The Shadow Realm

So let me see if I em right now.
- The shadow realm is another layer on top of Azeroth.
- It is strongly connected to the Spirit realm
- Necromansy was "Invented" by the Eredar
- Using Death gate you will bend the shadow realm acoring you your will and instantly get teleported to where you wanted in the shadow realm and then open a new Death Gate that lets you walk out of the shadow realm and into the living once again.


Now for three small questions.
- The Shadow magic you use is it drawn from the spirits in the Shadow realm or the Shadow realm itself?
- If a living human where to enter the shadow realm how long would he be able to survive?
- If so what would he die from most likely?

- The Shadow magic you use is it drawn from the spirits in the Shadow realm or the Shadow realm itself?
- If a living human where to enter the shadow realm how long would he be able to survive?
- If so what would he die from most likely?

First one i doubt so, i found this on wowwiki, not sure if it's good and all right, but i'm bad at explaining and it's least close to right.

The shadow energy (aka Shadow Plane) is not limited to a single plane; it is instead an integral part of every aspect of the universe, woven into every plane. Thus, spells that call upon this energy, such as shadow conjuration, draw upon local sources rather than reaching to another plane.

Second. You don't know. It's not really a known thing. Somehow a druid gets into the Shadow realm (See original post, one quote), but how long or how did she get there is a mystery.

If you'd die, i'd asume those spirits there would have a gnaw on you. More or less you can just make logical asumptions on that.

Martha Duskbringer wrote:Now for three small questions.
- The Shadow magic you use is it drawn from the spirits in the Shadow realm or the Shadow realm itself?
- If a living human where to enter the shadow realm how long would he be able to survive?
- If so what would he die from most likely?

1) Shadow magic manipulates the innate shadow energy that is woven through every thing that exists (age, disease, and decay all happen because of innate shadow energy in the world). While some shadow magic does call from the Shadow Realm (conjuration spells, namely, such as summoning a Deathcharger), the majority manipulate local sources.

2) Depends on what kind of preparations he's made. A simple peasant sent to the Shadow Realm with no precautions would probably die within moments. A highly knowledgeable necromancer could survive much, much longer, if he uses proper application of wards and makes other preparations.

3) The innate shadow energy would eat him alive. The Shadow Realm is an elemental plane like any other. While there may be "safe" areas, like in other elemental planes, the majority of the plane is pure elemental energy. Without magical protection that energy will, in the case of the Shadow Realm, inflict the full might of shadow corruption upon them. Very rapid aging, bodily decay, and mental degradation.

So lets say I open a Death gate to the Scholomance and then take a human with me trough it. Would he survive and get to scholomance or would he die before even reaching the other gate?
Would he even be able to get inside the gate?!

Edit: Omg you guys are fast to answer! That is the main thing I like about this Forum.

Martha Duskbringer wrote:So lets say I open a Death gate to the Scholomance and then take a human with me trough it. Would he survive and get to scholomance or would he die before even reaching the other gate?
Would he even be able to get inside the gate?!

Most Ebon Knights I've RPed with have treated Death Gate travel as being very unsafe for the living. It's possible you could bring a living being with you through it, but if you want them to survive you'd probably have to give them some precautions (anti-shadow magic wards etc), which the common death knight may not be capable of.

Don't forget the screaming! There's gunna be lots of screaming! <3

Nah but seriously my understanding of the Shadow Realm sound set it's distant wails and agonized whispers right? Or am I confused? (Since it seems every spirit in it is pretty pissed off, naturally I assume it's never pleasant.)

Yup, there'd be a lot of that no doubt.

That reminds me.. We should get a new cult up in the north, the roleplayers in the north is currently mostly going south or just sitting at bridges *Looks at Lawson* Going to start working at it but I need a reason and someone who can be a real leader and not me.

Just a thought-... Long time ago since I did Draenei start quests, but I think that I remember something about those totems.. You get help to get to the different totems (those small hairy troll-like men I've forgotten the name of) - I think it's the one of the last totems you find, where he turns you into a phanter, where your screen goes somewhat black and blurry, aswell as swaying.. Now, I'm not sure wether this even are the shadow realm, or something else. (P.S, wrote on phone, so sorry if it's hard to get sense out of.)

I do agree with Drustai that the Spirit Realm and the Shadow Realm are, if not the same thing, very tightly connected. More than Azeroth is connected to either two. It may be possible that the Shadow Realm is a sub-layer of the Spirit Realm.

As for travelers in the Shadow Realm, it's quite evident that Death Knights (as well as other undead and necromancers) are able to exist in the realm quite nicely. As far as mortals, as we saw a Cenarion Scout was trapped inside but we have absolutely no affirmation on the time period. I assume that it is quite a volatile and corrupting realm to be within and can cause negative impacts on whoever is inside. Still, I believe if a Death Knight keeps in close proximity to whoever they are traveling with, passage can be done safely. Lose the Death Knight and face peril. The most of which would be the shadowy beings that inhabit the realm.

Now I wonder how this realm is affected by say Shadow Priests and Rogues. Both of who live with shadows. I know that Rogues can live and breathe shadow but I'm not sure they're connected in the same way to the Shadow Realm that Death Knights are.

EShadowsong wrote:Now I wonder how this realm is affected by say Shadow Priests and Rogues. Both of who live with shadows. I know that Rogues can live and breathe shadow but I'm not sure they're connected in the same way to the Shadow Realm that Death Knights are.

Rogues no. They are minor shadowcasters, they know a few shadow spells, but have no deep connection to it.

Shadow Priests on the other hand would certainly have some connection with it. Hell, Forsaken SPriests work to ascend into true shadow beings, which would certainly thrive on the Shadow Realm. I could imagine devout SPriests actually making a thing of visiting the Shadow Realm regularly as a sort of pilgramage, and it's quite likely that they summon their minions from the Shadow Realm (Psyfiend, Shadowfiend, etc).

Drustai wrote: Rogues no. They are minor shadowcasters, they know a few shadow spells, but have no deep connection to it.

I thought, when rogues uses Shadowstep, they walk through the shadow-realm?

Jasmine wrote:

Drustai wrote: Rogues no. They are minor shadowcasters, they know a few shadow spells, but have no deep connection to it.

I thought, when rogues uses Shadowstep, they walk through the shadow-realm?

Yes, but that's still just a single spell. Anyone can use a spell if they learn the proper formula. That doesn't mean they have some great affinity to Shadow in the way of death knights and shadowpriests. It's just "minor mysticism" (which is what the class description specifically says).

shadow realm is actually WoW version of jumanji, and if there isn't a sadistic warlock-made game board to access it, then there should be.

Zalorah wrote:shadow realm is actually WoW version of jumanji, and if there isn't a sadistic warlock-made game board to access it, then there should be.

Omfg this times twenty million

Drustai wrote:

Jasmine wrote:

Drustai wrote: Rogues no. They are minor shadowcasters, they know a few shadow spells, but have no deep connection to it.

I thought, when rogues uses Shadowstep, they walk through the shadow-realm?

Yes, but that's still just a single spell. Anyone can use a spell if they learn the proper formula. That doesn't mean they have some great affinity to Shadow in the way of death knights and shadowpriests. It's just "minor mysticism" (which is what the class description specifically says).

Personally, the way I envision it is rogues don't use magic at all. I think it's more like sleight-of-hand. Shadowstep is just basically being sneaky and sly, managing to get into the perfect blind spot and get behind your opponent. One of the required items to use Vanish was vanishing powder, back in the day. I just don't see rogues as having actual spells at all.

Farelin/Dijie wrote:

Drustai wrote:

Jasmine wrote:

Drustai wrote: Rogues no. They are minor shadowcasters, they know a few shadow spells, but have no deep connection to it.

I thought, when rogues uses Shadowstep, they walk through the shadow-realm?

Yes, but that's still just a single spell. Anyone can use a spell if they learn the proper formula. That doesn't mean they have some great affinity to Shadow in the way of death knights and shadowpriests. It's just "minor mysticism" (which is what the class description specifically says).

Personally, the way I envision it is rogues don't use magic at all. I think it's more like sleight-of-hand. Shadowstep is just basically being sneaky and sly, managing to get into the perfect blind spot and get behind your opponent. One of the required items to use Vanish was vanishing powder, back in the day. I just don't see rogues as having actual spells at all.

The description says they use minor mysticism, and they have a level 90 ability that entails evoking Shadow energy from the surrounding environment in order to inflict actual Shadow elemental damage with their weapons. (note the description. There's nothing non-magical about that)

I think using some small spells makes far more sense than thinking everything a rogue does is completely mundane, because they do some trippy stuff. Plus, acknowledging them as spells means you don't have to get bothered when rogues decide to actually use their Stealth abilities... ICly (*gasp!*).

I mean, they can leave an illusion of themselves after vanishing. They can create illusions based off of their targets. They can turn themselves and everyone around them invisible. They can make themselves briefly immune to magic. If all that isn't magic, I don't know what is.

We're in WarCraft, not Game of Thrones. Rogues to me are more like Arcane Tricksters or Shadowdancers than actual mundane thieves. Far as I'm concerned, even Warriors use minor magic. That's how I explain Heroic Leap, Shockwave, and so on. Makes far more sense than thinking those things are actually normal abilities, or worse, OOCly refusing to acknowledge them.

I'd not say warriors use magic, that's just them being the hulk or damn strong. But in general Rogue as a full class would generally work as Dru stated.

OF COURSE! People forget rogues are versatile. Even in RP. Doesn't mean everyone of them used slight magic, they can just be very sneaky. And stealth can be magic or just beaing sneaky and hiding around corners and so on.
Cloak of shadows can be a magical ward, or a shadow defensive ability, or heck a warded cloak or something.
Also from the link of Stealth : "Stealth is not invisibility. You can be detected by others." if you follow game mechanics then that's it. Even magical stealth isn't 100% perfect.

We're in WarCraft, not Game of Thrones.

Jaqen is a perfect rogue example there being able to change your face is surely not just a trick.

Drustai wrote:
I think using some small spells makes far more sense than thinking everything a rogue does is completely mundane, because they do some trippy stuff. Plus, acknowledging them as spells means you don't have to get bothered when rogues decide to actually use their Stealth abilities... ICly (*gasp!*).

I am okay with spells of a rogue, but going as far as full game-mechanic stealth is something I don't agree with. Shadowstep I am a bit iffy with and IC stealthers I despise unless done in a very dark area and an emote is given first before entering stealth. I have seen people stealth across an open area IC in the middle of the day in the bright sunlight, and it makes me -cringe-.

Stealth has many interpretations, but it should never be used easily as if clicking a button and you're full on almost unable to find.

Plus anyway why would a rogue even attack in mid day (Is he is that stelthy type magic user).

Plus mastering all that magic stuff is hard enough while training to be sneaky and basically the main physical thing. You can't be the strongest and best at close combat as well as best magic user. Same goes here. Then again that's not about classes that's just peoples fault they RP stealth the more unlogical way. Don't blame the class blame the player.

Also on topic. Shadowstep probably could go into the shadow realm, but probably again you'd surely use it in a dark place or when it's darker, when shadows are all around. Somehow surely those could IMO work kind of Ley lines to the shadow realm, since why not, but that's just how you want to RP it out. As long as it's fair to everyone and not OP and makes some logical sense, why not?

The whole 'let's ignore the game altogether' again? It's tremendously obvious that rogues use basic shadow magic to do their abilities. As for me, I've always rped them IC, especially later when my rogue actually learnt through time how to use that minor magic. Sure, he will do such when it makes sense, and hell he won't stealth in the middle of Cathedral Square(besides, any person who tell their secrets out in the open is very dumb, and no stealth would be necessary at all). Sure, basic rules of rp, means no poweremoting/godemoting asks ou to give people anyway the chance to answer to your actions, means, you should make them aware(through whispers at least) that you're there.

I'm with Dru also on the fact that rogues in general don't actually get into the shadow realm or have esoteric knowledge about the shadow spells they use: the class from how Blizzard presents it, it's a tricky selfish one, which uses all the means necessary to get the job done, including shadow magic. But it's like the student who studies the day before the test to get it done and instead the student who studies everyday because he really loves the subject. Only the second has real knowledge of what it is and what are the consequences.

I love to see rogues RPed as natural shadow users without education. On the other hand I can and have RPed them as just rogues :p

Longknife/Decurius wrote:It's tremendously obvious that rogues use basic shadow magic to do their abilities.

I disagree with that. When I SEE my rogue doing something, I don't instantly see it as magic. I believe it can be explained without having to rely on Shadow magic, personally. I will never RP a rogue as a spell-casting magic-user, personally, because it does not make sense to me.

A rogue is a thug, a thief, a spy, a scout...they use basic skills, they don't go to fancy schools to learn tricks. The names and graphics of their actions are misleading, in my opinion. They can call what they do a form of mysticism, but I'll always see it as strictly being some sort of sleight-of-hand/modern-day-like magic tricks.

Stating they use Shadow magic just makes me feel like someone wants to be a special snowflake. *shudders and flees*

Farelin/Dijie wrote:

Longknife/Decurius wrote:It's tremendously obvious that rogues use basic shadow magic to do their abilities.

I disagree with that. When I SEE my rogue doing something, I don't instantly see it as magic. I believe it can be explained without having to rely on Shadow magic, personally. I will never RP a rogue as a spell-casting magic-user, personally, because it does not make sense to me.

A rogue is a thug, a thief, a spy, a scout...they use basic skills, they don't go to fancy schools to learn tricks. The names and graphics of their actions are misleading, in my opinion. They can call what they do a form of mysticism, but I'll always see it as strictly being some sort of sleight-of-hand/modern-day-like magic tricks.

Stating they use Shadow magic just makes me feel like someone wants to be a special snowflake. *shudders and flees*

Well... the point is they can use shadow magic. Shadowstep/cloak of shadows ect. Obviously some things are game mechanics, I do not see warriors jumping ten yards and charging leaving a line of flame behind them but in the case of rogues they could have called the ablities something less provocative. In Azeroth mosst living beings have the ablity for magic it seems, try to think of a race without casters, even the lower forms of life have them. Rather than Snow flake I think it is logical if you existed in a world where magic is as real as physics. I would not stop there either, prob most people could be "Initutive arcanists" and thinking in terms of some other races even more so than humans.

Snowflake this snowflake that. But that's your opinion. Rogue can be this or that yes. But can also have some small magical affinity. Doesn't mean he's Great or Good at it, of it he's better at that he's worse at something else. It's all about balance. Doesn't mean all rogue type fellows use magic, it's a rare thing, but then again rogues are versatile can be a lot of things.

When i play rogue i don't feel magical either yeah. But i do feel like there is something, sometimes. One rogue could use tricks and disguises and potions. But another can not be good at those things, but can know a illusion spell. It's how you interprit it. So it rests on your own opinion.