The House of Nobles - A discussion

I like starting my character out as a no one, or somewhat of a no one at the very least. But in the end the goal is always to make the character into someone. To me that is the essence of RP and character development.

Let's keep this on topic, regardless of who RPs a noble and who doesn't.

For those who do, and those interested in the general idea of a House of Nobles, would it work? Should it work? Should it be done?

My thoughts thusfar are that it would be a great addition to the RP community, but that it should be open to all sorts of nobles - anyone who wants to play a noble - and thus not have much political weight and merely be an interesting RP institution so that we nobles can bitch at each other over the state of the realm. Those who want to disagree, feel free, this is a discussion thread after all!

Sounds most plausible to me. Having nobles hosting their own form of meeting where they bitch about how the King doesn't give them enough privileges sounds fun, and I'd be sure to show up to such meeting just to watch how it fairs.

The question is, would there be enough people? Who would be a part of it? Stormwind nobles only, or even those that are nobles of other nations but who currently resides in Stormwind?

Well a small number wouldnt necessairly be bad imo, I mean nobles should not be overrepresentated compared to the rest of the population anyhow. Since this is a Stormwind matter in the sense that this is the Stormwindian house of nobles, I'd say Stormwindian nobles only (feel free to disagree and explain your pov).

In terms of balancing the RP community I can see that alot of players would not like the idea of nobles having more influence "hands on". Because of this I can understand lessening the house of nobles priviliges and power from what it imo should be in the WoW setting.

Perhaps an idea would be to have representatives from the house of nobles, maby even just one or two seeing after the bigger intrests of the house at Council meetings and such. Of course this would also mean that the nobles will have a chance to meet in private and discuss what their intrests are once in a while wich would lead to a nice noble society with disputes among houses, bonds between houses and general sublte backstabbing.

Now the exact mechanics of this I would not know, I wouldnt know if this was the best choise either but it is a suggestion. As I said on the first piece feel free to disagree and explain your pov

I'd -like- to say that Stormwind nobility would be the only participant, but for everything outside of the semi-political stance, there wouldn't be a massive requirement for it.

I imagine if your character is nobility from an area such as Lordaeron, and no longer has a home because of it, or have been residing in Stormwind for some years, I wouldn't see any reason they'd be disallowed. Nobility from other lands that still have their home, however, I'm not so sure on.

Invited to parties etc, yeah. But beyond that, I have to wonder where the logic would lie :p

What if Stormwind nobles invite out of town nobles and want to use them during one of those meetings?

The House of Nobles

I did some brainstorming after reading this thread and here is what I came up with. If anything is unclear, please notify me and allow me to explain further.

I think any RP initiative or organisation should be founded on the themes and moods of it, I have done so myself.

Themes – Scheming, backstabbing and in-fighting, abuse of power, secret alliances, dark secrets, high society hobnobbing, feuding, honour, noblisse oblige, individuals.

Moods – Intrigue, corruption, glory with darkness under the surface, aloofness, power.

What I would like to underline two things here that I find to be defining for nobility RP as I envision it:

Dark Secrets – All nobles should have skeletons in the closet and if someone would find out about these, they would hold powerful sway of over those nobles.

Individuals – Nobles may have blue blood in their veins but they are still individuals. They come in all shapes and sizes. They are ambitious, kind, compassionate, ruthless, conniving, fiendish, absent-minded, pious, hedonistic and practically any kind you can imagine.

Powers of the House of Nobles

Veto – If the House of Nobles manages to present a unified front, they may veto any decision the Council makes.

None – The House of Nobles have no official power except what they can amass IC through numbers, alliances, blackmailing etc.

Positions of Prominence – The Nobles of Stormwind are frequently chosen for prestigious positions that aren’t necessarily political such as judges, royal knights, advisors, overseers of projects, appointments to committees etc.

Wealth – The Nobles are rich and the King needs their support.

Nobility Privileges

A noble share the same privileges as the Ministers. (see paragraph 3.4 of The Stormwind Council FAQ https://defiasrp.forumotion.net/stormwind-council-open-f70/the-stormwind-council-faq-t1891.htm)
They have the right to bear arms in the Council chamber, the Cathedral and other places where people wouldn’t normally be allowed to (precluding in the presence of the King of course).
In war they can be ransomed and usually not executed out of hand.
They enjoy diplomatic status when visiting other nations and Kingdoms.
As they are expected to supply armsmen in times of war, they are exempt from the war tax.

Noble House Application in LFRP
If you wish to create a Noble House in Stormwind, or a foreign one, you write up some info about it (see below), post it on the LFRP forum and tell that you are looking for people to RP this or that role or any role.

Genealogy – Write a genealogy of the nobles of the House and maybe a bit about each one. A line or two should suffice. Make note of prominent members and/or ancestors.

House History and Heraldry – The founding of the House is important. How did it come to be? What is it known for? What is its heraldry? What does the heraldry represent?

A few questions I think should be answered:

How is succesion decided?

Is the Kingdom of Stormwind a feudal society or an absolute monarchy or a parliamentary monarchy?

How to handle foreign nobility in Stormwind
Noblisse Obligé. The nobility of Stormwind are expected to treat foreign dignitaries with respect and hospitality to a certain extent. These foreigners may in turn end up as pawns in the games of the Stormwind nobility.

i really do like the brain storming you have done. makes me wonder rolling out my noble now

Aisling wrote:The House of Nobles

Powers of the House of Nobles

Veto – If the House of Nobles manages to present a unified front, they may veto any decision the Council makes.

While I think many of your brainstorm points are awesome, I gotta comment on this: Why in all the world would you want to mix up the council with the nobles? It would only make the council's work more complicated, it would complicate the "who can be noble" process and it may harm initiatives from the council...

About nobles having the same rights as a minister, I'd really avoid that again, same mixing argument. The Council can be really picky with the people they let in, while nobody can fairly monitor who gets to roleplay a noble or not.

otherwise great thoughts *lurks off again*

Well... nobles usually have land. so the council of nobles should reflect that. and then i mean counties like lakeshire, eastvale, northshire... moonbrook, or even bigger entire provinces... this would give political gaming to nobles. imo.

at the cost of complicating everything and being impossible to minister in any way (random noble #3242 claiming land in Darkshire [TDS], Lakeshire [Hand of Nightmares] or Northshire [Chapter of Holy Anethion] etc. will not end well)

Why do you have to have something OOCly to RP a noble? You could just claim you have an estate somewhere in westfall/southshore/whatever where it won't offend/affect people at all - since you really wanna RP in Stormwind anyway and thus claiming to own an actual game location won't matter for your RP!

And does political gaming HAVE to involve the council???
I simply can't follow that logic. As far as I have understood, the council are a couple of folks elected by the King to help him out with his stuff, whereas the political play between nobles would be against other noble houses (due to a feud, wishing for more land or such), not overthrowing/controlling the King (and the people who happend to be working for him).
If you just want to go to the cathedral district, council meeting or whereever and shout "I own half of westfall, obey me!" I don't really think it is the noble RP you're after :p

P.S. If you truly wish to RP a noble in his own lands and not in SW (which I don't think is the point of this thread) you do ofcourse need an IC location. But in that case pick something far off that nobody can argue about, like a house in Southshore, far off in neutral zones or such.

@ Mordazan. On your first point, yes, you're right there. Try to avoid complicating things further. On your second one I'd have to disagree. I was talking about privileges, not rights, such as being treated courtesly by citizens and the guards, preferential treatment, etc.

@ Amaryl. I agree with Mordazan about it complicating things. Lands, wealth, estates etc. are just flavour and don't have to be shown "on-screen". With that I mean that people should not go around and say specifically what they own. If absolutely necessary, say something vague that you have an estate there and there. Another issue with claiming lands is that there will be more nobles than land areas to own (most likely) since the WoW world is relatively small (due to gamistic necessity). You can walk from one end of Elwynn to the other in ten-fifteen minutes. It wouldn't make sense.

After reading Mordazan's comments I think the House of Nobles would need some sort of "currency" to use in their games. Ie. the resource that nobles will be fighting over and trying to out-maneuver one another for. If we are to avoid mixing them with the Council, it needs to be something other than political power. If it is land, then having that land must have some consequence for that noble's RP.

Maybe the resource could be information, retainers, House members, alliances or secrets.

Could use servants as a resource too perhaps. As bad as it sounds to us, it kinda make some sense in a world like WoW. Not to mention it gives more RP opportunities, since someone can play a servant!

Alright Aisling, I see your point. A noble would need to stand out from the mob somehow. Though a puny, poor noble without influence wouldn't be much more than an average citizen (besides the "Sir" saying) - once you build up influence/power/respect you get some priviledges.
I would just write a discourse on the treatment of Nobles instead of using the council one 1:1 since their RP, purpose and way of working would differ heavily from a noble.

Problematic points would be stuff like:
"the Councilors still speak and act in the name of the King and his will" do the nobles really do that? (taken from council FAQ)

I'd just say write something for the nobles instead of using council stuff, not to mix up things

Aisling wrote:
Maybe the resource could be information, retainers, House members, alliances or secrets.

Now you've hit a vein. A noble's ressources/influence would depend on how much of the stuff you mentioned he can manage (exactly like all other fractions). The main problem in RPing a noble would be to gather people under your wing to gather information/secrets with, to act as house members and retainers and to give you enough influence to be a prospect for political alliances. Hunting for all the mentioned things would make for a great noble house/guild concept!
As such, there isn't much difference from a guild to a noble house in the way it works. The main difference is in the roleplay. So get out there and do it

Julia wrote:Could use servants as a resource too perhaps. As bad as it sounds to us, it kinda make some sense in a world like WoW. Not to mention it gives more RP opportunities, since someone can play a servant!

I see an increased demand for Barov's Peasant Caller, but if people want to RP servants then it should prove to be quite a change from all the "lord this" and "lady that". Haven't seen one single human that hasn't such a title tbh so far (except those without the RP-flag addon).

Cid wrote:Haven't seen one single human that hasn't such a title tbh so far (except those without the RP-flag addon).

Haha spot on!

Rather than too many nobles, my concern actually is whether or not there would be enough interest to actually get a House of Nobles off the ground. Naturally not every participant would need to have a full household, and having a rather motley collection of some large houses and influential nobles, and some rather small and insignificant individuals with little more than their lordly names.

I'd like to see it happen, and very much admire your outline there, Aislin, it's pleasantly concise. I'd be happy to participate with my Aislinghall family (albeit rather casually since I have quite some projects right now), and enjoy the brainstorming and idea-making processes.

I think this sounds like a fantastic idea. It sounds really interesting really, especially that influence should be measured in the size of the household (specifically, the number of played characters in the household). I'm looking forward to see how it develops.

I should note that I think that nobles from all nations should be allowed to participate. Not just Stormwind but also Lordaeron, Alterac, Stromgarde, Kul Tiras, Gilneas and even dwarven thanes. Naturally, if you join you have to accept a few duties to the crown of Stormwind and at least partially base yourself in the kingdom. As long as you have a household and/or you roleplay a noble in a convincing manner you're welcome.

Kicking something like this off, perhaps someone could be pointed out as moderator, to make a proper post with guide-lines and family trees? Someone who is capable of keeping it up to date, and someone who would possibly be interested in stirring it up in game a little too.

Making the post I suggest putting it in Looking for RP. Not only is there only one sticky (so it will be easy to find, the Noble thread), but after all it is also a thread where people can put their nobles up/where noble families can look for more members (LFRP).

@ Mordazan. The thing I am after with the privileges is that even the lowest noble stand above a commoner. Nobles should be respected, simply for being noble.

Aisling wrote:@ Mordazan. The thing I am after with the privileges is that even the lowest noble stand above a commoner. Nobles should be respected, simply for being noble.

I agree. While naturally from an OOC perspective an RPer needs to build themselves up within the community rather than waltzing in and saying 'I'm a noble, I can tell you what to do!' - on the other side of the coin there's that for RP to work realistically, a character who is a nobleman or woman (as long as they are reasonably RPed, of course) should be given a measure of deference by commoners. It simply makes sense.

Aisling wrote:@ Mordazan. The thing I am after with the privileges is that even the lowest noble stand above a commoner. Nobles should be respected, simply for being noble.

Considering 99% of people you meet in Stormwind claim to be nobles, I think people would act with more suprise and interest at finding a bloody commoner..

Chléirich/Gunnell/Graham wrote:

Aisling wrote:@ Mordazan. The thing I am after with the privileges is that even the lowest noble stand above a commoner. Nobles should be respected, simply for being noble.

Considering 99% of people you meet in Stormwind claim to be nobles, I think people would act with more suprise and interest at finding a bloody commoner..

x)

Chléirich/Gunnell/Graham wrote:

Aisling wrote:@ Mordazan. The thing I am after with the privileges is that even the lowest noble stand above a commoner. Nobles should be respected, simply for being noble.

Considering 99% of people you meet in Stormwind claim to be nobles, I think people would act with more suprise and interest at finding a bloody commoner..

People keep saying that, but I haven't observed it myself. There seems actually to be a rather small pool of nobles in comparison with the array of common folk, be the latter thugs or Cathedral-goers. But such comments aren't especially helpful, when what's needed for this project to work is, if not an increase, at least a coordination of people interested in noble RP. Mind you, these don't all have to be nobles themselves - noble houses need armourers, servants, doctors, knights-in-service, and all sorts of retainers.

Julia wrote:Kicking something like this off, perhaps someone could be pointed out as moderator, to make a proper post with guide-lines and family trees? Someone who is capable of keeping it up to date, and someone who would possibly be interested in stirring it up in game a little too.

Making the post I suggest putting it in Looking for RP. Not only is there only one sticky (so it will be easy to find, the Noble thread), but after all it is also a thread where people can put their nobles up/where noble families can look for more members (LFRP).

Since most people seemed to approve of the ideas I posted above I'll get around to making this post with guidelines and a short FAQ (or something to that effect) about nobility RP on Alliance.

Anaei has previously done a wonderful job by creating family trees and I would like to ask her if she'd be interested in handling those for the noble families.