[Public RP-PvP Event] A World of War

Rargnasha wrote:Should the Horde win that battle, then I’d see it as the Horde managing to slip inside of Ironforge and loot/raze/pillage some buildings, possibly the treasury, before eventually being routed/retreat from Ironforge and Dun Morogh.

Now, there’s some split opinions about whether or not the attack on Ironforge should even be taken Icly, as Ironforge can easily shut its gate down and become the toughest stronghold known to Azeroth(?), however, on the Horde side we’re having some RP about how to actually get in inside or how to avoid some of Ironforges ‘ major strengths, since the Horde today is a lot more advanced than it was during the second war.

There is many dwarven rp'ers wondering how you would achieve this? You'd dig a hole straight in to Ironforge from the side, or perhaps from the top? Maybe you'd come through underground tunnels? That has been used before, but I believe it was mostly done by Arathorians. And of course then you'd be risking to have your entire army drowned in lava, where you to come up in the Great forge. And having an army climbing ropes down from the ceiling of one of the many halls of Ironforge, meanwhile facing a bullet storm from frenzied mountaineers, and then you have to go back up the same way? I suppose it sounds unrealistic considering the forces there is at bay in Khaz Modan Alliance side vs. Horde. Bunkers, airstrips, Ironforge, Gnomeregan, armies.

Naturally if the entire Horde had managed to pull their armies there, and then constantly be sending reinforcements and supplies it could stand a chance. Would The Orcs, the Forsaken, the Trolls, the Goblins, the Blood Elves, the Tauren fight side by side though? Putting this focus on Ironforge when the world is looking as it does, could the entire Hordes focus be shifted from all other things, spearheading it self.

Rargnasha wrote:Furthermore, I am quite sure that atleast once on this server (back in TBC), there was a Horde attack on IF which got inside and was considered IC (At least by Horde side).
Whether or not this is acknowledged on Alliance side I do not know..

From the majority of dwarven rp'ers I'v spoken they all seem to follow the simple and logical lore, that Ironforge has never been breached.

Could go with a Trojan horse style though, instead of trying to beat the defenses, circumvent them... Say.

Sneaks in a few rogue's, not many, team of three maybe. They cut around IF get a lay of the land, where the best defensive position would be if they attack on X route, then set traps/ sabotage the area, a loose bit of brickwork, explosives, etc. So when they charge in, every time they try to set up a wall, it falls as soon as they get it up. Using that method you could realistically take a large fortress like IF with minimal troops.

That said how would you play out the "stealth team's" sabotage, how much can you realistically get away with, with out it being noticed, that's a matter of debate I suppose, still just saying the idea of "Taking" Ironforge isn't that far fetched.

Hell they took the Undercity That lifts killed me a few times and the guards aren't trying to kill me when I go in

Rargnasha wrote:A few quick notes which I plan to write a bit more sometime soon*

Whether or not this is acknowledged on Alliance side I do not know, but if Alliance or Horde roleplayers thinks that this would pull their RP too much in a direction that they do not desire, or they quite simply consider it impossible, then I am –completely- fine with them ignoring it. However, I’d still request that they’ll respect those who choose to brew RP on it.

I highly suggest you take this sound advice to heart. Do the PvP event, and then let those who want to roleplay that the Horde have ransacked Ironforge roleplay that, and those who don't, ignore it.

It doesn't have to be more complicated than that. You don't have to come to some sort of agreement on the breachability of a supposed unbreachable thing. It's not going to happen, so I suggest you leave it.

Thelos wrote:You don't have to come to some sort of agreement in the breachability of a supposed unbreachable thing. It's not going to happen, so I suggest you leave it.

Words of wisdom my blue freind

I'm not really supportive of the idea of ransacking cities ICly. Attacking them is one thing, but I wouldn't play for suck high stakes for such little RP.

I'm always charmed by the way victors present their victories so generously as wonderful and unique opportunities for others to play the looser. Oh how wonderful it would be for others to RP being beaten down, the tragedy, the story! The depth of their character explodes beyond measure!
One would almost come to believe they'd have to be grateful for such a generous victor to add depth to one's own character.

How odd... That we so rarely hear such appraisal of the victory from the other side. Perhaps it's not as thrilling and exciting as it's presented? You ransacked our city! The level of creativity takes my breath away!
I can see the background of my character explode with options and ventures never explored before!
Sorry.

I only see this worth of roleplaying out if there's sufficient support from the community to do it. And first and foremost the people most profoundly impacted by it. For me, that means it boils down to TTH and other IF guilds supporting it, or not. Their call.... I'm not RP'ing an IF character, but my character will be impacted severely by it. So they call the shots and I'll play along.

The campaign is doing great and I don't oppose an attack against the city, but to consider it a success in any way would be such a dramatic impact on server lore that you need more than "RP if you want it and don't if you don't want to". If you want this to be supported by the RP community, I also fear it will need more than a bi-weekly event where we, somehow, still muster the effort to get rofl-stomped by OOCers, for show and sport.

Jeanpierre/Ragnilde wrote:I'm always charmed by the way victors present their victories so generously as wonderful and unique opportunities for others to play the looser. Oh how wonderful it would be for others to RP being beaten down, the tragedy, the story! The depth of their character explodes beyond measure!
One would almost come to believe they'd have to be grateful for such a generous victor to add depth to one's own character.

How odd... That we so rarely hear such appraisal of the victory from the other side. Perhaps it's not as thrilling and exciting as it's presented? You ransacked our city! The level of creativity takes my breath away!
I can see the background of my character explode with options and ventures never explored before!

Aww man, you crack me up 10/10 for the rant

But yeah, guess your right blue guy, either ignore it or play along with it, could spin "What if we did this, oh but then this would happen" 's till the cows come home.

Gogol wrote:

Rargnasha wrote:Should the Horde win that battle, then I’d see it as the Horde managing to slip inside of Ironforge and loot/raze/pillage some buildings, possibly the treasury, before eventually being routed/retreat from Ironforge and Dun Morogh.

Now, there’s some split opinions about whether or not the attack on Ironforge should even be taken Icly, as Ironforge can easily shut its gate down and become the toughest stronghold known to Azeroth(?), however, on the Horde side we’re having some RP about how to actually get in inside or how to avoid some of Ironforges ‘ major strengths, since the Horde today is a lot more advanced than it was during the second war.

There is many dwarven rp'ers wondering how you would achieve this? You'd dig a hole straight in to Ironforge from the side, or perhaps from the top? Maybe you'd come through underground tunnels? That has been used before, but I believe it was mostly done by Arathorians. And of course then you'd be risking to have your entire army drowned in lava, where you to come up in the Great forge. And having an army climbing ropes down from the ceiling of one of the many halls of Ironforge, meanwhile facing a bullet storm from frenzied mountaineers, and then you have to go back up the same way? I suppose it sounds unrealistic considering the forces there is at bay in Khaz Modan Alliance side vs. Horde. Bunkers, airstrips, Ironforge, Gnomeregan, armies.

Naturally if the entire Horde had managed to pull their armies there, and then constantly be sending reinforcements and supplies it could stand a chance. Would The Orcs, the Forsaken, the Trolls, the Goblins, the Blood Elves, the Tauren fight side by side though? Putting this focus on Ironforge when the world is looking as it does, could the entire Hordes focus be shifted from all other things, spearheading it self.

Rargnasha wrote:Furthermore, I am quite sure that atleast once on this server (back in TBC), there was a Horde attack on IF which got inside and was considered IC (At least by Horde side).
Whether or not this is acknowledged on Alliance side I do not know..

From the majority of dwarven rp'ers I'v spoken they all seem to follow the simple and logical lore, that Ironforge has never been breached.

Im sorry but i have to Agree with most of what Gogol has said Ironforge has held it's own against the Burning Legion against the Orcs in the second war.....what makes you think you can contend with the Enduring mountain now? Dwarves in the WoW universe are not as greedy as their counterparts either mistrustful of forsaken and ashamed and pity the blood elf traitor no dwarf is gonna be stupid enough to take a mysterious gift from the Horde when they've been runnin like loons all over the place shouting "Lok'tar ogar" you will contend with our steam tank's you will contend with dwarven aircraft and ironforge gryphon riders which yes we do have a few of...then you suffer the wrath of the mountain kings the finest warriors the mountain has to offer if you do break through alongside a hail-fire of dwarven marksmen and mortar teams and then you have forces on the outside to contend with Gnomish steam-rigs and spider tanks and their own aircraft. I positivley do not see it ending well for a Horde force to lay siege to Ironforge it is a well provisioned city..if you've even walked into a dwarf town in this game you will see how prepared the dwarves are for the long bitter war. Then in lore their is actually SEVEN give or take a few levels of Ironforge but for ingame purposes sections were combined into one that would be contended for after you've broken through if you ever do break through the 3-4 dwarf thick gate that is at the front, i assure you those who come to lay harm to the people of the mountain shall not suffer un-punished.

To breach Ironforge, you just need to find a grate and plonk some gunpowder there - Helm's Deep style!

Just knock on the Gate.

When they ask who it is... just say "Its the ale delivery man"

and hey presto, you've conquered Ironforge mountain.

Alasard Tyrian wrote:
Aww man, you crack me up 10/10 for the rant

But yeah, guess your right blue guy, either ignore it or play along with it, could spin "What if we did this, oh but then this would happen" 's till the cows come home.

Well what I mean is that showing up with a bunch of Hordies and attacking a city is hardly "creating an opportunity". This could be RP'd out, but it will need more than a bunch of Orcs in a high resilience loincloth to make it happen. In order to give this the depth it deserves, it certainly needs more planning, structure and a framework in which people can jump in and RP out how, where and if they fought in the defense, got injured, what they did and what not.
On alliance side it should be met with a multiple week event. To organise such, now that's what I would call creating an opportunity, for it allows people to RP out the little details that make the difference between immersion and a /roll on the "you got f***d"-table.

In such a scenario, the PvP event could present itself as a trigger, but hardly the opportunity itself. But such an ambitious plan can only be made to work if the core of the event, the IF guilds, want to RP this out. Otherwise... you'll end up having to shrug off it ever happened because half the people will still shout "we've never been breached". You may seem to avoid the discussion now, only to have a million discussions later.

Right! So there's a few things to discuss/work on for this event.

First there's the Thief Empire have apparently started teaming up with ABoC more and more. After talking with their leader today I've learned that he wishes to bring the guild in a direction that seeks out WPvP at any cost, in co-operation with ABoC. There-for he'll no longer be part of my AWoW team on Horde side.

More to be posted on hopefully soon:

-Which way to bring AWoW

(Post is WIP)

Rargnasha wrote:Right! So there's a few things to discuss/work on for this event.

First there's the Thief Empire have apparently started teaming up with ABoC more and more. After talking with their leader today I've learned that he wishes to bring the guild in a direction that seeks out WPvP at any cost, in co-operation with ABoC. There-for he'll no longer be part of my AWoW team on Horde side.

More to be posted on hopefully soon:

-Which way to bring AWoW

(Post is WIP)

Not sure what to say to this. the part about any cost doesn't sound great :S are they going to turn into more muppets who just gank and out number alliance and corpse camp? All for more wpvp but joining up with ABOC and saying wpvp at any cost just sound like its gonna be a corpse camp on outnumbered under geared ppl to me thats not wpvp thats just boring and weak.

As far as I know, they're going to tag along with ABoC and gank and camp, which makes this guild something Im not going to work together with anymore. In terms of PvP I assume they're going to become ABoCs' 'Side-kick' guild, which makes them pretty much the same in my eyes.

Just an idea, but has AV been given any thought? I mean it's Orcs Vs Dwarves in a snowy landscape, it's a BG (Wargame) so no OOC'ers can gank it or disrupt it (Though it does put a lvl / player limit on things)

I think the main thing that keeps guilds like ABoC coming back (Aside from blizzards altogether useless anti RP griefing measures) Is that there are events they can disrupt, if we started moving more of this into Wargames, then they will get bored and have nothing to do and just move server or quit the game for something else.

But like I said it's just an idea, 'dunno if that setting would even work ICly for AWoW

Would be fun to do a wargame in av as you said yes we would be stuck with 40 v 40 but nothing wrong with that. We could even do the objectives for abit of extra rp break ppl up into squads for difefrnt tasks and if you get the task done run to support another. AMG WE MUST DO IT!

It is better than Alliance being outnumbered in every fight. Av!!

The Three Hammers have decided to take the event IC up to the gates of Ironforge, however anything beyond Ironforge will be considered OOCly. This way we might please both Alliance and Horde side.

Seems reasonable to me.

Gilran wrote:The Three Hammers have decided to take the event IC up to the gates of Ironforge, however anything beyond Ironforge will be considered OOCly. This way we might please both Alliance and Horde side.

I'll agree with this. I'll be there in an IC format anyway.