on putting this guy on a trial, which involves imprissonment.
You need to whisper him OOC first:
-Tell him exactly what you are going to do. If you promise someone a trial within 24 hours, the next evening or so, they are much less likely to run away. Important: This requires that you actually know what will happend, which means you'll have to get a judge, evidence, etc. ready for what you promised him, if you want to keep your reputation as a good good-guy.
-Tell him the degree on which you intent to harm his character. If you promise someone that they will escape this without any permanent harm, then they are more likely to work with you.
-be prepared for compromises. Even if you think it is fair that you cut off someones hands and feed it to your dogs, they might have a slightly different point of view. Be prepared for this and have alternatives ready.

This obviously requires you to do a bit more work, but it also has the potential of turning into great roleplay. RPing through a trial can be a lot of fun for a lot of people, especially the cultist, who gets to be at the core of everything! But it needs to be done correctly, which requires some work, both IC and OOC.

I hope this turns out to be a help. If required you can throw me a PM, reply here or catch me ingame. OOC communication between lawbreakers and lawenforcers is very important.


On the subject of powergaming: I don't like powergaming any more than other people do. I avoid it at all costs, I tell my members and my friends to avoid it at all costs.
There is a major problem in the fact that it is impossible to messure power in character.
How strong is The Sphere exactly? If I assault Lexius, who would win? Impossible to say, since we cannot compare the amount of IC power the characters contain. It becomes even harder when you do not know the other character. I would not view it is a powergaming if someone like Fortesgue just deflects a shadowbolt of mine with a holy shield, even though if some random light-follower did it I would be slightly offended.

I give this advice to my acolytes: If someone intents to powergame you, he will powergame you no matter what. Don't try to fight it back, just play by the rules and lead by example.

1.. I have been a "evil" char more then one time. And in the situations happening so far, we havent abandonded our "law breaker". At least I havent when I have been online. Our policy of the guild and what we do... Makes it "wrong" to not try to trial anyone doing bad deeds.

"Caught" in the moment situations where the "bad guys" dont get to do what they are doing has in most cases lead to them "teleporting" off.

IC getting caught shouldnt lead to ooc problems.

The whispering of them being captured is one thing. We dont abandon our prisoners but none of us as members of SWO can promise a trial within 24 hours. As we need to the council to even keep a prisoner for more than 72 hours.. So my point returns. I do see why "law breakers" dont want to be in jail but when surrounded, when cuffed, and not running which we provide the option for.. Teleporting by a flask when taken to the prison then.. Is.. Sorry just off too me.

I have like I said be

Mordazan@:

1. We are SWO supposed to be SI:7 agents, who shouldn’t work as guards but if we do stumble right into it we will arrest like we are allowed to. But.. Your suggestion 1: = breaking our ooc and ic rules. Still nice suggestion^^

2. In the cases of escaping in such ways so far these situations have been a part of it:

1. Person walks into a fully crowded si:7 headquarter with npcs (they cant do shit) and hey…. 5 si:7 agensts ic. Person tries to attack one of them, gets overmanned and brought to a cell.

= If a bad guy is arrogant enough to walk into SI:7 to attack one of their agents.. I don’t really think asking the person ooc’ly if I can arrest the person is really needed? The person was not left alone and when discussions was made involving the prisoner it was taken within hearing range oocly. As well.

And this prisoner teleported away like most others at least this one had such an ooc ability.Which is a faint comfort.


2. Bad guys attacks a lot of nice guys. SI:7 SWO stumbles over it on a daily walk.
1. We let the bad guys leave.. Before we started asking the victims for testimonies and details.-
2. The bad guys allowed to flee in this case, returns. One runs off without any chance to prevent the said person, the other agrees ooc’ly to that we can arrest but when it the cell uses potion and “teleports” away..


I am not saying most people do this. So it usually isn’t a problem, but some people seems to have a fear of you’ve mentioned. Being thrown into a cell and forgotten for weeks.

If we have a prisoner though we will alert the council. Gather evidence and hope for a quick trial- When I am not on work or at the uni, my first priority is a prisoner as you mentioned.. Being locked up and out of rp is not fun.. But you can rp with your guards and they should be there when they are online..

Here are some tips for the evil guys out there, I used them when I played Rovena in the Dark Sphere cult.

http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=30

Dorik Thunderbelly wrote:Here are some tips for the evil guys out there, I used them when I played Rovena in the Dark Sphere cult.

http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=30

Omg Rovena *goes to find some rope and her oversized gun* Hunting time!

I believe that playing an overpowered character is okay, but one needs to tread very lightly upon that ground, such as limiting oneself to scripted events and getting into situations with the knowledge of predetermined endings, which sadly means sacrificing a lot of roleplay possibilities.

Personally, I tend to keep Ax out of random confrontations nowadays (with the occasional exception), for the simple reason that she has grown rather mighty (not necessarily overpowered, there must always be flaws!) over the past four years I've developed the character. I'm confident to say she's been through -a lot- and pitting her full power against a simple citizen or guards of average strength, not willing to yield before her, would undoubtedly end up in drama and flames. I restrain myself to subtle plotting, but should a situation arise where the good come to crush the bad, I see nothing wrong in pulling a Lich King, "vanishing" before the whole cavalry arrives.

As power cannot be compared without mutual agreements with all the parties involved, I find this to be the best solution, and I'm sure we know of several characters who have followed this simple rule of self-discipline examplarily.



As for the matter of arrests, I've held it as a general rule in the past to always try and have an accomplice in the shadows, witnessing captures in order to facilitate a plausible rescue(attempt) at a later point. That being if the criminal has been processed as expected, stripped of all belongings (invisibility potions, communication orbs, hearthstones etc.) and put into anti-magic chains and so on.

Malanar wrote:Hm, I gather this is aimed at RP in capitals and in-faction.

I myself don't participate in hostile RP interaction that doesn't use the independent mechanics provided by the game.

This is a major concern of mine: RPers want to use words to settle their hostilities instead of using the mechanics this game about war provides, arguing that everyone is "equal" despite level, gear and all such.

Though even keeping that in mind, I'm also up for RP /duels that aren't all-out. Simply for the sake of using the special effects and spells the game provides.

So in short: don't chain people up and expect them not to break free. You are giving them non-existent restrictions and ones that aren't even exciting and graphically fun.

I myself do tend to support the essence of this thread, because villains are so much more awesome when they aren't all-powerful, plus, I find it really fun to RP villains losing/failing, since they get to swear vengeance, try to gain even more power to desperate results, etc.

However, I still advocate using the game's mechanics as independent restrictions. This is important to allow everyone to be on the same ground. It prohibits power-gaming, god-moding and so on.

So I add my support to the essence of what's been said in this thread, but I also want to add one piece of advice from myself: whether you're a good guy or bad guy, don't whine about levels and gear; gain them like everyone else and use them to overpower your enemies under independent restrictions that everyone is restricted by, not by words, like in some text-based RPG.

I would have agreed with you if the in-game mechanics were not so greatly flawed to use in rp.

Simple example's, you can't close/lock doors or gates, you can walk right through other players, you can not actually grab someone, you can not fight (duel) within cities, mounts magicly appaer and dissapaer when you mount or dismount and I am sure there are more example's out there.

The only thing in-game mechanics seem to offer us are duels. And as said you can not duel everywhere. Besides duels are also decided on the gear you use. Meaning you have to use the best gear you have which is not always the gear that suits your char ic. Yet another factor. If you go for the best stats you can not wear the gear you like to use ic in your rp. For example I want to wear guard gear. But it's a lot less strong then other gear out there that does not look like guard gear but in reality would be equally as strong. And even so, duels themselves lack orginality and divercity to my opinion.

So basicly I don't see in-game mechanics offering us much to rp with. Unless there are in-game mechanics you had in mind I did not think of. If there are let me know I would love to use them.

Lexius wrote:So basicly I don't see in-game mechanics offering us much to rp with. Unless there are in-game mechanics you had in mind I did not think of. If there are let me know I would love to use them.

The variety of gear available is enormous. Everyone can look their role in the highest level gear possible. It simply takes more time to gather items than if you were to just throw on whatever epics you get and look like a clown.

I am always, and I mean always in battle gear during RP since I always expect either to be attacked or do some slaughtering myself.

Furthermore, excusing power-gaming and general hostile RP without using independent mechanics by pointing at what the game doesn't have is a flawed point, since the game does indeed offer /duels and all such.

However, I will say that I am willing to go along with some not-so-friendly RP and give in as well, just as long as such events aren't too extremely common.

But to my knowledge, that's just about the vast majority of the kind of RP that goes on in Stormwind and such. Hence, I'm a proud member of the Horde, heh.

You know all those cheesy movies that you see where the big-bad villain boasts about his past crimes and his super plot... then the hero always finds a way to defeat him with that knowledge? That wa a pretty bad idea on the big-bad villains part, wasn't it? The frustrating part for some is people taking their villain character cues from Dr Evil from Austin Powers. Over the top, open and boastful. Then when "what goes around comes around" actually does come around, they disappear in a puff of smoke and a flash of light.

Having someone perform an evil act and then disregard the roleplay consequences is a particular source of annoyance for anyone trying to keep order. While it may be "no fun" to have to put up with being incarcerated, punished or apprehended every time your character is seen - there is a common factor that links why roleplay is going that way. Keeping crimes secret is a winner. Good guys should only get wind of your super plot through hearsay and clues, not by walking up to them with flaming eyes and declaring death to their king/leader/captain/whatever.

Yes, good can't really exist without evil. And not having villains would be boring roleplay. But the super villains of Warcraft are consigned to their lairs because everyone in a city would either try to kill them or run screaming. So if you want to be the next Arthas, then that's the two choices of reaction you're going to have to your character, really. Villains who vanish one day and reappear the next as if nothing happened are probably number one on my try to avoid for RP list. Not even bothering with disguises or even trying to be anything but blatant about it. You'll be able to spot them as they'll walk up and down past the guards, usually doing something conspicuous or looking suspicious. Yes, interaction is good. Yes, roleplay in most forms is excellent. But wandering around in full on evil gear and all-but yelling "Mwahaha" isn't the best way of going about it for me. And there are a few. But that's the cheese to go with my whine, I guess.

All I'm saying is that "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime". Saying to someone "don't be in Stormwind for a month, as your character is locked in the Stockades" is very lame, I agree. No one should have roleplay taken away from them if they want it. But some middle ground has to be found - agreeing to be locked up for a few days (with related roleplay with guards for more than just a few minutes each night) before escaping. Or being allowed to escape overnight but on the condition that if you're spotted in the city looking the same (i.e. in full evil-guy gear, or without at least visiting the barber and tailor to try to hide your identity) then the roleplay will just be deja-vu, all over again:

*Evil guy does something blatantly evil to be centre of attention*
*Guards are forced to chase evil guy or go against their IC ideas*
*Evil guy uses potion/sprint/vanish/hearthstone to disappear*
*Guards go back to their other roleplay*
*Evil guy reappears: seconds, minutes, hours later - usually in the same spot*
*Evil guy does something blatantly evil*
...

Repeat ad infinitim.

Role play for me is as much about character development as anything else. Having a catch-all generic evil character to start is great. Lots of fun for all. But never develop beyond those boundaries and forever be the one dimensional evil-guy and people will be slapping the palms to their faces everytime they see you nearby, just waiting for the chase and escape session to begin.

Yes, I'm elitist. But the same as someone won't join a raid with someone who ninjas items, I don't really want to role play with someone who just wants to steal attention. And, sadly, quite a few evil role players are out to be the centre of attention.

As for using in game mechanics... well if you want to role play only when you're level 80, then fine. But a lot of the fun is role playing as you develop a character and level them up. Not just grinding to 80 so that you can't get defeated in a duel because you want to stop someone with a daemon wandering around in a city. If you're always expecting to battle in your role play, then your role play situations differ greatly from mine. PvP is dominated by people with the best gear, I'd prefer role play not to be the same thanks. Some of us only play casually.

I hear you and I understand your point, Khardin. Evil and powerful is not a two-for-one package. Though it may seem like more fun to play the evil mastermind, it is something that requires tons of tons of work, since you need everyone else in on it. Some people don't see this and think they can go directly to the "now you die" /cackle fase.

That said, I cannot say that I have seen the pattern you describe. The way you say it I imagen someone walking into cathedral square in full nemesis (warlock t2) yells "death to The Light" and throws an infernal after the nearest person.
I have not seen or heard of anything like this. Perhaps it is because I linger too far on the dark side of life?

Sure, there are "omg evil folks" yells at times, but that is usually when people are specificly looking for evil people (IE it is not the bad guys looking for attention).

There is one simply rule that applies to a successful villain and it never fails. Cunning. A true villain will never reveal him/herself as such, will not allow his/her doings to lead back to him/her and will at all times keep a low profile, peering behind the corner of that dark alley to watch the havoc he/she caused, while already crafting future plans. This becomes even more interesting when the villain is amidst well respected social circles.

I believe that acting behind the scenes, causing pain and death, without having anyone ever know or even suspect it was you who did it, is far more rewarding than boasting openly about it.

It takes all sorts to make a world. Subtle and glaringly obvious alike.

This thread makes me want to RP on mah rogue ;_;

I'd argue there is no such thing a successful villain in WoW. Since there is not way for us to change the world, which is what most villains are about, you have to commit to failure.

Doesn't mean the ride can be enjoyable though, it should be, that's what RP is all about.

@Mandui: Yes, that's one type of villain, but there are others as well. I do admit that is my favored type as well though.

Ataris wrote:I'd argue there is no such thing a successful villain in WoW. Since there is not way for us to change the world, which is what most villains are about, you have to commit to failure.

Doesn't mean the ride can be enjoyable though, it should be, that's what RP is all about.

@Mandui: Yes, that's one type of villain, but there are others as well. I do admit that is my favored type as well though.

I don't think there is a succesfull good guy either. The bad guys always come back to create more havoc. From the start 5 years ago cultists ran duskwood. And they still do. And over the years they have hurt (and even killed) people (people like lexius and his friends) directly and indirectly. And the goal of any good guy is to free to world from all evil. Obviously they aren't even close to succes.

So anyway seems like we can shake hands and say we are in this together

Indeed.

Mandui wrote:There is one simply rule that applies to a successful villain and it never fails. Cunning. A true villain will never reveal him/herself as such, will not allow his/her doings to lead back to him/her and will at all times keep a low profile, peering behind the corner of that dark alley to watch the havoc he/she caused, while already crafting future plans. This becomes even more interesting when the villain is amidst well respected social circles.

I believe that acting behind the scenes, causing pain and death, without having anyone ever know or even suspect it was you who did it, is far more rewarding than boasting openly about it.

Yes, this is good examle of how to play a mastermind, or overall manipulative schemer, aka Emperor Palpatine esque baddies!

But there are many different categories for villainy and non good characters.

Take mine for example, The Phantasm (Villager hyperstition)
This is no manipulative or infiltrating cultists or sly'scum, but a foul being, more of a direct threat and opponent. A Nazgúl esque whatever, instead of a say Sauron/ evil entity. A presence in the woods, rarely witnessed but constantly fellt by the people, as people are actually dying, and supplies and resources are low, due to the forced isolation and the effects of the fear inspired which hinders the denizens to leave the village. Not becouse of Exilius being ever'present on the roads, but through the psycologhical effects of fear, fear to be next, should one dare to leave the questionable safety of their homes.

There are many other villains and negative influental gits for example: As I've now taken Lotr as example, (since it's such a badass movie trilogy), there is the Gollum, that untrustworthy ill'willed kind of being, messenger of ill news and proposals such as the Mouth of Sauron (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK8KjVbHO9c)

There is the traditional Highwayman, praying the popular roads for well adorned merchants and travellers, and etc.

Changing some of the subject at hand, yeah roleplaying a villain, or an obstacle upon the way to peace and tranquility, aint easy.

Becouse frankly, goodies want to defeat bad, and it's usually in the way of amassing an angry mob, or some stalwart great champion wielding a mighty sword, worn by heroes before him, that comes and well, in cross'faction, due to game mechanics, one get's steamrolled.

And there is a chance that, no matter whom or what one plays or whatnot, one is smashed, spat upon, walked past by and then labeled, as weak and gone!

Or the previours example someone wrote, the recurring villain, La' DR.Claw appearing, laying some prank, withdrawing or being defeated, and then returning again!, and again, and again... and again... and a-

Well, I personally try to keep Exilius from making many appearances, aleast not before larger crowds, as I feel that it is a perfect way to maintain that mystery, the casual bump in and suprising confronation and the feeling which comes with it, is a balanced way and from there on, develop things in a steadily slow pace.

Nyergh, I don't know how much sense all of this made, but hopefully atleast one or two sentences contributed something to this discussion instead of all being gibberish ;_;

Exi...L2read your PMs.

Walls of text.

I do rp-duels and emote battles.
Though I do not roll for the emote battles, I simply go for the realistic.
If the other player can't accept he roleplays a drunktard with no fighting skills whatsoever yet when in emote battle can beat down the warlord of the alliance, I generally walk away, because he needs to change his view on his own rp.


Also, for all the "good guards". Or should I say agents?
I find it rather silly that an agent believes he can arrest people, when a "Warcraft" agent = spy and information-gatherers.
They should tell guards what they know whom will act from that.

And they shouldn't wear cultist-alike gowns and act like cultists.
This is after all always (now talking about general guards) deppending on both sides. Guards can't be TOO op, nor can random generic evil-dude.