Council opinions thread

[Azapha]

Guys im posting this up as my other topic started to drift into a council debate so I decided it's best that if you have something to say on it, best make a new one that is about it

Rules of the topic
The intent of this is to stay constructive, if you have something to say, keep it in a manner that is respective of others, if you just say "I think xyz is bullshit" it is not helpful or constructive at all, explain your stand as it were

This is not a rant at council thread, it's an opinion thread, suggestions and ideas are free to be put up.. So guys, say yo thing but don't be a dick, to put it simply a

[Azapha]

I guess I will start it off, honest opinion,  feel the council in current state is stable..  But stale,  it's the only RP event where people complain at excessive interactions of RP and people come to watch just a few, input I would say I feel is needed is council it self to reach out to grip community more by involving it self more, I can say very confidently I have not seen an event spurred on from the council for over a year. As an event designed and intended to bring RP,  I agree that outsiders can use it as a way to advertise. But I do feel the council it self as the center of the show SHOULD be more able to create RP

Just my 10 cent,  if I was up there and felt I could not produce or or help create community RP, I would step down and let another try

I have seen more rp ideas shut down than promoted in council which is contradiction to its intent

[Reynard]

I've only actually been able to attend 2 council sessions but I'll give my two coppers on what I've seen:

My first council session I stepped up and introduced myself and that helped to launch my career as a smith - and I think the council, as the single most highly attended RP event on the server - is a fantastic place to do this.  If you want to advertise an event, a service, a new Guild (e.g. RP Tavern opening up), a new shop, etc, then this is the perfect place for it - simply as I say due to the huge population there to advertise in front of.  This has to be a Good Thing as it promotes RP.

Other than that I found all the rest of the hour a bit confusing an uninteresting as it was all just city politics which (as a newbie) I did not understand and really did not interest me.  I'm not political by nature so it never will I think.  

Suggestions
I'm not sure of the mechanics of how the council is run but I think there is a second meeting behind closed doors where more politics of the council is discussed.  For me you guys should move ALL the council politics to a second meeting which is for ministers and wannabe ministers and politics and law making etc to be done.  

Make the existing weekly council meeting a place where everyone who is not on the council but who is an RPer can come along and promote RP events and the like, to the council and the community.  This would make it a far more interesting and idea-generating event for the casuals and the serious RPers in my opinion.

Oh, and make this open council event on a Wednesday so I can attend please?  

And with that I'm off back to my forge...

[Azapha]

Fen they do have a closed council after the meeting, I do however agree with the point of a large portion of people don't find it engaging, the amount of people who stand tabbed out is unreal sometimes.. Which was where my point of feeling the council is STABLE but STALE comes from

[siegmund]

One problem is that there is not really that many people that step up to the plate and have anything to advertise or meaningful to say. Of course if someone will ask a question of political nature that's gonna end up being discussed for an hour becouse why not discuss the wording of a law?

True that the council itself doesn't usually do much in events but even outside of things players need to maybe try and show off some more so politics get less time.... Or you know not ask about those silly things.

[Azapha]

I do believe the closed council is where that is supposed to be held, but however (I can't say from personal as I only have what o have been told) some people have said things publicly because they felt the closed council was somewhat in a habit of brushing over things and they bring it to open council to Forse the discussion to happ

[Cid]

Basically copying some of the stuff I've PM'ed to Azapha the last few days, quite a bit of a read here. Ye be warned!

"There has been some occasions where I have proposed ideas for events, either playermade or the yearly events like Brewfest etc, and I get much praise for thinking them out... only to get blatantly ignored, no communication or cooperation whatsoever until it be too late (in terms of yearly events, for instance). The Fire Festival thing some month ago or two is just an example. I had written a speech, I was to be invited on a specific day... but nothing. No time, no location, nothing. Those whom I spoke with from the Council about it claimed that it was the "House of Nobles" responsibility. The funny thing is, at least half of those I spoke with from the Council ARE IC'ly part of the House of Nobles, thus turning their argument moot! I was plenty mad after that time, and showed it at the following Council-meeting."

This got handled and the members of the Council then apologized for it, but I just wish to remind people that there has come many ideas to the Councils attention, yet not much have been done with them after that. Also, to claim that it be someone elses responsibility to organize stuff when you also claim to be part of said organization that supposedly handle the events? I cannot help but think it be either incredibly lazy or massively ignorant to think in such a manner.
This next part regards the class (either by station or playable class) crap I've been hearing about on the Council's part (from more than one source, I just choose to quote Azapha since it be her thread):

"Yeah, the NPC king leads the House of Nobles, as it should be. I actually ponder if the House of Nobles shouldn't be NPCs in general, since it seem to isolate the players part of it from the regular players. We do not need isolation, we need to mingle with people, bring them into the light that is roleplay. It would also make more sense to not have players in HoN since it is as you said, a ruling body.
The Senate for instance is made up of equals, no senator bow for another senator, the chancellor is a secretary taking notes and keeping order and reports to the King/Council of Three Hammers. It doesn't matter if you are a noble or a commoner, warlock or paladin, as long as you got qualities for the job and you do your job for the betterment of society you can become a senator."

"although i think there is going to be an irony here that the council told you that when in truth, the house of nobles is meant to be politics, the council is meant to be the voice of the people, and it seems like its the other way around.. all the SW RP makes no scents lore wise anymore and the council make it harder by fighting against them who want to try and do things"

"This be the issue however, someone roleplaying a leader of people do not like having their decisions judged by someone lorewise above their station, thus they corrupt the lore for their own gain. Not surprisingly we get godemoters and powerabusers from such behaviour. People who ignore the advice and voices of others are bad roleplayers, and the general roleplayer dislike such displays and ignore the bad roleplayer... or leave the realm if many enough are doing it.
Which isn't entirely surprising when it comes to the case of Defias Brotherhood.
I long thought it was due to griefers and gankers that caused them to turn away, but that was not the thing. I wager many turned to griefing and ganking of roleplayers after being so utterly disappointed with the RP community here, or deciding to leave for Argent Dawn and its plethora of roleplay, thus further deteriorating the quality of this servers RP. We need change, and it need to come from the roleplayers. Only we can change our situation, not Blizzard or anyone else."

I find it worrysome that the Council is supposedly the voice of the people, but isn't doing much to promote that view. Quite the opposite in fact. It be a scary thing when something that was good once, turn around to such extent. Especially if it is said to help promote roleplay, yet fight those who come with new ideas on how to do things. That shows more than one would think, that the 'voice of the people' is not in fact the voice of the people, but the ones sitting in the Council. The following part elaborate further on that:

"i do think the council CAN improve, and make it self better for everyone, but i think it needs a bit of a boot up the ass to have to respond because people are speaking about it .. mael sees it as im trying to brake his council, i see it as im trying to help people who are to stupid to see it needs help"

"It certainly can improve! I remade the Senate after its earlier failings, and I've discussed altering it further with the current senate-members in the past, and it will most likely go through further modifications to make certain it'll survive in the future as well. It cannot be allowed to stagnate and die out because people refuse to change. Dwarven Rifle Squad evolved into The Three Hammers, which after the split later on evolved into Clans of Khaz Modan. Change is the only constant."

"As for Maelmoor thinking you are 'breaking his council'... it just shows that there's an issue already at that point, as he think it be HIS council, not the players. I sound like a hypocrit since I certainly said the Senate is my baby, but I also know that children grow up and change as they get older. Eventually you have to know when to let go of them.
I am not worried about ownership issue because the Senate has always (under my time leading it at least) been about the players, and the players are making it work for them, as it should be. I have left the Senate in the past, I will likely leave it in the future as well at some point, when I know it will make do without my participation. It has worked well thus far, and as you said, some of them take notes and make efforts to which I'd say is beyond the line of duty."

I picked out the important parts of our conversation regarding the Council, not everything that we talked about ofcourse, but much of it. I cannot help but agree with Azapha on most things since many of the thoughts she have are my own as well.

If there is a major flaw with gatherings like these, it be 'ownership' issues. Who actually 'owns' roleplay? Not an easy question to answer for some. I would however say that roleplay belong to everyone willing to acknowledge it. But if someone claim "something" to be "theirs", that's when things are starting to go wrong.

I mentioned myself earlier as an example, calling the Senate "my baby". I nursed it from its slumber, but I also reason as to why I do not have any ownership issues. Like a child growing up, it be an entity of its own. It be growing, adapting to the surroundings, gets wiser with experience and willing to discover new routes, accepting new ideas to solutions. Do not let your child get raised into an isolated thing, ignorant of its surroundings, because on that path lies stagnation and unfulfillment. Raise it with acceptance of new people, ideas and impressions, then behold the wonders it can do.

I guess I got carried away with the metaphors there. However, I am Cid Blackforge, and this be my opinion.

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