[A] Chapter of Holy Anethion on Trial!

Raelan/Relithien wrote:Osmand, honestly, you cannot say you got punished enough for what the Chapter did.

I am not complaining at all? I don't understand what you just said ?

Osmand wrote:

Raelan/Relithien wrote:Osmand, honestly, you cannot say you got punished enough for what the Chapter did.

I am not complaining at all? I don't understand what you just said ?

I think, she/he/it/nelf means, that You can not say there was OOC IC justice. "I beg to differ."

I think that there should have been violence. Or else, some day, civilians will tear chapterians apart, just because they weren't punished enough. You should have given them whips to -save- their lives. ;P

Or at least, that's what I felt somehow. Unfair, to let them go like that. And if my character wasn't a foreigner, he'd do his best to screw the chapterians up at sight.

Baltram/Numerius wrote:I think that there should have been violence. Or else, some day, civilians will tear chapterians apart, just because they weren't punished enough. You should have given them whips to -save- their lives. ;P

Or at least, that's what I felt somehow. Unfair, to let them go like that. And if my character wasn't a foreigner, he'd do his best to screw the chapterians up at sight.

Its not like we said you cannot harm us, it was independant judges decisions and what honestly is the point in whipping an order that openly takes part in self-flagellation?

I'm sorry if i get my nose wet, But why shall chapters get punish when the people that did the crimes you say has left or stop play.. is it real fair.. and if you shall drag whole chapter to trail why is not all old ones in same trail even those that left? why shall the new members take punishment for something that lays in the past? Can't we all start on a new page and let go of the hatred and work together to make Roleplaying something fun. that would be a great thing. a new start with our wise and kind Osmand as our face out. Can't we all get along?

Right... I include Azume to the list, and send the chapter to Siberia forever!

But well, if you believe that the chapter can stop being vile zealots, sure... It'd be fun.

Azume, sadly getting along is not Human nature. And you finally registered on ze damn forum! *clap clap*

Anyway...

I was quite dissapointed with the outcome of that trial... The punishment was just pathetic to be honest. The gold one won't change them the slightest IC, they'll just shrug it off. Preaching at certain times and areas only, I can't see that as effecting them the slightest neither, as they do not preach that much anyway. The weapons punishment, you just know you'll get a bunch of them running around with concealed daggers inside there boots, guns hidden in their belts, etc...

All in all, that trial was very, very dissapointing.

I don't understand why a lot of people are "disapointed" by the trial. That means you came because you wanted to see the chapter fall under severe punishment?

I can understand why a judge don't want to execute/exile an entire order because of the actions of individual members.
And as the verdict is suposed to be based on evidence, perhaps there was not enough/good enough evidence? Since the most severe elements in the accusation didn't make it to the verdict (treason, mass murder etc.)


And I urge you to remember how boring it would be if everyone were alike. I know the Chapter is different and may do thing otherwise than other orders, but to the Sphere they're really as great (if not a greatest) enemy because of their holy light dedication.
I know that there is conflict in differences, but conflict = RP. So the things that may be bad to your character may be good for you (take me; ICly I want the church of the holy light, along with the chapter, to be destroyed - OOCly I love 'em all for giving me RP)

I'm just talking in general. If nothing else, just read it and consider it for a few moments. If I offend anyone, I appologize.

Baltram/Numerius wrote:Right... I include Azume to the list, and send the chapter to Siberia forever!

But well, if you believe that the chapter can stop being vile zealots, sure... It'd be fun.

Lets all be good lovely characters with no layers That will make RP fun!

Personally I think people just need to salvage the good parts of this. Go their seperate ways and when the heat of the moment dies down. Try and work something out. Currently everyone is all so hot headed that it's obvious this isn't going to go anywhere right now. So give it a week or two THEN talk while trying to revert this crises all over again.

Read... most things here. Sounds like it was a real nice event for msot part. Cudos to those who put down work in it.

This question goes to those desiding on the verdict.
What would have been wrong with Banishment from the City of Stormwind?
Or the Nation. As if you check in the lore the nation of stormwind covers Elwynn Forest at most.
Banishing them wouldn't be "Death" it would be a true new beginning (from how I see it) Aswell as maybe helping to make a new place for alliance to find RP with the chapter making their home in Westfall, Red Ridge, South Shore.
Might really have done a lot for roleplay that we'll never find out about.

Just some idel speculations and thoughts.

It's about respect. Respect not to give the crimminal such a punishment where he will *never* ever be able to RP his char again and respect to the law-enforcers and the government RP'ers not to go Orc on them in public and don't shrug it off as if nothing happened.

It's like those old GI-Joe cartoons, the villain loses but allways gets away and returns the next time with a new sceme.

Marogg/Helanie wrote:Read... most things here. Sounds like it was a real nice event for msot part. Cudos to those who put down work in it.

This question goes to those desiding on the verdict.
What would have been wrong with Banishment from the City of Stormwind?
Or the Nation. As if you check in the lore the nation of stormwind covers Elwynn Forest at most.
Banishing them wouldn't be "Death" it would be a true new beginning (from how I see it) Aswell as maybe helping to make a new place for alliance to find RP with the chapter making their home in Westfall, Red Ridge, South Shore.
Might really have done a lot for roleplay that we'll never find out about.

Just some idel speculations and thoughts.

Well now what is done is done anyway. I just hope OOC problems will be solved. This is the most important things on a RP server is to be sure that grief and fight stay IC only, and that always OOC work and investissement, and persons are respected.

Screenies? Anyone?

Still if Chapter shall have their punishment harsher.. then all OLD chapters shall take part of it.. Not us few that is left becuse of this.. then shall evryone get their punish and smile.. Don't care if you leave or try to pretend not to be a chapterian before.. if you was one then you shall all take punish for the actions in the past.. not hide and point finger.. Or shall we all start on a new page and let go off things that has nothing to do with roleplaying to the side. Stay on fact. Among us.. some off us has not even been there and done the crimes we stand in trail for.. and you complain for what? just becuse you desterted chapter does it mean you shall not take the same punishment.. no lets be reasonble and wise and have a fun time..

Tashun/Galavan/Merativ wrote:Screenies? Anyone?

Though i wasn't there ICly i took some screenies ooc

I like it, anymore? Preferably with chat

Jayse wrote:

Yes I was -that- seriously pissed off. You wanted a fair a just trial, I gave you one and I get shit on OOC by your minions playing defence.

I think i'm well within my right's with my own decision. I could have spent that week polishing RP plots I put on hold for this thing.

I am sorry, but when the 'shit hit the fan' I was already for an entire month away from leading the Chapter and only showed up occasionally for IC 'closing events'. I've started organizing this trial 3 days before the vacation; not trying to make it a tiny closed thing, but a proper event - an event I spent a long time preparing while knowing I would never actually see it myself.

I've sent you the exact copy of the instructions I gave the judges, so you know that I did all that I could to keep this trial organized, calm, unbiased and just. So, for the record: the chapterians are not my 'minions', and I think you are going too far taking this out on me.

Please ladies and gents.. i speak with whole my heart.. Why be mad over things that can't be changed now.
Let us be adult and try to have fun and loving roleplay.. some harsh words was said but nothing we can change now. i hope in my heart we can set this past to the past and hope for a bether future.. We all has learned by our misstakes and wrong doings. Why shall we even kill a great guild that has many hours of work down becuse you think it was unfair..
I'll realy hope we can start fresh..

Really not sure where this guild killing thing keeps coming from.

Well, About the chapter thing that members should not be punished for what past members did. Some members did continue to threaten Rhebeca to be killed or punished for what she did.

Also i would have assumed any intelligent judge would have read the Recitations of the chapter and could easy spot the maze of problems inside it that can be abused to control members. As well, I believe not even once was asked to look into the witchbane of the Chapter by a judge while this was stated a dozen of times by Rhebeca as a vile book in the trial.

On top of that Rhebeca only told half of what was done to her by the chapter in the trial. Maybe the Judges should have gotten the witness testimonies on paper to save time during the trial.

Atleast that is what I think what went wrong to help the defence.
Beside that i do agree the punishment was rather lame. As the entire point Rhebeca was once tortured by Mordov was not even mentioned

I think you have to remember the laws Rhebeca

Following a problematic dogma (which I ICly think all light-dogs do!) isn't actually a crime. And if it was, it'd be very problematic for the church and all its sub-fractions since all religions are based on believing, not logics or reason :p

Torture (as I read the laws) isn't really illegal either. I guess that is why it was not put up on the trial.

And remember that the judge have to consider evidence. This is very difficult to do in WoW as murder weapons etc. isn't really present.
This means that even Mordazan could stand up and say "hey, the chapter guys killed my brother and tortured me for a month!", though it'd be a lie, obviously. It is very hard to proove that I'm lying though, because I'll just say that they were very secret about it :p

As i said, That why anything bad happens now I will screen shot it, Only way to get evidence

But yes, I agree on some of those point:.
But when it goes bad and the one light dog tries to hurt the other. Usually this means one is left hunted down and slain in the end to be consumed by the other.
And torture is illegal when you are just a random organization doing it to other people. Which he chapter is.

I think your first deduction is very sad. It basically says that there can be conflict in the alliance, because the strongest party will just beat down the others and consume them
I don't think so myself, I believe in diversity.

Could you point out where exactly in the laws torture is described? I might've missed it.

Ledgic/Omanos wrote:

Assault
A crime of violence against another person.
{{{ - Punishment: -- Imprisoned for 6 to 36 hours. Use severe care and have enough back-up before arresting and escorting the felon to jail.
Depending on the length of the fight, and wounds sustained.

---Victim severely wounded, and requires firm (immediate) medical attention - full punishment.
---Victim badly wounded, requiring medical attention - 24 up to 36 hours imprisonment.
---Victim wounded, bleeding, several bruises and wounds, 12 to 24 hours imprisonment.
---Victim lightly wounded. 6 to 12 hours imprisonment.

It might not say torture, but it's still the same thing so. But if people are so extremely picky, I'm sure Omanos can add torture to the law list.