s0 i lik herd...(Warhammer spam/discussion) - Now with Codex: Grey Knight updates!

Isn't mankind "stripped of thought and self" too in WH40K? From everything said above re. the Emperor... there is no "me" there is only the Emperor of Mankind and the whole of Man.

I'm not allowed thought, or it's monitored and policed to nothing (because otherwise I might bring the Warp down upon us, or Chaos, or something inbetween). I'm not allowed self, because being "selfish" doesn't help us keep the Emperor shining bright. Being an individual is no choice. "Living" is no choice. Just existing for "Mankind". But that doesn't make us human, far from it.

And, jeebus it's true, I'm discussing the philosophy of Warhammer 40K...

>.>

"Their minds and senses became dulled" I don't really see how this is any different from living under the Imperium of man? Except that you're fully aware you're a slave and feel every second of the physical and emotional torment you go through so a few depraved sycophantic nut jobs back on Terra can prance around, stroke their beards and congratulate each other on how awesome they all are.

And to prove their minds have become dulled you only need to look at one of Angelos' speeches.

"There is no time to be lost! Battle Brothers! Today the enemy is at our door. We now our duty and we will do it! We fight for our honour as blood Ravens, as Space Marines, and we fight in the name of the Emperor! If we die this day we die in glory, we die heroes deaths. But we shall not die!"

Truly inspired...



P.S. So the C'tun's ultimate ambition is to eliminiate the warp? Shouldn't we be signing up behind them then? I'm not above serving a good cause then turning on my corrupt leadership once the battle's been won.

grufftoof wrote:
And, jeebus it's true, I'm discussing the philosophy of Warhammer 40K...

Games, serious bussiness. It's also amusing to pick and prod at fictional ideas.

Geneviève wrote:"Their minds and senses became dulled" I don't really see how this is any different from living under the Imperium of man? Except that you're fully aware you're a slave and feel every second of the physical and emotional torment you go through so a few depraved sycophantic nut jobs back on Terra can prance around, stroke their beards and congratulate each other on how awesome they all are.

And to prove their minds have become dulled you only need to look at one of Angelos' speeches.

"There is no time to be lost! Battle Brothers! Today the enemy is at our door. We now our duty and we will do it! We fight for our honour as blood Ravens, as Space Marines, and we fight in the name of the Emperor! If we die this day we die in glory, we die heroes deaths. But we shall not die!"

Truly inspired...



P.S. So the C'tun's ultimate ambition is to eliminiate the warp? Shouldn't we be signing up behind them then? I'm not above serving a good cause then turning on my corrupt leadership once the battle's been won.

That's Boreale.

And C'thun doesn't exist in 40k.

Nice try though.

;D

Ataris wrote:
That's Boreale.

Aren't they all created by that gene seed of the emperor?

Could also have been a freudian slip on someones part :3

He's a space marine though, right? D:

I haven't played for years, leave me alone! *sulks*

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:

Ataris wrote:
That's Boreale.

Aren't they all created by that gene seed of the emperor?

Could also have been a freudian slip on someones part :3

I think it goes Emperor>Primarchs>Space Marines actually.

Individual thought does exist in the Imperium, and plenty so. Would be no need for the Inquisition at all otherwise. Even Space Marines know doubt.

40k lore is pretty silly anyway. It's all gothic so every single faction is displayed as being the most awesomest there is. Reading the Codices is like reading propaganda.

Technically, the C'than are out to destroy every living being in the universe. If you read on the C'than, you will notice that they feed on entire star systems to sustain themselves. You will also notice that the destruction of the warp is just a goal, while the destruction of the universe (If given enough time and no one to stop them) is just collateral damage.

And people can say whatever they want for the Imperium of Man and the Emperor, it will not prevent billions of men and women to continue to wage war against the enemies of Mankind, it will not prevent the Inquisition to safeguard the Gates of Hell. It will not prevent the Space Marines to praise their undying Lord by giving battle and death in his name, and it will not stop us believing that he is the salvation of Mankind.

The only thing that it will make you do, is become a heretic.

The Emperor Protects.

PS: Space Marines were created by the Gene-Seed of their respectful Primarch, which in turn were created from the Emperor's gene-seed. The only Chapter that is speculated to be directly created by the Emperor's Gene-Seed are the Grey Knights who's Gene-Seed source is unknown/secret, bearing the number of 666.

Considering they are the most pure, and the most strong when it comes to dealing with the warp/daemons etc. and the fact that over the thousands of years of service they've not had a single case of corruption amongst their ranks, so one can speculate that the Emperor indeed is the founding member of the Chapter.

It's a philosophicaly loaded question if you look at the warhammer 40k universe, is that particular way of existing as a universe better than not existing?

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:It's a philosophicaly loaded question if you look at the warhammer 40k universe, is that particular way of existing as a universe better than not existing?

It's what I see interesting in the lore and game as whole. It's a dark, nasty Universe and more. Grimdark, hurp. But it's not just about mankind, Mankind, or whatever.

Everything is murky and shades of grey (Or black. Or maybe even bright purple and gold if you're a follower of Chaos...). There's "truths" on all sides.

I don't think that living in the world of the Imperium of Man is something that ever grabbed me in the game. Partially (as said before) because the models of other races and things grabbed me more. I did have a Imperal "Penal Mining Colony" small battleforce I made, and some Space Wolves (truly great earlier models on those). But when I got some Eldar and later Tau I really got interested in their lore, their reasons.

Not to the extent of reading the drivel that sprang up in book form around the Universe. But just from articles, rulebooks and stuff. Then again, like Gené, I haven't touched the game in "some time".

But the philosophy is still interesting. And a bone of contention it seems

It's spelled C'TAN god damn it.

And contrary to popular belief, to my understanding the High lords of Terra are the most reasonable, mature and competent leaders in the Imperium. Even by real world standards.

And yes, it seems we agree on a few points Genevieve. The only fault I think you do is judge the Imperium by real world morals, then go that xenos, Daemons etc are better.

The Imperium is very laid back in it's rule of it's worlds. It lets them self govern, since communication is so unreliable. Local Planetary Governors dictate more about how a world is run rather than the Imperium itself. There are worlds which are free democracies, worlds that are totalitarian hellholes. As I said. There are a million worlds in the Imperium. Variation in how planets are governed is immense.
While I'm being the devils advocate, I'm not going to deny that the 41st millenia is a shithole I'd rather not live in, and that the Imperium of Man is the most bloody regime imaginable, and that the Ecclisiarchys primary cult is a bunch of screaming fanatics. But if I'd have to choose, I'd choose the Imperium over the multitude of other horrors in the grim darkness of the far future.

I could go on more, since I DM Dark Heresy I keep well up with interpretations and etc. But since I'm about to go and DM some Dark Heresy in a few minutes, I don't have time to elaborate further. Instead! I'll post some copypasta and pictures to portray how different parts of the power scale of the Imperium is. But the most important thing to remember about 40k is, that it's the Dark Ages in SPACE! With fantasy elements. Which is why I find it so balls to the wall crazy awesome.

Since we were discussing the Tau

Inquisitor: "Tau, you cling to your Greater Good only because you have not one iota of understanding concerning history or the nature of the Universe itself. You are but insects touting accomplishments that were dwarfed by your betters in ages past.

Once the Eldar laid claim to the entire galaxy and created an empire of incredible and inhuman beauty, but they fell prey to decadence and consumed themselves in a tide of blood. The great twin empires of Terra and Mars also reached their highest grandeur at the same time. Both contained technological wonders the Tau can never dream of achieving, but they were laid low by their own pride. Your rapacious technological development will not save you. You will either fall into decay and ruination like the Eldar, be drug down by the mechanical claws your own creations like our forefathers, or be utterly consumed by your machines and become as the Necrons who we fight even now.

In the distant past we too attempted to work for a perceived greater good, but we are much wiser now. In the fullness of time you will fall as all those who have gone before you. But you will not endure, for you have neither the conniving of the Eldar nor the perseverance of Man.

Soon enough you will come to realize what your betters have known for millennia. There is no Greater Good, because there is nothing good in this galaxy."

And here is how average people view SPEHSS MEHREENS. Another important thing to keep in mind about 40k. The average person is ill educated, superstitious and barely literate, and raised to respect authority. Like back in medieval europe.





PS: Oh, also. My Dark heresy games are primarily in the spirit of 3rd edition 40k, with the elements of 4th and 5th edition I like. But the thing I always remind my players about, is that 40k is a horrible god damn universe. But people are still people.

Damnation Crusade from BOOM Studios!!!11 <3

Ahem, its a brilliant comic and "The Visitors" part really paints a good image of what an ordinary man in the Imperium thinks. God, now I have to go read the comic again, and follow it by reading the "TITAN" series again.

The Emperor protects.

Quite a nice comic yes.

Another interesting insight into how your average person views the space marines was in a piece of fluff (Fall of Malvolion) about a planet under Tyranid assault, written from the point of view of an IG soldier.
The defending IG were fighting a losing battle until the marines came, after which the morale started to climb. The marines were immortal, afterall. 40 minutes later the marines were all dead and the IG had a "Game over man, game over!"- moment.

I wish I could find the story somewhere...It used to be hosted on GW's site, but it's gone now.

Note to self:
Never assume writing up 6 noble families for a large city is easy. especially when you've forgot that noblemen usually have 1-3 wives, several children per wife, that everyone gets different status depending on who was there first and nobles in the Imperium live for several hundred years because of medical SCIENCE!

All of this because the favorite past time of the nobility is murdering the fuck out of eachother, and plotting so hard that the Camarilla looks like a bunch of noobs.
And I haven't started on the dozen other factions in the same city yet.

All of this, I do for my DH players. I'm going to end up insane.

Is it true that the emperor didn't want to be seen as a god and scolded the space marines that did so (who then went chaos)?

Something to pass a few hours with

Pretty boss warboss, that.

Spoiler:

It had to be said...

Greenskins never grabbed me, but I like the idea of the paint job. As for Lini's comment, you got something to show?

Greenskins arnt for evey one. ( exprince has shown so far evey one in that hobby will dabble with them on there painting desk) it part of a small campaign army, that i may drag up to thorne of skulls.
but a bet with a friend has save me no longer have to paint white death company but get to do a small imperial fist force.
As for Lini's comment there is some truth in it. should have thin'ed the white down a bit more

I got me my first chaos dreadnaught!

picks comin soon

Well, technically my point wasn't meant as criticism.

"THIN YOUR PAINTS" is far and away the most commonly offered painting-related criticism seen on /tg/, mostly seen in reference to some new Warhammer 40,000 player's fuzzy photographs of his first attempts to paint a model. The second most common appears to be "YOU PUT THE FUCKING PAULDRONS ON THE WRONG WAY ROUND", since new players are inevitably playing Space Marines. Trolling or not, "thin your paints!" is almost always good advice to give a new painter. However, the phrase has reached the point where it gets posted whenever something painted is shown on /tg/.

While this isn't /tg/ that was the first line that popped into my mind.

The trick is thin paint, multiple built up layers and drybrushing ^^

But looks good that!