[A] Turn Stormwind inside-out! (3-day event)

The hour of damnation draws near! Do not miss it. =D

For Sophyra, Blaight, Mordazan and the other organizers: I'll be extremely busy this week, so discuss everything concerning the Cartel with my officers and keep them updated, please.

Right people! Log-in servers are troubled. Don't be discouraged, if they are not repaired by 20:00ish the event will just be delayed first by 30 minutes to 20:30, then to 21:00. But let us pray. Don't give up hope!

I'll adopt my usual pessimistic stance on the subject.No sense in hoping for the best after all

Hmmm...odd usually such a comment would of compelled the situation to fix itself by now

DISCLAIMER: Speaking with people in the rest of OTS now, the feel is that I'm alone in wanting to voice this issue in this drastic way. Therefore I'd be lying if I claimed to be speaking for anyone more than myself right now, so please take that in mind, and don't make any irrelevant remarks about this, they'll be ignored.

Alright, some constructive criticism after the raid on the Blade. I've seen this thread earlier in the week and I was open to this event reading it in this thread, sounded like a perfect source for random, spontaneous RP, with suspicious guards placed at the entrances of the city, and what not. Now, some background: I've been a supporter of the Shields for a long time, and often, personally, taken their side in some of the debacles that've appeared.

What transpired was: Shields came into the Blade (pretty sure the door was still locked, but that's always an issue so nevermind that), fully armoured and yelling, not waiting a second too long to start emote fighting the people in the Blade, there and then. Everyone went along with it, due to various obvious reasons no one made any actual resistance, just snide remarks. It ended up with one of the people in the Blade feeling the (most likely OOC) need to confess to being part of this plot just to get the Shields out of there. Several people were beaten up in a short amount of time, and soon the Shields left with the confesser.

Above is what happened. I've tried to keep it as objective as possible, and if someone who was there thinks that I remember wrong, please say so, just so everyone can be clear about what actually transpired. Now for the criticism.

I was both speechless and quite literally horrified at how this was acted out. NOT A SINGLE OOC REQUEST FOR OOC CONSENT WAS MADE BEFORE THIS TRANSPIRED. I've never felt so powerless while RPing before, nor so forced to be part of a plot that I frankly might not have been the slightest interested in being part of. I'd seen the thread already so at least I was somewhat prepared for something like this happening, but I think there were people in the Blade who had not even seen the thread, therefore potentially completely unknowing of the city-wide plot.

Aftermath? We had our own plot going on in the Blade that we had to completely throw into the can for now. One of the people I was RPing with had to leave because of this, and of course, emote fighting was forced onto several people in the Blade tonight. I'm fuming, but I'm trying to keep this as objective and non-partial to enlighten what actually happened in these 5-10 minutes. I personally believed asking for the OOC consent of others was common sense for much smaller things than what happened tonight, but apparently there are guilds that don't have any respect for such a concept whatsoever.

This event had great potential, but it was quite literally the biggest trainwreck of an event that I've ever seen. "Thanks" for "letting" me be part of it.

So a spontanious raid on the Blade, asking criminals for information. Well, yeah, it happens, but it happened to every bar. Perhaps we shoulda contacted you OOCly, but eh, you run a criminal bar, you cannot expect to go by without cop-raids, especially when a blood-trail leads into your bar. We got given clues, that the criminals were hanging at the Blade, we follow our clues IC..

Anyway, sorry if you got upset ofver a spontanious raid.

And the fact your bar got raided, and you didn't get to be a winner, a special hero, but an actual criminal under the stress of a cop-raid, y'know, a criminal? The character you rolled? The character you play? Don't make the event bad. Alot of criminals are in on it and there is chaos all over the city, and we're in the middle, solving everything and finding out clues about stolen items and a plot. And that your bar got raided like all the other places, whom had no problems, is just the risk of the job.

Mansfield \ Ath wrote:asking criminals for information

I lol'd. No, I'd been more than fine with it if it was just asking. Inflicting physical harm on someone's character to me requires a request for OOC consent, there's no way around that, for me, and for most, I dare say. And it would make sense that a blood trail lead to the bar, yes, but I'll call you with that the door was most likely locked ad barred so we can call that one even.

I'm sorry we are unaware of invisible doors and them being barred without whisper. Also.. it's called tough interrogation. No permanent damage, no lethal wound, just smacking ONE person with their head on the bar and asking them some tough questions, then leaving. Your character was unharmed. I hope you weren't affronted too much.

Anyway, I apologize for any inconvinience caused and in the future I will contact OTS before hand or avoid them. I thought you lot played criminals.

Alright, lets not let this thread go into such unconstructive discussion, take it to PMs maybe? I personally can't see the OOC problem, though the extreeme use of violence and harsh tone I'd arch a brow to ICly :p

Either way we had an awesome event with the Sphere, with special thanks to Sophyra (for organising it all) and to the Shields and the Chapter for keeping the streets guarded! It was great, and tomorrow'll be great too!

Mansfield \ Ath wrote:Also.. it's called tough interrogation. No permanent damage, no lethal wound, just smacking ONE person with their head on the bar and asking them some tough questions, then leaving.

Chase wrote:Inflicting physical harm on someone's character to me requires a request for OOC consent, there's no way around that, for me, and for most, I dare say.

Not to mention that smacking someone into a bar shelf/counter could also kill them. And there was at least one more person being injured as well.

I do roleplay a criminal. I don't see what that has to do with the ignorance of a friendly and very much needed norm, though?

Chase wrote:[Not to mention that smacking someone into a bar shelf/counter could also kill them. And there was at least one more person being injured as well.

I do roleplay a criminal. I don't see what that has to do with the ignorance of a friendly and very much needed norm, though?

I see you, the guy who was unharmed and untouched, complaining? Where is the person who was violenced against? If she had no problem with it, you should not make a problem out of thin air and complain in her name. You might have not liked SEEING the roleplay, but you weren't actually involved, but left alone. So no voilence was used against you. If Noxie complaints to me about having to contact her first or complains that I used voilence against her, I will take it into more consideration. I have no idea personally where you are coming from - at all. We cannot and won't ask everyone OOC content for using voilence against them and we never have. They don't complain, we didn't use anything against you, so why do -you- complain? Don't complain in your guild members' names, when they might not have found it a problem at all. Also, when your members attack us, they don't ask for OOC permission, I.E. Valkner throwing bombs at us and shooting us, I thought as criminal / guard guilds we could have spontaneous RP in between ourselves as long as it don't affect the whole storyline or something for too long? We were in the blade for 10 minutes, interrogated one person, then left. Big deal.

Regardless, we will work on improvisation and there was ALOT of chaos and mess I had to deal with personally so I might have acted a little too hasty. Tomorrow there will be less chaos and more scripted event. I've also now offered OTS a role to play in the event, through IC and OOC means.

Anyway, apology if you somehow felt uncomfortable of your criminal watching as a guild member gets interrogated and your bar getting raided by Shields without your pre-knowledge and us leaving quite fast, to leave you to your own devices.

I appreciate the apology and the promise to improve. Just to make one thing clear before I leave this to rest:

Mansfield \ Ath wrote:Don't complain in your guild members' names

Read the disclaimer. I'm not complaining in anyone's name but my own. There's a big chance that none in the OTS agree with me on this, as you point out. You can therefore not use an example of what someone else in the OTS has or hasn't done. I'm not speaking on behalf of ANYONE ELSE but my OWN. No one else may share MY OPINION, I don't know.

Lastly, I complain because of the principles. I hold on to principles more firmly than most men would hold on to a Lithuanian hooker's rack. That's just who I am. However, I myself do realize that I've made my point, probably having repeated it a few too many times as well, for that I apologize. But Mordazan, I'm wildly impressed that you'd consider this discussion "unconstructive". Is there a human being on this little planet that you'd consider worthy to take part in the utopia that is a discussion which is constructive?

I think if someones gonna roleplay a criminal or a crooky looking fellow, they need to accept they'll be wounded alot by guards and do gooders. Or RP something else. Pros and cons people, pros and cons.

Lukeian/Natelda wrote:I think if someones gonna roleplay a criminal or a crooky looking fellow, they need to accept they'll be wounded alot by guards and do gooders. Or RP something else. Pros and cons people, pros and cons.

If you plan to impact another person's character like that, you still have to request the ooc consent. I'll gladly have my character get hurt, anyone who knows me can confirm that I walk out of 90 % of fights, without completely arranged outcome, as the loser. I've let them take beating after beating, never expecting to have my character being the one who does the beating, in return. However, there's no way you can force me to RP with someone I don't want to RP with. I RP for my enjoyment's sake and that only.

Is it really that hard to tell them oocly?

Really it solves many problems with a short whisper like; "Sorry but I dont want my character to become invloved in this right now."

If someone made something bad you can both agree it didnt happen, if just people tried to solve things, generaly nearly everyone resort to raging on guild chat and such.

Chase, please take it to PM - we are currently discussing your personal principles and what you consider norms in RP etc. I understand your points but I don't feel they're doing anything to the event.
If you feel violated that the Shields did not talk to your friend before doing something, you should simply contact the shields (through PM, for instance).

And don't talk down to people using wild rethorics, it tends to sound offensive, even to a cold-hearted sod like me

No-one was forcing RP on you. It was a bust-in of the Blade, that lasted for like 10 minutes. Are you saying you wanna RP a criminal in a respected crime-guild and ignore the city guards? How can the city guards force RP on your character?

Uhh, yeah, this is about the event. Send me a PM if you feel it needs further discussing.

Look, I have no comment on this discussion in general, except that I think you're all missing the part where Chase has a valid complaint.

It would be polite and decent to let a guild know that you're about to raid their bar/area/etc. It -is- forcing RP on people to do that, since the only alternative they have otherwise is to pretend you don't exist, and that's silly. But Chase mentioned they were engaged in a plotline of their own, which was interrupted.

And really, Blaight, I've heard you championing many a time how no one should be forced into RP. The Blade lot are generally quite easygoing and accepting of raids and injuries. We had an interesting time during the riots a couple of weeks ago for example. Surely a simple whisper before you rush in and start beating people up isn't too much to ask?

Mordazan wrote:Chase, please take it to PM - we are currently discussing your personal principles and what you consider norms in RP etc. I understand your points but I don't feel they're doing anything to the event.
If you feel violated that the Shields did not talk to your friend before doing something, you should simply contact the shields (through PM, for instance).

And don't talk down to people using wild rethorics, it tends to sound offensive, even to a cold-hearted sod like me

Simply speaking, we're (at least I'm trying to) discussing the difference of "assume everyone is all for this event" and "ask first who is and who is not for this event". If you don't think that has anything to do with this event, frankly I don't know what else to say. And what sounded offensive in my previous post was actually an insult, so I'm glad that came across.

Ath, I've repeated myself too many times already, just sift through my other replies again if you want an answer to your last post. Please don't call me out to not expect my characters not to get knocked down by guards, cause I'm all for that. However, should I make anything criminal with my character, I'll do that on what I consider FAIR terms, also after an agreement with the other part, making sure they also think it's fair. I'll not then comply with having my IC actions get IC reactions that I deem UNFAIR. Mutual respect, the very essence of it, there to make it a fun time for everyone.

I'm out of the thread, been repeating myself too much and I don't look to continue. Those involved in the rest of the event, have a blast, and I'll see you around.

Edit: Won't be PMing anyone, I said what I wanted to say about the event. I consider all of this being on topic and about the event, so I won't be deleting posts either. Once again, see you guys around.

Aniane wrote:And really, Blaight, I've heard you championing many a time how no one should be forced into RP. The Blade lot are generally quite easygoing and accepting of raids and injuries. We had an interesting time during the riots a couple of weeks ago for example. Surely a simple whisper before you rush in and start beating people up isn't too much to ask?

Once again I already apologized and promised that in the future I will send whispers to your place.

I just don't see how one small raid, lasting 10 minutes, in regard to a criminal event as people point us towards the Blade with information we gained needs to become SUCH an issue. We interrogated one person and left instantly. I don't ask OTS to whisper me each time to commit crimes or attack our members again. Or each time they come around the command center, drunk or otherwise attacking us or speeching there, forcing us to arrest them and spend time RPing with them and giving them prison RP. It is in the world of guard and crime RP, criminals will need to be subtle and sometimes there will be consquences - for both sides.

We RP with you, with your crimes, we take the effort to give you prison-RP, advance in some sort of plot with you, have an force present and take our time to take your reports, treat you like criminals, give you a law to dodge. Do you really wanna go and play criminals without consquences or random danger because everything needs pre-arranging OOCly.

And to regards of forcing the RP on you - that I was championing against - it is the OOC aspect of such. I have no problems of people RPing ICly and RPing spontaniously without telling us everything pre-arranged. I prefer it that way. It is just when people take it OOCly and go like "Oh you need our approval to do this and that, you cannot do this, you cannot do that.". I'm sorry, you play criminals in a criminal bar. We interrogated criminals. People said to go to the Blade and interrogate the people there, because the person we are looking for was found there. We go there, we ask around, we find things there, we leave. It's RP. Do we really need to begin talking about it all OOCly?

Anyway, you request we contact you OOCly and we will do so in the future, I apologize if you were offended by spontaneous guard/criminal RP. But we expect you to, form now off on, whisper us in return should you want to do criminal stuff like.. attack our members, come at the CC drunk, want us to solve your crimes, want us to take your testimonies plots, want us to provide you with prison-RP, etc. etc.

I was referring to a big raid, something which might prove disruptive to the RPing of several people at once -- not to random RP between Shields and OTS members. Naturally it wouldn't make sense to have to discuss throwing a punch or ordering a drink! Please do read more carefully.

Aniane wrote:I was referring to a big raid, something which might prove disruptive to the RPing of several people at once -- not to random RP between Shields and OTS members. Naturally it wouldn't make sense to have to discuss throwing a punch or ordering a drink! Please do read more carefully.

I'm sorry but this lasted a little less then 10 min, and was random RP between Shield and OTS members, in my eyes atleast. Chase is grossly blowing the happening out of proportions. But you weren't there. Anyway, we spend ages RPing with you lot when you do WAY more disruptive things without OOC confirmation, such as your members frigging throwing a grenade into the CC, almost killing 3 Shields. (This happened something like 3-5 days ago.) Do we go to you and make public forum posts in your recruitment thread stating my thoughts about it and everything you lot do? "Oh OTS is at it again, sigh, they are attacking again, shooting with their flintlockes, dodging and not getting hurt, throwing grenades." "Oh dear, we have to arrest another, now we'll get to deal with every OTS members whine again. /sigh. Incoming 10 OTS members at the command center.". Nah. We think it's RP. It's spontaneous RP, we roll with it and we tolerate it and we continue doing so IC. You will never see a Shield member start a thread or start a whining post about the many things of the opposite side, that can be classified as annoying, disruptive to RP or otherwise lame. Things like this happen and this was super small. OTS is not flawless themselves and neither are we. Do you have to blow it outta proportion and insult our whole hard-worked event? No.

Should I gather screenshots one week about the things criminals do in RP without OOC confirmation or ANYTHING at all that can be seen as invasive and annoying, surely you will see where I am coming from and the stuff we have to deal with, like this. A small raid in return for 10 min asking a few questions? I hope that didn't destroy your day or invade your RP >_> wat

The first night of the event saw some delays due to the log-in issues; evil servers have paralized the Forlorn Cartel by making sure none of their core-members, who were briefed on the event, could attend. But we've pulled this through non-the-less and managed to start it up!

Forlorn Cartel has staged a series of diversions in Stormwind City, drawing the attention of the guards to themselves and tying them down. Meanwhile, Ravenholdt Sanctuary have infiltrated the Stormwind Keep, helped inside by a corrupt noble and managed to get away with the wedding ring that once belong to Varian's beloved queen. Sentimental value of this ring is immense to His Majesty. With no delay, Blazing Shields regiment is put on alert and in record-breaking times all exits from the city are sealed. Not willing to be trapped as easily, the thugs start fires and cause chaos in the streets in their desperate attempt to produce a weakness in the blockade and escape the trap the city has become. By the end of the day soldiers of his majesty stood triumphant; despite the pressure and the Chaos not a mouse was let slip away. Although the Blazing Shields and SI:7 had little luck producing any information to where-abouts of the Ring so far, it is clear that with the chaos supressed next day will be more fruitful.

By the bad stroke of luck, or divine ordinance, cultists of the Dark Sphere have stolen an ancient magical grimoire from the Vault, infiltrating it through their devilish guile and unearthly powers. Darkmaster of the Sphere and his best channelers have attempt to summon the strike-team out of the Vault with a spell deemed powerful enough to succeed; what they did not know was that book it self resented portal magic. Three men who were part of the team ended up scattered all around Stormwind by the portal gone bad; while their souls remained trapped in the Twisting Nether, their bodies walked on as mindless zombies, urged on by most basic instincts of survival. It was a tremendous effort to track down those cultists, one of whom had the badly desired book, and capture them. This task was made nearly impossible when Inquisition of Holy Anethion was sent by the Cathedral to bring back the dark libram. By making good use of Chaos in the city and Guards' preoccupation with the thieves, the cultists have managed to bring back their scattered numbers and unite once again, this time with the Book in their hands.

For tommorow

Friday will see a lot less chaos, as guards have now established peace and control in the city. Thursday was time for chaos and confusion of epic proportion, friday will be time for slow-paced yet terrifying detective-roleplay. While the criminals and cultists hide in dark corners, Stormwind Guard will break into derelict buildings, search known hide-out, arrest and question anybody suspicious in order to procure at least a smallest lead. With the news of the rich booty stolen by the Sanctuary spreading in Stormwind's underground, a gang-war of sorts is not long due. And what will the Dark Sphere do now that they have their precious grimmoire, but no ways of leaving the city with it? How far will the Chapter go this time in attempting to achieve their goals?

Detective&Guard-rpers should contact Blaight of the Blazing Shields.

Thugs willing to guard the ring from the long fingers of the law should contact Tírius and Whitker of the Ravenholdt Sanctuary

Thugs willing to make the most out of situation, RP in Stormwind under siege should contact Zinkle or Nifty of Forlorn Cartel

Cultist-hunters should contact Veltrick or Thonian of the Chapter of Holy Anethion

Cultists out of power, willing to unlock the secrets of this ancient and forbidden grimmoire, should contact Andrek or Sophyra of the Dark Sphere

Cultists willing to make most out of the situation at hand, and simply RP in a paranoid and unfriendly city should contact Zaraj of the Hand of Nightmares.

For over-all organization, contact Sophyra

Thanks!

Thanks to all who've participated in the first day! Guards have managed to create an awesome atmosphere of fear in the city at least for us cultists....and I won't forget how my heart nearly stopped when I was carryin The Book, with GHI buff saying that I have it, and running straight into a Chapterian patrol

P.S: Chase, sorry, but its very hard to keep a huge event, involving 6 guilds and spanning entire city, well organized to keep every person not directly involved happy. When the city is virtually afire, its hard to realize that some people are not willing to participate in the RP. I will contact the Guards and the Chapter and ask them to leave the Blade alone on Friday, as well as change our cultist-plans and avoid it too.

Sophyra wrote:. I will contact the Guards and the Chapter and ask them to leave the Blade alone on Friday, as well as change our cultist-plans and avoid it too.

Please don't, at the very least, please don't on my behalf. For the last time, I was NOT voicing my concerns on behalf of the Blade. It was MY VERY OWN opinion.

Edit: I didn't mean to be rude towards you, Sophyra. I'm just tired of repeating myself (and tired of repeating that fact too). Just don't relate my concern with the Blade's wishes. I can't speak for -them- regarding this event.

Sophyra wrote: I will contact the Guards and the Chapter and ask them to leave the Blade alone on Friday, as well as change our cultist-plans and avoid it too.

That's not necessary at all, I'm fairly sure I speak for the rest of the OTS lot when I say we'd be happy to be involved and enjoy the spice of random RP. We'd just love some warning if you do want to involve the Blade; if there's some way you'd like us to be more directly part of the event (late though it is) and want to plan somethin', please feel free to toss me a PM.