To Catch A Thief

Executive Summary / TL;DNR

I'm wondering if it is possible to RP a thief or indeed form a Thieves' Guild on our server?

The Concept

I'm thinking of RPing an intelligent, cunning and willy thief.  If possible I would be interested in expanding that out to forming a guild of like-minded thieves who could start to RP a constant, but low-key wave of crime across our capital cities - and potentially out into the countryside.  If you're familiar with the Mockers from Feist's fiction then something like that, but as a start my thief would avoid the brutal tactics of Protection Rackets and so on and would focus on more elaborate and less violent heists.

Activities

My idea would start off with my thief/guild performing some simple robberies of various businesses across the city.  I'm thinking I could target taverns, shops and maybe even guild headquarters.  I might involve myself in some petty pick pocketing but that would probably be focussed on stealing things like keys to the aforementioned establishments.  I may work my way up to some complex cons (though they would take a lot of planning and thinking about).

RP Opportunities

The above is all very well but it's pointless unless it generates some RP potential.  So, what do I see there?   Some simple areas I could see this generating RP:

- Casing targets.
If I'm going to rob a business, then I'm going to want to case out the joint.  Let's say I decided to rob Ray's Blades.  I'd need to go there and have a look around.  Obviously I'd do that during open hours and talk to the owner and so forth.  I'd be looking to check out the shop and see what sort of defences they had.  This would give me and the shop keeper the chance to talk IC, and do some "normal" business whilst I checked the place out.
- Actual robberies.
I'm thinking of actually RPing out the robberies.  This would mean hitting the places late at night.  We (the target and I) could decide if we agree that anyone would be there or not, or we could leave it to pure chance and see how the RP panned out.
- Fencing goods.
I'd need to fence whatever was stolen.  I've no idea if there are any shady organizations which might work in this role, but hopefully there would be someone out there who might want to do this (even with an alt).  I might be able to ship some stuff on to reputable organizations without them (IC) knowing they are taking on stolen goods.
- Ransoming Items.
Let's say your guild or character was in the middle of a storyline and had some important items relevant to that story in their business or HQ and these were stolen.  There would be great potential to try and set up a return of these goods to you, in exchange for cash.  We'd need to work out how and where the goods and cash could be exchanged.
- Breadcrumbs.
Obviously to make things interesting I'd be looking to leave some breadcrumbs behind giving clues which might, over time, add up to clues as to my identity or whereabouts.  We could see how this panned out.
- Guard Guilds.
My thief/guild would make an obvious target for Guard Guilds to chase down, and would of course give these guilds something to do.

The Problem

So this is all very well but I see one major problem with this.  I can't do all this RP with the NPCs scattered around the cities.  It needs to involve player toons.  And by definition this means I need people who are happy to be victims.  It will be a very short lived concept if every target I attempt to rob is a super hero with arcane wards on their business and if every guard in the city is Sherlock Holmes.

I don't want to RP an uncatchable super-villain.  I want it to be much more low-key than that.  Just a simple burglar to start with really.  But for that to work properly I need simple businesses and people who are happy to have their guild headquarters violated in the interests of promoting more RP.

So, I'm relatively new to this server.  I've no doubt this sort of idea must have been done before - as it's such an iconic concept.  Can you experienced campaigners point out the problems I'm not seeing?  I'd love to benefit from any Lessons Learned from the previous times this has been tried and not fall into the same traps.

Existing Organizations?

Are there any existing organizations/guilds out there who already do this?  Maybe this could form some competition?  Maybe we could be allies?  Maybe there is already a Thieves' Guild out there I'm unaware of and all this is already happening?  Is there anyone who might want to be used as a fence?

Interest?

So, as I say, for this to work I need to see some interest.  Are there business owners (taverns, shops, professions) and guilds out there who think it would be interesting and valuable to allow themselves to be robbed?  Is there anyone out there who wants to get involved in investigating these robberies?  

And is there anyone out there interested in joining me?


Thanks.

P.S.  I'm not planning on starting this guild with Fenodyree.  In fact he's far more likely to be a victim than the burglar himself.

I have a character who could use a thief, and could potentially set up some targets for him, with payment being whatever he finds plus a lump sum on top, as long as he gets what his employer asks for of course

There is a fair bit of commotion in the cities at the moment, and most men-at-arms are abroad fighting the Legion, so this is a great time to be a thief IC! Good luck with it.

Hi Sage,

Yes, your excellent Murders storyline and of course the Legion backdrop, did both give me an idea that this would be a prime time to start such a crime syndicate up - where many of the usual crime-fighting guilds and organizations would be busy/elsewhere.

Thanks for the positive response.  That's a good start.

Cheers!

I like this idea.

It's one of the concepts that have never been done before. Most criminal guilds in the past have taken inspiration from Mafia, doing both scams, protection money, heists and thug-activities.

"Thieve's Guild" (subtle criminals) was one of the things never done before.

I have plans with Azure Flame involving trade. I would not mind to fence your goods and sell them forward to the Horde in actual roleplaying.

I can not afford an additional character, or dedicate time to a yet another guild, but I can do what I can in terms of someone to echo thoughs to and share ideas. I'll be somewhat involved anyways, with my Fence.

Also. One thing to consider is whether you want your guild to be able to operate "Guildless". Sub-concious meta-gaming do happen when one sees a criminal/cult guild tag, and they will hold their coin purses more tight, or be more aware for suspicious activity.

My suggestion would be that if you go ahead with this guild, create the Guild Tag (for recruitment purposes and those who 'want' a guild tag) but disable Guild Chat and use a Custom channel instead. That + either forums or Discord group for your guild, and potentially a custom-made calendar invite list for events is all you need to operate a guild at full capacity without 'belonging' to a guild. Gives you more freedom to, when members can infiltrate other guilds as their "honest job" or to have an associate in another guild in touch that way.

Hi Skar,

A big plus to get a nod of approval from you - so thanks for that.  I'm also encouraged and enthused that you think this concept is fairly original - and also very surprised.  So that's a plus point.

In terms of the Guild Tag, I actually had the same thought.  I am thinking that setting this Organization up as cross-guild might have many benefits.  Imagine an upstanding member of the House of Yore who happens (unknown to the House, both IC and in-game) to be a member of the Thieves' Guild.  They are on the in-game chat channel and get involved in the activities of the Thieves' Guild, whilst still being in their usual guild.   You have instant intrigue and options for RP pop up there.  

You also 100% avoid the OOC tag of " < Thieves Guild > " sitting under their character name which would make 99% of people very suspicious when they walk into your shop!

It enables people to join with mains who are well established in existing guilds and have no wish to leave an established guild and bunch of mates to join a fresh guild.  Why not do both?  This way you can.

I've done this with Fen - he is a member of the BTU in character but not in the in-game guild.  It works fine - great in fact - and they have a chat channel which lets me feel part of their guild without the Guild Tag - which lets me have " < Mastersmith > " under my name - which I like.  

So, yes - I think this is a very good approach.

The one thing you need to remember is specify how to "contact" the guild. Since there is no Guild Tag, or the Guild Tag is held by very few, those who /who < guild > get few results, so specifying what method is best to be in touch with you is a good idea.

I could provide a victim or two perhaps, depending on the situation. If you decide to settle down in Ironforge, then I suggest doing so in the Forlorn Cavern (RP-wise we made it connect to the Underforge, a criminal capital basically which we used for a while in the community). One of the few places the guards won't enter by themselves without plenty of troops to back them up with.

Cid wrote:I could provide a victim or two perhaps, depending on the situation. If you decide to settle down in Ironforge, then I suggest doing so in the Forlorn Cavern (RP-wise we made it connect to the Underforge, a criminal capital basically which we used for a while in the community). One of the few places the guards won't enter by themselves without plenty of troops to back them up with.

Thanks!

My initial thought was to start in Stormwind - one of the main reasons is that it has loads of alleyways and rooftops so provides an interesting (and perhaps traditional) environment in which to run skulking robberies. Who's not a fan of a roof top chase after all? But if the initial interest is more from IF then IF is where we can start.

I'm certainly hoping that if it goes well I/we can spread out into multiple locations. Equally if it doesn't go well in one city (i.e. we get caught!) there is potential to branch out/relocate into other cities.

One concern I have about the Forlorn Cavern as an RP base is that the moment you see a bunch of shady types RPing in there you're going to know something dodgy is going on. I'm actually imagining the Thieves' Guild meetings happening in far more remote and secluded places. But this is all very much just in the kernel stages so far.

Understandable indeed, I can see the reasoning against the cavern as such. Not all need to be criminal to enter that place though, or known by the authorities. It is a known place for rogue and warlock trainers after all, thus not everyone is automatically a criminal.

Still, if you wish to use the Underforge to branch out, by all means be our guest. We also have a decent ingame location for the Underforge as well (though when we had that market back then, gankers liked to try disrupt the gathering there, might be something to consider). Skarain knows the location I reckon, otherwise I can show the place if interest be.

Sadly, with the introduction of WoD, about half of the market area was lost due to barricades, invisible walls and instance portals. One can still use it, but it does not feel like the maze it used to be.

(We were using the area where you now enter UBRS and LBRS from. One could bypass the instance portal by jumping over a gap using speed-boost to access uninstanced copy of Blackrock Spire staging area, including the first room of both and second of Lower before Hordemar City.)

I made a start on this last night.

Was in the pub and bumped into a couple of the Ninth. Managed to get them to give me a tour of their HQ. Towards the end they grew suspicious, but thought I was connected with the murders somehow. So that storyline was a good cover. Anyway, I contacted one of their officers and made an offer to rob them if they wish me to. They will discuss. Obviously I'm not going to rob that place anytime soon, or they'll immediately put 2 and 2 together. So nothing will happen here for a while.

One thing clear was that it was a lot more organic RP when the other RPers had no OOC knowledge about my intent. I guess that will disappear as this idea grows and when/if my toon gets known OOC as a thief.

One thing I've done is decided that the thief is a master of disguise - seems a suitable skill for one of his profession - and I've created a small set of "persona" for him, using Equipment Sets and TRP3 profiles. With that set I think I can cover casing targets, fencing stolen goods and performing the actual robberies pretty well.

I'll keep advertising in /lfrp for potential victims and see how it all goes. I'll also post my progress here to try and generate interest and momentum.

So, please let me know if you wish to be a victim, an accomplice, or a nemesis to this thief and we'll sort something.

Making use of disguises is good. A lot of WoW's roleplaying is character interaction, and as a law-breaker as a thief, you'll want to be able to continue interacting despite someone finding out that you are doing something fishy.

I personally recommend the frequent use of barbershop. Fake hair, dying your hair, fake beard. Heck, even changing skin color and claim it's makeup. A big hat or mask is shady as sin in open interaction, hence why detailed disguises are such a great thing.

Trp3 prfile-swapping is great aid in that to.

I'll be around to RP as a fence, a criminal world associate that will buy your stuff as soon as i get a computer that i can use to access wow.

I also think that Bizmo's Brawlpub will be a great underword "sanctuary". Since Legion, the place is not in use by game mechanics. You can not queue into the brawls, thus no loud noises or hostile NPC's will trigger. You can still only access the VIP area if you have reached rank 8 before, but even then, there will be plenty of space to RP with.

Since Underforge can not be accessed in the form it used to be, my few cents would be to use Bizmo's as the underworld "hub" where lawful characters have no business to. Even in the scenario of a batallion of guards, one could always escape the place by the numberous passages, maintenance shafts and side-entrances. I for sure will be parking my fence down there.

Is there a simple way to link Equipment Sets with TRP3 profiles?

Not as far as i know. I've simply used the built-in equipment manager that standard UI offers from under the character tab. I've also got an item set titled "naked", which unequips anything currently being worn. Then it's simple enough to build your own sets. While there is this limit of 10 sets, that's more than plenty in most cases.

Okay. Much the same as me. Thanks

Oh and the barber idea is another I considered. I'll add it into my approach.

And the brawl pub sounds a perfect HQ for a guild and/or criminal activity. I'll also use it.

So, I've now cased out the Blue Recluse and the Pig and Whistle in character (as a patron, easy to do of course). I've sent their owners PMs on here today to see if they would be interested in being robbed. I've also spammed the /lfrp channel with requests for interest, which drew a bit of banter last night but no actual interest as such. So, I'm still at the generating momentum stage with this so far.

Skarain, let me know when you get online and we can set up a meeting with your Fence.

Earliest on wednesday, probably few days later. Knowing my recent luck with computers, probably later.

That is another thing that you probably need to think about. What to do when there is no-one to be robbed? Getting a few colleagues ought to help in that, when you can still RP a thief with like minded people and converse the arts. Just to remember to guise your real identity even in here. You never know if there is someone with the intent to double-cross you when opportunity presents itself.

Skarain wrote:Earliest on wednesday, probably few days later. Knowing my recent luck with computers, probably later.

Wednesdays are my main evening online so that's the best time to catch me - though I'm on and off other evenings on occasions.

That is another thing that you probably need to think about. What to do when there is no-one to be robbed? Getting a few colleagues ought to help in that, when you can still RP a thief with like minded people and converse the arts. Just to remember to guise your real identity even in here. You never know if there is someone with the intent to double-cross you when opportunity presents itself.

That's easy.  My thief toon has a "real job" as a merchant ship captain - which works as a good cover story, gives me some legitimacy (I'm currently helping the war effort by shipping men and supplies to the Broken Isles and bringing home the injured), and also gives me the ability to RP non-thief stuff as needed or wanted.   I've also got Fen as my main of course - and will probably spend most of my time online with him still, depending on how this idea pans out.

But yes, good point, I will need to have a "persona" set up and ready for meeting other thieves if I ever get that far.

Some progress on this:

Last night I performed an I.C. reconnaissance of the outsides of both the Blue Recluse and Pig and Whistle taverns.  [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] of a shadowy figure have been made to the guards but nothing concrete was seen or discovered.

I've opened up OOC dialog with Kelinn and Rhena about the potential of hitting their two establishments.

I'm waiting for Skarin to get back online to sort out setting up a Fence.

I've come up with an alias and calling card for my thief which I'm very happy with.  I'll let that play out over time as this idea germinates.

Still interested in any potential collaborators on this venture; still looking for potential victims - especially shop keepers and business owners. Post here, PM me here or mail/whisper me in game to set up a discussion.

Its all coming together, looking forward to this, and may use an alt with you at some point, just a little busy at the minute. Good luck with this, great idea!

So, Kelinn and I have agreed a date and time when the hit on the Recluse will happen. No, I'm not posting details here as I don't think I want spectators or guards turning up, thanks.

I'll post later on when the hit has happened and update with how it went.

The first heist has occurred.  The Blue Recluse was hit last night.  A big thanks to Kelinn for helping organize the hit and volunteering to be a victim.  Thanks also to Likia and Cerenx who volunteered to be working at the time of the robbery.

The actual event was a little off the cuff and was always only supposed to be low-key, but went well.  The best part was the RP of the victims - which was excellent.

It just so happens that there was a random drunk dwarf (whose name I've forgotten, sorry) who helped the whole heist by unwittingly causing a huge distraction in the common room.  

Look out for posts on the Rumours board for some IC views of what happened...

Update:  Posted a new thread for [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

I can inform you that the drunk Dwarf was called 'Blacktongue'.

Last night the Jack of Diamonds, in yet another cunning disguise, sold off the stolen loot to an underworld fence.  The fence is planning to sell the loot onwards in character.

The Jack still has Kelinn's special ring in his possession, and plans to ransom it back to her soon.

It will soon be time to hit another premises.  Any volunteers?