Just some RP thoughts worth mentioning (good/bad toon interactions mostly)

Hay guys i was not really planning on posting this but after all the whispers i got during the council and after it, i think enough people raised the point to get me thinking about this, which is something im going to call RP walling for lack of a better term,

for them out there who RP dark magic users or something that is disliked in general, we start of thinking how fun some of the interactions could be when faced with them with opposing view (you sir paladin, looking at you) where we can expect to not get along and have a hard time proving were not just some crazed loons, however, a lot of people who have done this and wanted to have interactions like this become somewhat disillusioned by this thing im calling RP walling. now its not the same as being denied RP directly, rather, you just hit a wall of no new responses or repeated responses that eventually become so dragged on that it makes interacting with said player no longer fun, i have such an example, where a character Azapha has interacted with about 10 times perhaps over three years has only managed to get ether ignored or "your a warlock" or "NO because your a warlock" there may of been a line or two before, but same ending

now ICly i totally understand the point, but just step back for a moment and think to your self "is this the kind of RP i would be okay with", its funny because these people WANT to interact with you, they are talking to you after all and making the effort to RP.. no ones saying to act like your friends with said person, but take thought about the fact that they probably WANT to rp with you and are willing to put up with the IC dislike, but probably are going to be a bit put out if the story as i mentioned above is all they can get out of you. and walling up with the same repeated actions is going to only persuade such people from RPing with you in future because no one like to just have the same line blurted at them over and over , im sure they would find more interest in the interaction going beyond such,

It must be rather bad for you to start complaining about it Out of Character, considering these problems are usually because of IC interaction with the other player having gone horribly wrong somewhere along the line. Such as different ideologies or thoughts. We have to remember that everyone is different and reacts differently to situations and some people are just not meant to go along together.

Its impossible to come/go along with everyone, no matter how hard you try is what I'm saying.

However! There is a good side to this, people improve as much as they worsen. So if you just keeping talking with them enough and keep showing them that you are not such a bad person you will eventually rub off against the person. This is a lot of fun when you think about it because it creates conflict within the character himself and he (Or she) begins to ask himself who he or she is.

And I agree with you pip, this however something I brought up due to the number of people who made a point to speak about it last night, so I just placed some thoughts up on here to share, and the point was not about winning,  it was about situations where simply non other response is available to you regardless of how it's put

Let's use the conversation of I disagree with the moon being real, something way out there irl,  could start a conversation but if the only response I have is " but the moons not real" and I didn't even engage to stand against anyone on the thought by saying anything but that. This is where it kinda hits what I describe as a wall, because I am refusing to really input or take full involvement

My point was more how off putting it is to rp with said person, because it becomes a chore not a fun interaction, some of my favourite rp situations have been azapha losing or being spoken down ect, because the rp is still keeping my gripped into what's happening, I have something happening to engage my toon and let's be honest, conflicting characters can have amazing rp because of how they don't get on, but it's not the same when you are simply put, never listened to, why would you want to rp to being ignored forever

Alrighty so. Some of us were not at the Council, so going to drop a few questions for clarification.

Azapha applied to Stormwind Council, Minister of Magic.

Azapha was "banhammered", given a "wall" to block entry, due to being a Warlock.

Azapha was not granted an opportunity to provide an argument why she would be fit to the job, due to being a Warlock.

About right?

Skarain.. due to OOCly being ignored when i was IC interacting by some said people i was a little pissed off about that .. but that is a different topic entirely. the council it self is a whole different kettle of fish

however, less to do with that and more to do with the following kind of debates.. it dos not just work against me and dark magic users, it works in a lot of ways and i dont wish to name people but i kinda have to by using this as the topic to explain what im on about

Example of convos that cover what im on about

guy1 "the light is not magic"
guy2 "well i think it kinda is.. i mean if the void is magic then"
guy1 "the Light is NOT magic"
guy2 "okay lets look at the facts he..."
guy1 "but.. the light is not magic"

this is the kinda convo im talking about.. iv encountered it in various forms ... because when you encounter this kinda thing where the reality is , you are just fighting with a statement that gos no where.. the issue with it is.. its not engaging when it becomes a norm, it becomes a i would rather drop it because im bord of it, not because you won ,, im just tired of the crap non debate im having sort of thing

the "im a warlock " thing did come up in the council, but in truth my only real grievance was peoples refusal to try and RP with me.. in my interview i had to LEECH questions out of them , i felt i was given a stand to speak but non was bothered to try and interact back with me, honestly .. i would of rather been grilled with horrible questions that seem unfair as it would of at least been interactive RP wise than to of been blanked by most of the table

my stance on the thing of "Azapha was not granted an opportunity to provide an argument why she would be fit to the job" is somewhat mixed.. as my problem is less that the warlock thing became an issue there and the fact that i simply felt like the others did not really care to try and RP with me.. flatly Vel then refusing to speak or interact, honestly OOCly felt he might as well of gone afk, because nothing would of been different as he didnt make a single emote or /s during the whole thing bar one /w which was "is Azapha a known warlock IC" which tells me he was there, just clearly decided its not worth doing any rp with me though

Finding it hilarious how the Council won't approve on the account of someone being a warlock, but they have at least one death knight (Centax if I recall it right) in there. Something is rotten in the Council of Stormwind...

*Pun intended*

Cid wrote:Finding it hilarious how the Council won't approve on the account of someone being a warlock, but they have at least one death knight (Centax if I recall it right) in there. Something is rotten in the Council of Stormwind...

*Pun intended*

The fact that the accused parties haven't had a chance to give their side of this might be cause for not making too many assumptions about whether or not this being an absolute truth, mate. If, as you say, they have a Death Knight on the SW Council wouldn't that suggest a lax attitude towards dark magic users taking up council seats, as opposed to one where they exclude people purely based off the OOC knowledge that they are dark magic users IC?

@OP, maybe people simply found your character unengaging. Sure you play a warlock because you want those warlock vs paladin conflicts in your RP but maybe the people you're trying to conflict with find this dull and boring and would rather spend their time doing RP that is more meaningful to them and their character. It's hard to engage with someone when you have no interest in the product they're offering/the conversation they want to have.

If you're having a bad time RPing with specific people, stop RPing with them and find other people to RP with. Don't go on here and whine that they don't provide RP for your character because that's not their job and it's not a demand you can make of them.

Cid wrote:Finding it hilarious how the Council won't approve on the account of someone being a warlock, but they have at least one death knight (Centax if I recall it right) in there. Something is rotten in the Council of Stormwind...

*Pun intended*

Excuse me. I would simply like to debunk what you said

- Centax is not a Death Knight.
- Centax is not a member of the Council/Table
- There are no Death Knights within the Council. Unless that changed since last meeting (2th August)

Please take no offence, I simply seek to clarify.

The thing is, when you choose to roleplay something like a warlock, death knight, demon hunter or shadow priest you place yourself in a difficult situation. You basically close some doors by roleplaying a character that practices such magics. As we know, there has before been an in character warlock (maybe several, idk?) in the Council, but they chose not to practice their magic, atleast not so that people would consider them a warlock.
But if you apply to ministrial position and your campaign just underlines the fact that you have a lot of knowledge in demonic and void magics you can't excpect characters who follow the light to ignore that and hear you out on why it's a good thing.
Also, it's not like you ran unopposed. Even though there was some shadow vs. light thing there, you have to remember that you actually ran against someone and it's not like I was so shit that there couldn't have been a situation where Rhena would have been elected even if majority of the Council wasn't paladins. A paladin still voted for Azapha.

Guys,  stop turning this into a council debate thread, that was not what I was trying to get onto..  Already said,  I lost I got over that, that was NOT the topi

My point was about interactions..  Not what the council decided

And to talk about just oh don't rp with said person, that's hard when you have to if you wish to be involved in the council as the person who I referred to is On the council

Sorry for the offtopic then. Think I grabbed into someone else's response.

By the request of Azapha, I'll stop discussing it. But I agree with her that it can be hard to get around at times, when people mix IC with OOC. I'll head out now.

My point stands,  I expected to lose..  I put forward a case that was not about being a warlock or shadow or fel,  the irony in the council was azapha asked "what was the best stance of each of us applicants" and the replyy was "well I decided because your a warlock" which was not even an answer to the question XD..

The topic only got brought up because of as what I said in OP, I got a lot of feed back before I even left the council room,  I felt it was worth posting since enough people raised opinions about it to me in whispers

So guys, forget about the "warlock rights" crap, if I wanted to not have a harder time I would not rp what I do, the real conversation is about the fact that my interactions with some people can't budge regardless of topic or discussion,  because they won't allow for conversion to build in the first place, good or bad, because you hit a wall of ignored before being heard or one line statements that are made in a way that prevents continuation of talking (these talks are not all opposing view talks in had, some have been rather in agreeable opinions at times, so it's not just in the situation of oh I'm challenging your views)

Captain Neme Vaalen wrote:

Cid wrote:Finding it hilarious how the Council won't approve on the account of someone being a warlock, but they have at least one death knight (Centax if I recall it right) in there. Something is rotten in the Council of Stormwind...

*Pun intended*

Excuse me. I would simply like to debunk what you said

- Centax is not a Death Knight.
- Centax is not a member of the Council/Table
- There are no Death Knights within the Council. Unless that changed since last meeting (2th August)

Please take no offence, I simply seek to clarify.

The passive aggressive is strong with this one...

But in keeping with on topic, if people are going to RP with you they should at least be engaged OOC if not IC.
I get that IC opinions vary and yeah, sometimes you're just going to be a twat for the sake of it (like my own character for example) but at least show some OOC respect to the player and pay attention.

Not to drag this back to a Council debate thing, but yeah if you're on the Council this is even more important as you're expected to encourage roleplay within the community, you're a BIG part of it if you're on the Council, which I consider to include the Ministers (just because you don't vote doesn't mean you just get to sit around and be quiet doing nothing). You've taken on responsibility to be a big part of the Community and to encourage RP in SOME way by being on there and if you're going to just go afk, not pay attention and all the issues listed in this thread OOC then... Well, do you REALLY belong to be on the Council in that case?

Regarding the IC side of it, which IS important, you may be more than suitable OOC but IC you're a bit "ehhh". I think it's down to the player to decide what character they bring to the fore of course, but if you make yourself look like you're either doing bad or being a problem for the whole process on an IC level then shouldn't the other people around the table bring you up on it? If not, I think it speaks of deeper issues which would deserve its own dedicated thread.

Regardless, apologies for bringing up the Council again but I went on a bit of a rant here. I'll forget what I said in the next five minutes.

And Cid I think you're thinking of Zackarus just as an aside.

Okay. Moving away from Council stuff.

In what all subjects/topics do you encounter the "No, because you are a Warlock" wall?

I can't imagine it matter in anything else than in management positions.

There's laws against demons in the streets, same with undead, but nothing bans being a warlock on itself.

Just trying to find the red thread of thought in the heart of the subject.

Some people even thinks Warlocks are outlawed among the Alliance, entirely. It doesn't surprise me the least to hear that you're faced with these issues in your rp.

Death Knights often got the "blameless victim" thing going for them, Warlocks, spriests (and soon DH etc.) don't have that advantage, but the fact that some still sincerely believes Warlocks to be criminals by default doesn't make for a hopeful case. It just goes to say how far we are from achieving an environment where all classes and specs can be roleplayed without unnecessary prejudice. Best of luck, Azapha.

I personally believe that a Paladin could technically befriend a Warlock and that's generally the mindset I carry on into my rp. It's a simple thought process, not so much a violation of lore, but if others think otherwise there's not much we can do about it unfortunately.

Djura wrote:Some people even thinks Warlocks are outlawed among the Alliance, entirely. It doesn't surprise me the least to hear that you're faced with these issues in your rp.

Death Knights often got the "blameless victim" thing going for them, Warlocks, spriests (and soon DH etc.) don't have that advantage, but the fact that some still sincerely believes Warlocks to be criminals by default doesn't make for a hopeful case. It just goes to say how far we are from achieving an environment where all classes and specs can be roleplayed without unnecessary prejudice. Best of luck, Azapha.

I personally believe that a Paladin could technically befriend a Warlock and that's generally the mindset I carry on into my rp. It's a simple thought process, not so much a violation of lore, but if others think otherwise there's not much we can do about it unfortunately.

the point about befriending a warlock... WoD showed us a paladin work with a orc warlock to find gul dan, even helped him with the ritual to brake a fel shield blocking tthere way .. accepted his use of dark magic for a greater good

and skarain.. i had the same when Azapha offered to help hunt a warlock.. and the same when Azapha was arrested by a group when she did not do a thing, if seb had not came to her aid then.. she would of been imprisoned for being a suspected fel user who did not use magic at all in the encounter ... iv only had one encounter with a position of power per say .. all my other ones have been not (iv had the same phase used ALOT by a few, one so much so i dont think iv ever heard different which is vel)

also when Azapha tried to announce a event i had it yelled out in the back ground non stop .. it is a common thing i hear in the council.. but it gos out side too

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:

If you're having a bad time RPing with specific people, stop RPing with them and find other people to RP with. Don't go on here and whine that they don't provide RP for your character because that's not their job and it's not a demand you can make of them.

i do have one comment to this .. if you are RPing on the council.. i do think you have a responsibility to RP with others, you should not be on there if you dont want to RP with a wide range of people, this is on a OOC level because its a community event and you dont have to be a councilor or minister unless you want to , but taking up that roll i think on an OOC level you ARE putting your self in a position to rp with the larger community , if you cant do that, you dont belong there, there is a OOC commitment you are making after all as well as a IC one, you choose when you took a seat at the table

The council doesn't give you any responsibilities comparable to public office. This kind of thinking is ridiculous. They're RPers that RP characters engaging in politics. They can make the OOC decision to have their chars be as interested or disinterested in whatever they want at their own full discretion and nobody can fault them for it. What if I'm RPing a character who has such a seething hatred for warlocks that he flat out prefers to ignore their existence entirely, not acknowledge them at all. What if that character then was given a seat on the council? Are you saying that I should then be forced to alter my character just so you can feel like the council is interested in your little snowflake? If so, you're embodying one of the most self entitled stances on RP where it is other people's responsibility to make your character feel important and interesting. It's not. It's your responsibility. If your character is unimportant it will be treated as such. If your character -is- interesting, people will take an interest in it. If they don't, I'm sure you can guess the implications.

Regardless, I didn't mean the council. I meant you. And according to this thread, you were rejected for a seat on it, so that shouldn't be a concern at all for you. If you were having a bad time RPing with the council, don't RP with them. Go somewhere else. Find a different sandbox to build your sandcastle in. The council is just a gathering of players and has no power over anybody who choose to disregard it. Case in point: I stopped interacting with the council in 2013 and at no point has this meant a detriment to the amount of RP available to me. The Council is not government. The council is, at best, a neighbourhood gathering. It has no governing powers because claiming that it does means claiming control of Anduin Wrynn, which is -OBVIOUSLY- retarded, and the council has been subject to tons of criticism whenever an iteration of it claimed to have direct approval from the King to govern the kingdom.

So there you go. If you don't like the people on the council, go somewhere else. You're not entitled to their interest so if they don't display any it's nobody's fault but you for playing a character that isn't interesting to them.

You can flip that argument on its ass pretty quickly though, okay let's go with your idea, but instead we have everyone on the council has a super issue with DKs, like full ignore mode, the council Is as maelmoor says himself, a event designed to be a hub for gathering people to rp, if every council member had that mentality, then guess what, THE VERY INTENT OF THE EVENT IS NUL, BECAUSE IT FAILS at its intent at its core by auto discounting set players.. Sure like you said, go find your new sand castle, I have, I do rp else where as well, plenty of it.. But the events very intent is to gather rpers, if what I said at the start with dks becomes a reality, the event fails at its own cause,

So yes, I do think that, because if I make an event I intend on it catering to the people I am making it for, if I see my character being a hindrance to rp happening by being in said place/position , and handicaping someone else from rping, I do consider it and consider the bigger picture of if I'm really ruining someone elses rp when I could not be, sure in random rp all happens

But at the end of it all, if we make an event our selves, we consider it our responsibility to to see it do as it was intended do we not, who else would you consider responsible for an event you made to have it work as you wanted?

Do I think the council have that responsibility because they are powerful.. No.. But they are responsible for making there event work as they intend it too, because no one else will if they don't

You're assuming that the councilmember in question wants the event to work like you do. DKs can attend the council meetings and get just as much out of it as everyone else even if every single member of the council hates DKs passionately.

And it's great that you're a paragon of justice and cater to everyone when you make an event but my point is it's not other people's responsibility to make sure you feel welcome at their stuff and you can't demand that they change their ways to accomodate for you if they don't want to.

Who demanded anything,  read the title of the post.r. It says JUST SOME THOUGHTS,  not I DEMAND YOU DO STUFF

And to clarify, I cater my events to what I intend to happen and who I am inviting, sure I've ran events that don't welcome everyone, but that was not intended to which was my choice at the start

You can phrase demands as "I just think" fairly easily, and you're definitely calling people out for failing to cater to the type of RP you want.

People asked questions and I answered, , secondly.. No these was thoughts not demands, if I was demanding from people I'd tell them, not the forum, I'd get a much faster response

People ask you to go into details you ARE going to pick at the points you was thinking about when you started a debate, my first post is probably the most flatly intended to sound as I was thinking at the time out of all my posts.. I pointed out things sure but let's face it, if you see demands in that post then clearly my wording failed, it was more a (see it from the other side) approach, your still free to choose, I'm just pointing out what the other side sees

I'll try again. You are, through the way you portray your own experiences and the actions of people around you, creating a narrative in which you're a poor victim whose RP is "handicapped" and "walled out" by the inconsiderate people who, be it for OOC or IC reason, don't want to engage with your character.

I'm explaining to you that you're not "the poor victim" and the other people who didn't want to engage with your character aren't inconsiderate or in any other way the bad guys in this situation. They're free to feel that your character, for whatever reason, is not worth engaging with. That includes OOC reasons. If I quite simply feel that your character is dull and uninteresting, I won't engage, because it'd be a waste of my time to do so.

And council members do not have an obligation to engage with everybody who wants to interact with the council. You can ask for speaking time at council meetings if you want to interact with the council and, to my knowledge, the council doesn't have a habit of rejecting these requests, but if you want to engage with the council members themselves, you have to appear interesting to them, and it's not their fault if you don't.