World-pvp: we must have fun!

the name perhaps may not do this thread any justice, i wasnt entirely sure what to call it really. and i'm still not entirely sure how to phrase or set out what i'm about to try and talk about here. all i can ask is that people bare with my potential rambling and atleast pause to think on it for a few moments.

Defias Brotherhood... its a very famous name amongst the RP servers in europe, for alot of well founded reasons. we are -THE- Server for "World-RP-pvp". thats a fact, and something every single member of this community can be proud of contributing toward. we led the way in plots, in tactics, in guild organisation, and events when other servers, pve or pvp in roleplay in nature were eating the dust of the juggernaut that is our server.

Defias Brotherhood is awesome, and we can all attest to that, otherwise we wouldnt be here. but there has been a growing trend developing of late within the server (though we do still leed the way) of discontent and distrust between guilds and the factions. and it breaks my heart, honestly. i argue with people i once loved to RP with, and i'm also met with mutual distrust. and its not just me who has this problem (though most my problems are self inflicted), we are all having disputes over world pvp, and how it should work. well, whats the snag you ask, what is the problem? alot of things, i reckon, the server has matured in a sense, possibly 'stale' some may say, or just fundamentally changed.

IC grievances have become OOC ones, and worse, even become feuds and hatreds that tear guilds, plot's and roleplay in general apart. and il raise my hand, i'm a culprit. we dont have the same massive multi-guild conflicts we used too, we dont have the random patrols, battles, and world defence responses we used too. why? ...WoW isnt as fresh anymore i suppose, perhaps we dont care? or things jsut feel bitter.

i want to go back to how things used to be, in vanilla, and TBC. i do like how the server is now in some respects, but i also want to see a return to some of our more glory days. a fresh, clean, equel, and mutual beneficial start to World pvp on our server, for the betterment of our community. we cant spend everyday arguing over who did what, why, when and how in smaller threads creating more arguments, grudges, which all equate to one thing in the end... less events, smaller events, less Roleplay, and Defias losing its reputation.

okay... so that was just the start, i can see a wall of text coming. so bare with me, get a cup of tea... we may be in for a long one.

firstly we need to do -one- thing. we need a mass server group hug. we need to take a deep breath. we need to forgive, apologise and forget. and move on. i'm no saint, i'm most definatly a pain in the neck. so yes. i am SORRY. to every single person i have ever had an argument with, grudge with or fued with. from KoA to DRS, to Geldar, saihna and anaei. i am sorry, and i mean it. ...now you try, we all need too for this to work. i suggest getting things off your chest in a reply to this thread also! youl feel better for it! trust me, i do!

there, a clean slate... we have to build on that, and trust each other. no more ill intent or looking after number one. we are one big happy community, brothers and sisters, a family.

so, whats next on the list? ahh yes, the problems that caused all these argument in world pvp... man, this is going to be a long list. just bare with me. you dont have to argue, agree or like what i say, by no means. but in the end, if we dont agree to something, a mutual Ethos or like minded way of doing things server wide... we can kiss our world pvp goodbye. so i'l start from the top.

1) Territorial domination and random battles.

yeah, we used to have alot of roaming battles, all hours of the day, and it was fun. we all loved it. we complimented each other on tactics, manouvers, suprises and nobody gloated, nobody felt sore. we all enjoyed the end outcome. what changed you ask? ... a few things. i personaly think its down to a territorial mind set of claiming things, locations and entire regions. contested zones should be exactly that, contested.

i know what your thinking... "but my guild is an entire kingdom, or the armies of ironforge! we can let ANY horde in here!" ...well thats true, but a contested zone is a contested zone, so if theres an enemy outpost there, its clearly not all yours. it may seem stale to stay so static in this idea, but a complete reset is what we need. so... let it go. let loose, drop, forget about any 'territory' you have, just forget it. a prime example is ashenvale i suppose, it has both horde and alliance camps, so lets keep it that way. if the Orc's beat the elves in a battle there, we shouldnt claim an area or the region, simply say we won said battle... go back to our hutt's and drink our ale. and vice versa, should the elves kick our green behinds, they go back to their tree houses, gaining nothing, losing nothing... but they get the honour of saying they kicked our arses.

thats not saying you cant attack a town, by no means, go for it, have fun, draw an enemy response. say you set it to flame. that means when you leave, the enmy can RP out cleaning the place up, just dont say you CONQUERED IT. i know, it may seem counter productive, whats the point you ask? well... this way, we dont argue over who wins what, own's what, and why. arguments averted...

i'm enjoying my cup of tea, i hope your's is nice... i may need to get that apple. anyway!

the second half to this is random battles, what i suggest is two dediated nights a week to world pvp. thats not to say we cant do things other nights for those who cant attend (and two nights greatly helps everyone). two nights a week, where all the military guilds, go out on patrols, raids, or answer world defence. so yeah, turn those blue shields off, throw cuation to the wind and embrace what our server is about. turn those local and world defence channels on, ride out with your pals, seek the enemy and have a blast in kicking some ass, whatever the outcome. you dont have to win, you dont have to lose. just have fun scrapping, fighting, biting and pummeling each other. use strategy, train your troops in handy tactics. set up ambushes along roads you know your enemy will patrol. hell... jsut as long as we all get out there and have fun. think of it all as... the annivarsary war... but twice a week!

2) complaints - what a nightmare!

we all hate it, dont we? when that dam rogue ganks us in a city, in our rp gear? ...well i hate it too. and i know many of you do. which is why you switch to blue-shield and log over to the other faction with an alt and complain. but... why? its an RP-pvp server. thats what this server was made for, that ever present fear, and looming danger that the enemy could show up anytime. this apply's to many situations, not jsut city's ofc. and you have EVERY right to blueshield if a rogue or some out of character individual is greifing you, be it in a city or friendly zone. but what about the In character assassins, the in character city attacks, the in character patrols through your territory?

the in character side wont be helped by logging over and hurling abuse ... its an RP-pvp server, its meant to be dangerous. blue shielding constantly so that assassin sent by the undead to kill the paladin cant even 'try' to get his job done, doesnt help the rogue... it's just not fair. in some respects.

need another cup of tea... anyway! i digress, where was i? right... blue shielding and whining about a situation doesnt help anyone when the person in question -is- in character, isnt doing anything wrong, and isnt camping. so switch those shields off, enjoy the fear of the unkown. hell, just think, you can send out assassins too this way, and the other faction can live in fear of you, and you dont have to worry about a complaint. it benefits both factions across all spectrums. blueshield when you need too, complain when its appropriate. it opens up roleplay, not stems it.

3) Gear - oh no... not this bit!

this subject is a horrible, horrid subject to touch right now. though its not an old one either. i first came to defias in september 2005... and sicne then i have 'heard' of attempts to have RP-pvp battles in rp gear. i recall hearing of arguments. but now, its become somewhat of a fad, a fun craze. and for some it does work, for some. but for many others, we like how our real gear works, we dont want to spend gold needlessly on a set that we dont want or like the look of.

i have to be careful here, to make sure i dont degenerate purely into my own thoughts...

i myself dont care about gear really, i really really dont. but RP gear battles are VERY hard to regulate. and they dont increase 'fairness'. lets get that clear. balanced HP pools equate to nothing either, healers and mana pools are far more relative to the outcome. but the bare and bones of it is, 'rp gear' battles should be exactly that... letting people wear what they want to wear, for RP. otherwise its just trying to look pretty and balance Health pools. which causes arguments... which causes grudges... and we go back to square one of despair and a lack of events. it's not good.

i wont go with the opinion that an individual should win becuase they worked for better gear, that benefits nobody. but people on the opposite faction have absolutely -no- right to tell YOU what you can and cannot wear as roleplay gear. if they do, they are complaining about balance, which is unachievable. let people wear what they wish. becuase i for one cant see any simple or plausible solution to this debate. we cant all wear the same, we cant all wear the same level, we cant have balance through it.

man, this is some dam nice tea. i highly recomend twinings chai... anyhow...

my opinion of the matter is if people insist on closed events, and rp gear... ...dont do it for 'balance'. becuase it doesnt work, we've all seen the flame fests of late, trying to enforce it. it just doesnt work. we can strive for balance, and immersion, but we live a a game based around warfare in a fantasy universe, surreal and radical military advantages are all too required, apparent and likely. so my advice, if someone ganks you in full relentless while your in level 60 rp gear... dont complain, dont get angry. if you have 'real' gear thats just as good, switch to it, be a challenge, enjoy the challenge! ...call for friends, or simply... retreat. and i would expect no less from others. if i was in my rp gear (which isnt all that good for pvp) and i was kileld by a ful lfurious ret paladin, i'd switch to real gear and try my luck. failing that... i'd scarper off or call for help. theres no need to hold a grudge, grudges which cause arguments, cause problems... and ruin the community. and yes, this will be my ethos from now, but i still wish to wear my actual pvp gear in all pvp battles, its my individual right to wear what i wish, as is it anyone elses. so dont make it a rule... just say to people... "wear what -you- want"... and tell them to have fun doing it. can we come to some accord? can we all agree to take it as it comes, arise to the challenge, or suffer the consequences of bumping into a full relentless mage while wearing a tuxedo? ...sometimes we just have to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

fun is what matters, right?

4) IC and OOC - this may be complicated

not the easiest of subjects to touch on. but we often have arguments over what one faction and what the other will and wont acknowledge... hopefully some of what i proposed earlier regarding territorial gains and lossess being scrapped should stop people boycotting 'occurances' ...becuase quite frankly you'd have nothing to lose this way. then again we all want something to gain eh? ...well, dont be greedy! victory should be enough >_o

Toffee makes the world go round, oh yes... wlel my world anyway.

anyway, we cant all just go pointing fingers and screaming "it didnt happen" becuase we didnt like it. we have to be tolerant, we have to be open minded, and forgiving. sometimes things just dont go our way. and i know, i'm one to talk, and i apologised, if anyone reading this wants that apology in person or directly to them, just ask. clean slates matter! i have wronged people.

so if you lose a battle, or an enemy overpwoered you a bit roughly, try not to throw the "that was ooc!" line, try not to say a raid on a city was "OOC! you cant do that with all the guards!", dont ignore assassins who get you with no armour on... it ruins RP for the other faction. and remember, both sides can do these things, so let them... i would welcome attacks on orgrimmar, i would welcome assassins trying to kill krogon, i would welcome defeats in battle. teres nothing wrong with it, you can RP losing, cleaning up a mess, or being injured... just as much as you can RP victory. so i suppose this links back to the blue-shield comment. why not make it a community wide rule? only blue shield under threat of out of characters? i'l sign up for it. and welcome attempts to come chase me down. (i'm going to regret this... but the community matters more than my green behind). so yeah... what i'm saying is. we should welcome people kicking our assess. but ALSO people shouldnt go overboard in the same respect. one kill is enough...

5) Rules - an opinionated bussiness

i think i will keep this rather brief, as really people on this server seem to still appreciate the same two rules i do. across all guilds. and lets be honest, they have served us all well.

Dont Corpse camp

Dont kill newly ressed players

simple really, it means once a player has been defeated, they can res in safety... eat, regroup with others and carry on. but for goodness sakes guys, give them a chance! let them run... be mercifull, be kind. dont just hang around in stealth waiting to attack them the second theyh reach full health... mercy and empathy can go a long way. otherwise if you do kill them... in my book its no better than camping anyway.

the end...

well not really, my mad ramble is over, yes. these are the major points i wanted to bring up. they are completely open to debate. they are how vanilla and TBC w-pvp used to work, for the most part. and i would so love to see a return to these ways, i cant speak for others, but i get the feeling many would like the old days back too.

so make amends with people, say your sorry. a fresh, clean, happy slate. no anger, no grudges. i am SORRY, and i mean it to everybody on this server. all we have to do, is try it together. i dont know if this will be an initiative or even a proposed rule set... but if we all extend trust, and a sense of community, and friendship. we really have nothing to fear.

let's kick start this juggernaught again. and have the fun, we came here for.

*hugs*

Well said. But I think you forgot one thing(or I just missed it). It's peoples e-peens/ego's clashing that cause most of the drama. What with people trying to be the EPIC HERO OF JUSTICE AND AWESOME.

Spot on otherwise.

A very nice read Krogon and genuinely gave me a feeling of refreshment. I'd love to contribute to this in any possible way I can. 

^^

Ok first of all I feel old, cause that wall of text messed my eyes up forcing me to take out the glasses to read it. Not to mention that I'm tired and overall feel like an elderly today.

I appreciate the thread overall, and the apologizes and take a moment to apologize for whatever shit I've caused during my time here also. Even before this thread I've felt I've been a bit on the way, making a manse with old grudges such as Geldar as an example. And it truly does feel better. At the same time, I'm enjoying myself RL right now, thus get easily agitated when people taunt me, thus my temper has been a bit short lately.

Okey so anyhow, I just want to pat the topics lightly for now as I'm seriously tired as said. Been a loooong day.

Beginning with territory. This sounds reasonable to me, specially with Cataclysm behind the corner. I tried to soothe my own power-hunger a bit back and withdrew our claimed ownership of Hillsbrad, simply because I was truly tired of people constantly calling KoA lore-lol. Hence I thought it was a better idea to only focus on Arathi. With that said, I've heard others claiming to own places that seems a bit.. Odd. And further added to it, Arador has plans to launch some form of crusade in the hopes of "taking it back". I admit I've been seriously reluctant (you can ask Arador if you don't take my word for it), and I still am. But at the same time I have trust in Aradors events, and reputation that I think he could pull it off. Whether or not he will.. We'll we will see I guess. I think he's a bit busy with RL stuff himself at this time.


So blue-shielding. Well.. I'm not sure how to stand here. I understand the whole.. open world, assassins and all that. But at the same time there is nothing more frustrating then being in the middle of RP in Stormwind and suddenly have someone gank you for no reason at all (with that said, the most frustrating ones are of course those that are obviously not RPers at all). I have nothing against assassination attempts etcetera, but personally I'd prefer it if that assassin let me know on msn or through an alt first. Then I'd gladly be in PvP mode for the comming RP and consider it such. Then again, I must also point out that this I felt mostly frustrating when I played mostly on Saihna. When I was merely in Stormwind or whatever city for AH and not there IC. Being ganked when you wish to simply handle your things and head back to Arathi.. It simply and truly made a blood-vessel in my forehead tick. Now mostly being on Julia and actually IC in Stormwind I might consider not blue-shielding all the time but, somehow I suspect that something is going to make me change my mind about that also.

Overall on this topic, I think it's simply up to each person/guild. Naturally, being blue-shielded and attacking from that if an enemy is close is lame, but if you just mind your business and let possible attackers do the same then I still think its up to each individual.


Gear issue. Hmm.. I can't say I have a lot to add here. I don't mind either to be honest. If they asked me to pull out the RP gear for events, I would, and same with PvP. I also think this is a bit up to the organizers and what they intend for the event. Perhaps it's more ideally to create more WPvP events with different 'rules'. Some which is in favor for the people wishing to wear Rp gear, and some in favor for the ones for PvP. Just a suggestion.


IC vs OOC, hard topic. We're all different individuals here, with all different minds and opinions. And no matter how much we say that it's our characters, I think by default we all mix IC and OOC a bit now and then, and follow our own believed morally correct rules from OOC, and use that for IC. I think the thing that is needed simply, is communication and a friendly approach (and I can't say I go by that myself all of the time either. I tend to nerdrage to get frustration out and away from me, and later realize my faults). But yeah.. Just simply more open-mindedness, communication and a friendly approach.

I think there is something as you say, Krogon, that we've grown up, and that the server/game is old by now. Instead of taking it for fun we now get annoyed and agitated. In a way normal I guess. A lot of things in this game can frustrate you, and thus a lot of drama appears. It's sad, and a hard thing to sort. But eh, I'm willing to try at least. I'd also much like to go back to the days when I enjoyed the game, and not as it is now, getting frustrated just logging on and seeing some drama going on/having someone whisper me how shit I am cause I RP Saihna/accidentally, or intently just causing drama cause of frustration and lack of communication and will from all parts to compromise.



Well, I realize if some of the things I wrote sounded weird. But again, I am utterly beat today. My body feels like spaghetti and my brain like pudding.

I don't care whether I get to wear my wrathful or my S4 gear in a RP-PvP event tbh. I go with the flow and whatever is decided by those organizing the event, unless of course the attackers are obviously not RPers or they suddenly decide to sway out of the agreement :3

Well said though, I liked the post greatly; apart from the lack of capital letter (...and yes, I like to upset you, you know that).

Mandui wrote:I don't care whether I get to wear my wrathful or my S4 gear in a RP-PvP event tbh. I go with the flow and whatever is decided by those organizing the event, unless of course the attackers are obviously not RPers or they suddenly decide to sway out of the agreement :3

Well said though, I liked the post greatly; apart from the lack of capital letter (...and yes, I like to upset you, you know that).

=D

I wish more players would have such a genuinely community-building attitude.

Including myself.

Agreed! I've been RPing and PvPing on DB since the server first started and all I can remember is that world PvP, whilst completely unfair, is always great fun :)

I think that many who post here could learn a little restraint with the understanding that it's best to be a good sport instead of whittling away at the content of events and the fun others may have had.

How about we pick a zone, Have Alliance sit in one camp and Rp all together, and Horde sit in the horde camp and Rp all together. Both parties can patrol the zones, clashing throughout say the week. 


Set your hearthstone to the camp and such, go their for the evening Rp. We could even RP NPC mobs causing issues for us to resolve?

That was a pretty epic rant right there, Krogan.

And for being tired yours was pretty epic too, Saihna.

I personally dont know much about the old world-pvp, as I have only been here about 8 months or so, I aint too sure. So, I really dont have much to say on the matter.

I think that many who post here could learn a little restraint with the understanding that it's best to be a good sport instead of whittling away at the content of events and the fun others may have had.

I go to anger managment for that! D:

I've said it from the beginning sweet heart, no matter the disagreements we've had. You've still been a part of my life on Defias, and many may not realise it but some of those times were god.. Help you even helped me try orcish rp, still planning to get back to that when I have time.

Basically, I think just as we've been doing on the Alliance, the -server- needs to come together to make things fun again. We've fallen into a hole of OOC QQ that really needs to end.

So thank you, I accept your apology whole-heartedly and look forward to good times hereafter. Also, with any luck I can rally the people I can and put forward to more world-pvp and I am sure Arathor will aswell once we've re-established.

Been a while since I had a "ye olde W-PvP" battle, bring it on!

Read your post and I agree with a lot of things.

First, I'll comment on the gear issue:
Seeing that almost every Cult pvp event is an RP geared one, I've mostly had my experiences on that. And you're right... Some say that RP gear promotes equality, gives lowbies a chance and whatnot. But the battles always seem to degenerate into Orwellian gear checking and reporting every 'wrongdoer' on the otherside. Lowbies usually get oneshotted anyway and after the event the mood is sour, frustrated and sad. RP gear battles are a good idea and it's really grand looking to have lines full of people in epic RP gear. But sometimes it feels like it's a too good idea. For us flawed humans anyway.

Free choice on gear wouldn't necessary make it better (we'd still get swarmed, lowbies still oneshotted as the Cults pvp usually ends)... but atleast it would simplify things. No need for OOC gearchecks and reporting after every battle. I certainly would like to try it in some battle, just to see if there's any difference. Perhaps a compromise: People bring both sets, use RP for the beginning roleplay and possible screenie pictures. Then switch to PvP gear to duke it out. Seeing we got the gear manager, swapping shouldn't be that big of a problem. Then if the other team's completely overwhelmed, some special rules could be arranged on the spot. Call it nerfing the winner, if you want, but I doubt that facerolling without a challenge is that fun in the long run. (I've mostly been on the underdog side, so these opinions might favour them... try to understand! xP )

Mmm, really lovely tea!

I like your suggestion about the casual PvP. Adding some randomness sounds really interesting! I've not been here since Vanilla, so it might be my newborn optimism speaking, but I'd support those pvp evenings or battlezones. It'd add some randomness (and so, suspense) to pvp. A breeze after all the arranged battles with set attack moments and places.
Also there's a promise for interguild RP, say for example: Forsaken have their deathstalkers waiting to ambush something in the bushes. Orc patrol hears their rustle and charges to cull the unhonourable alliance! After a short clash they notice they're on the same side and hilarity ensues!

Finally something about the 'random pvp' and blueshielding:
I agree that PvP always on would bring suspense into the play, but I agree with Saihna too. It would always be better in my opinion to make some OOC arrangements before 'big' happenings like that. In my eyes it would enhance the RP, as without any knowledge about the background, the fateful assassination would easily look like a random gank. With some planning and arrangements between the individuals, the assassination (or attempt at it) could bring forth so much RP around it! Maybe the assassin left behind a clue? Or the deed failed, but left the victim horribly wounded? Or maybe he picked a wrong target? Possibilities are endless!
And they wouldn't even have to take all of the suspense away. They could leave the exact time unknown, just make sure there's a time for both to be online for it. And it would come as a complete surprise for the others.

I don't really care for territory and don't think I can add anything new to the IC/OOC topic. Also I'm sleepy too, so perhaps I'll look on them in detail later.

Thanks for the tea, few (not me) have the guts to be that honest. This needs some time to digest, but as you said Defias is THE server. We can endure, we can improve and we can be a big happy community. I've never regretted coming here in the first place!

In the end to keep with the threads feel: I'm sorry for everything offendable I might have made! My memory (and sometimes attitude) isn't the best, so don't be afraid to poke me, if I screw up. Also I'm sorry for being so passive and uncertain in community work. n.n

I've been waiting for someone to mention the territory part for so long! I've always disliked people claiming shit *Hugs*

In honour of this rant, I'd like to begin the 'preparations' for a W-PvP event this week.
So far my ideas are alliance attacks horde one day.
All depending on the result, then either alliance attacks deeper in horde domains, or horde attacks alliance.
Bring - The gear you want, your friends and most importantly...
Tea.. (To douse any urge for flaming)

Rargnasha wrote:In honour of this rant, I'd like to begin the 'preparations' for a W-PvP event this week.
So far my ideas are alliance attacks horde one day.
All depending on the result, then either alliance attacks deeper in horde domains, or horde attacks alliance.
Bring - The gear you want, your friends and most importantly...
Tea.. (To douse any urge for flaming)

...no cookies? You can't be serious about having tea without cookies.

Also, I'd like to hereby make known that the above person abused me in Dalaran. I hope Koz has some strict regulations regarding this sort of behavior.

Huzzah!

Rargnasha wrote:I'd like to begin the 'preparations' for a W-PvP event this week.
So far my ideas are alliance attacks horde one day.

Bring - The gear you want.

Nice.

Looking forward to it.

*edit* People usually use the example "If you want PvP, go to a Battleground", but I don't recall the last time PvP'ing in a Battleground has been fun. Whether it's with randoms, or premades, I'm just doing it as an old habbit. However, PvP'ing on your own server with familiar faces, faction vs faction, players that you can actually rely on, with no use of OOC and a more interesting use of territory is alot more fascinating. So I'm definitely looking forward to the next whatsoever w-pvp battle.

I'm typing this right after my morning jog on my blackberry, so please excuse any crazy typos. I may just retype another, more intelligible result that actually has any thought put into it later but whatever: ;)

I must say, your post was most certainly refreshing. I know I sound like a broken record, but I've always found that what happened before and after the actual battle (the preparations, i.e. gathering supplies, healing the wounded, commemorating/grieving the fallen etc.) was way more fun than the battle itself and they lasted more than just 5 minutes or 3 hours or however long the battle is - sometimes they even lasted for a couple of weeks! If I wanted to PvP and have fun, I'd go to a battleground and PvP there! The most fun I've ever had in RP-PvP was on my warrior, who's barely even level 36. Heck, I had a lot more fun on her than I ever did on my priestess!

What really makes me sad is how aggressive and sometimes even just plain rude some people on our realm can be! The role-playing community already faces a lot of prejudice as it is, why are we trying to create even more drama among ourselves? "He did this" and "he did that" arguments are, to put it bluntly, stupid. Thankfully, we've had barely any, if any, problems like that in Kalimdor. Maybe it's because we're fewer in numbers or maybe it's just that we don't have the mountain air (i.e. that cesspool you people call Khaz Modan :p!) muffling up our noses.

To put it simply: be nice and hug each other out-of-character! Let it all out in-character, not over the forum.

PS. I hate toffee. Yuck! :(

Thenkar's really said my view on it, don't have anything to add at the moment, but I woke up 20 minutes ago so...

Oh, and Thenkar, do you have any idea by how much you're exceeding my expectations?

I wouldn't mind going back to the "nerfing the winner" thing as long as both sides can bring up the patience for it.

Actually, you forgot the most important thing to bring along to a w-pvp event.

-An experienced leader, preferably with skype-connection to other faction's general, who can command people to 'stop', 'attack', 'not attack' and 'pull back' and be followed.

With experienced leaders on both sides you can enforce any kind of rules on the event one might desire. "Right guys. Today we fight with fishing poles. all other weapons are forbidden!" "SIR, YES SIR!"