Re: Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics

[Lyniath]

Now you're thinking with PortalCats

[Muzjhath]

Mirrors are clearly magical. Poor portalcat.

[Amaryl]

I won't drag this out much longer, so I'm going to make a last post, concerning a few inconsistencies in your post, to give Food for thought, so to speak. and for this I will let go the original argument that for the purpose of clarity, Nithel's comment was sufficient on its own, to understand it in its correct context. and even though changing the word equality, makes it less confrontational, doesn't make it statement more clear then the word Nithel chose.

So:

Now that I think about it, you were right that my moaning comes down to semantical bullshit, though I suppose where we disagree is that I find semantical bullshit to be of great importance. Many if not most disagreements I believe can be solved by a more careful choosing of words.

I don't disagree with this principle, but then, you don't apply it yourself:

I did so by argueing that “Are not equal”, rather than seeming insulting, is insulting, objectively and wholly independent of any one's intentions.

I don't find it insulting, so claiming It is insulting, objectively and wholly independent of anyone's own intentions, aren't the best choice of words, but "Seemingly Insulting" would be a better choice, since not everyone is insulted by it, but you can understand if some people are. Which is why I choose it, since I didn't think that Emrys was actually insulted by the words, but could see the cultural tension installed within that term. That does not make it Objectively and wholly indepentant of anyones intentions an Insult.

you cannot claim to know its insulting in with that particular word choice in that specific context unless you feel insulted by it, or someone says it is insulting towards them. Otherwise you can only assume it might be insulting, thus "seemingly Insulting".

Don't generalise opinions on culturaly ambiguous terms. especially not with things like "objectively".

[Eowale]

[Morinth]

Feel like playing some league of legends but I havn't played in over a year or something. Always use to roll with Garen as a tank back in the days, so whats the big changes and the heroes to roll for someone who's just starting again?

SPIN2WIN!

If you're anything like me, don't start out with easy champions... XD I started with easy ones and sucked balls until I bought my first champion who happened to be Anivia. Hard-mode makes me a better player.

I still can't play easies!

[Thelos]

you cannot claim to know its insulting in with that particular word choice in that specific context unless you feel insulted by it, or someone says it is insulting towards them. Otherwise you can only assume it might be insulting, thus "seemingly Insulting".

Ah, well, at last we've come to a radical disagreement. I do not believe the hurtfulness of something to be at all dependant on anyone actually being insulted. Indeed, I can never actually know whether anyone else is actually insulted, especially over the internet, but then again I never claimed that I did. I argued that the hurtful connotations of words are completely independant of both the speaker and the public, but rather dependant on a shared history of the usage of words which is (to a degree) shared.

An implication of that are that a statement can be hurtful or insulting completely independant from the speaker's intentions. I do not need to know whether anyone is actually insulted to call something hurtful. I feel it is somewhat like firing a gun into a dark city night; you have no idea who's out there nor are you aiming at anyone, but it's still a very stupid idea since the odds you'd hit somebody with a stray bullet is always there. That fact alone makes firing a gun out in the dark a bad idea, wholly independant on whether you actually hit somebody.

So it is not that I do not apply the principle, it is more like we have some disagreements on the nature of objectivity and meaning. I always try to chose my words with great scrutinty, but sadly since I am only human I am bound to pick the wrong words from time to time. I do not think I have been inconsistent though. Just different, and perhaps sometimes a little bit extreme in my assumptions about language.

And with that, let me end with a sketch you will no doubt love, considering that running joke you guys have going

[Amaryl]

So chance is suddenly certainty? where is your nuance now?

[Lexgrad]

Holy shit.

[Thelos]

So chance is suddenly certainty? where is your nuance now?

...What? Chance of what? Certainty of what? You lost me.

[Yarnaat]

WTB an internet connection that works.

[Shaelyssa]

WTB an internet connection that isn't powered by camels in a giant hamster wheel

[Lyniath]

Wtb a goat that makes silk. Gene splicing FTW. Just saw goat silk on tv.

[Morinth]

WTB an internet connection that isn't powered by camels in a giant hamster wheel

I've been saying this all along, but no one believes me.

[Jeanpierre]

It's hard to keep up with the spam of this thread, so I'll just pick a few notes to make a point.
You speak of equality of gender, and... well.. basically everyone thinks about "equal rights for women". Fighting for equal rights between genders is even called Feminism.

Although I would call myself a feminist, I'm also a strong supporter of the new movement for equal rights for men. Yup, that's right. Men..

The very fact this may come across as absurd to some ears is very much a part of the need of this movement. Men are seen as "impossible to be victim of a situation", unless it's some overly brutal thing. Men are being indoctrinated, misunderstood and victimized by society just as much as women.
The only difference is we were 'in power' for so long.

Allow me to go over a few points.

Whatever gender one is, there are going to be abusive situations and unhealthy relationships - yes, these may take different forms and women are often the easier victims

Generally, in domestic violence, children are the easiest victims. A study in the Netherlands also showed that, in case of children being abused, there little difference in the gender of the molester. That's right: barely a difference. And as a shocker: 14% of the times will it be the father, and 36% of the times will it be the mother. Similar research in the USA showed that far over half the time the molester will be the mother. (The researchers attribute this difference to mothers being more involved and consumed by the care for their children)

There is research indicating that children which are victim of domestic violence have a higher tendency to inflict domestic violence as they grow up. I don't know about you, but to me, it gives a bit of a different perspective on the "source" and "cause" of domestic violence.
And yet, if we would speak of a "child molester" or a "parent beating up the kids", 99% of the people would, by default, consider the aggressor male. There is no statistic supporting this.

It's purely a role type: holy mother, sacred baby. "No mother would hurt their child" "Save the innocent women and children!" Symbols and images embedded in our society which, indirectly, "clear" women of suspect in aggression.
Aggression is considered a male thing. Funny.. In simple conflicts, women are proven equally aggressive.

I'll give a few examples:
A woman gets paid maternity leave when a man doesn't in Belgium. These are different rights in a different situation. (A man doesn't give birth.) And thus they are acceptable.

Negative. I find it a bad thing to have a difference here. First of all... Despite the fact that the maternity leave in Belgium is largely funded by the government , it still impacts a woman's job more than a man's. As a result, men may get the job easier. Or.. "Less questions are asked". My wife is applying for new jobs. She gets a whole different set of questions regarding family life compared to me, simply because of this.

Secondly.. It's true, women give birth. So you consider it a smart and logical thing to send the men away, just when their wives need the best support and help they can get? Do you really believe women would rather chit chat about how they feel and the lovely event of her child being born with a 50y old nurse she never saw before, instead of her husband?
When my wife gave birth, despite a fluent recovery, I found it a full time job to supporting her, the baby and managing the visitors and paper work. How long did that job take? Just as long as my wife needed time to recover.

There is no doubt that women bear the bigger burden, but that doesn't mean men should be displaced to "ohh.. just go do your job and leave it to the woman.. 'you didn't do shit after all'".
Because that mindset brings us to the third problem with this inequity: How the fuck can you take the role of men in the raising of children seriously, if from they very first days of their children being born, you send them away to go work instead of doing what the hell they should be doing? Namely standing by their wife and child and work hard to help that kid make its first steps in life.

The role of men in this part of their children's life is nearly ridiculed. We got overloaded with flyers and info booklets. Every once in a while, you could find a depiction of a man involved in supporting his wife. Other than that, it's an all woman show. Well I'm sorry.. but there's 2 people becoming parent that day. For every reason you can think that a woman deserves delivers more effort in labour than a man (which I'll probably agree to 100%), I see that very same argument as another reason to have their life partner by their side!

When a nurse barged into my wife's recovery room to explain 'baby stuff' , I had to stop them in their explanation. "Sorry, you're going to have to repeat that, -I- didn't hear you so well." "Can you show it again, to me?"
After 2 days they got the message. They were surprised. Men actually have to step in, and make a lot of noise, to be taken into account. And sure, I'll understand if you claim that many men aren't all that involved with their children but isn't that all the more reason to raise awareness here? Then surely, you can't wish your message to be "get involved!! ... but go to your job and leave it the women... "

If find it absurd that a general complaint is that men are less involved with their families, when the very first discrimination against them from society is sending right back to their jobs when their children are born.

A man who gets a job easier in construction because male body types are generally better suited for heavy work. Different rights, different situation. Thus acceptable.

I don't quite follow this logic. What exactly is "getting easier into the job"?
If a person, regardless of what gender, is capable of doing the job then by all means they should be considered viable for the job, regardless of what gender. If those job requirements are easier to fulfill for one gender, then good for them. But in the end that doesn't make a difference.

It's like saying "men are 'generally' stronger than women". *shrug* Doesn't matter jack shit to me. That statement won't tell me if I'm stronger than 20%, 50% or 80% of the women. Nor does that statement really apply to the individual. I've seen women that are stronger than me. I've seen men weaker than many women I know. In the end, when comparing two individuals... this statistical statement looses all value.

Perhaps fewer women will want to invest the effort required to build up their physique for jobs in construction yards, but that has to be a choice left to them. Not to us, not to the employer. If they have the physique, then why wouldn't we consider them equal?

Anyway, yeah. Some of feminism is about bridging the divide in society and social structure. Whilst some feminists push for stronger women in every regard. Radical feminism almost. That isn’t “about” equality. Nor is it about saying “women are better than men”. It’s more about saying they are different. Let’s celebrate the difference. And well, lets be radical, we need to be radical, we need to get angry to fix this shit!

Generally my experience is that there is a little bit of both (the moderate and radical) types of feminism in each feminist. Me included. I like the moderate type, because they are easier to agree with. But I'm generally more amused by the edge the more radical type brings

[Lavian]

Feel like playing some league of legends but I havn't played in over a year or something. Always use to roll with Garen as a tank back in the days, so whats the big changes and the heroes to roll for someone who's just starting again?

SPIN2WIN!

If you're anything like me, don't start out with easy champions... XD I started with easy ones and sucked balls until I bought my first champion who happened to be Anivia. Hard-mode makes me a better player.

I still can't play easies!

Anivia is the wannabe right?

I just don't know what champion I would stick with really. I'm guessing Garen's playstyle has changed since a year ago and I usually tend to stick with one or two champions at most.

[Rmuffn]

Spin-to-win all the way.

He's barely getting nerfed or buffed. There's a site to read about the champs though...

Leagueoflegends.com much easier. ;p

[Morinth]

Feel like playing some league of legends but I havn't played in over a year or something. Always use to roll with Garen as a tank back in the days, so whats the big changes and the heroes to roll for someone who's just starting again?

SPIN2WIN!

If you're anything like me, don't start out with easy champions... XD I started with easy ones and sucked balls until I bought my first champion who happened to be Anivia. Hard-mode makes me a better player.

I still can't play easies!

Anivia is the wannabe right?

I just don't know what champion I would stick with really. I'm guessing Garen's playstyle has changed since a year ago and I usually tend to stick with one or two champions at most.

My Anivia looks more like a mechanical bird with jet boosters in place of tail feathers. Hextech. <3

[Lavian]

Lost it.

[Muzjhath]

Maybe not what this thread right now is about. But I feel it holds an important message. Watch.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/stand-together-the-gaming-community-vs-sopa-and-pipa

[Thelos]

Yeah, I'm not American citizen, though. I dont exactly have a congressman or a senator to represent me, so my opinion is pretty much just that; an opinion, not an actual democratic resistance with actual political force behind it.

It's up to the Americans, man.

[Muzjhath]

You can still affect the bills. More so when they will have an international effect on the internet.

[Baròth / Olian]

^ SOPA and PIPA in a nutshell.

[Eowale]

Spin-to-win all the way.
He's barely getting nerfed or buffed.

He got buffed a few months ago. Normal run speed was increased. Because he TOTALLY needed that speed increase, not like he wasn't fast enough with his Q up and Ghost, and Boots of Swiftness. >_>

Spoiler:

[Shaelyssa]

OH MY GOD THEY'VE TAKEN DOWN WIKIPEDIA

WTF IS THIS STUPID PIPA POOPf WHATEVER SHIT?!!!!

[Muzjhath]

They are simulating what SOPA and PIPA could do to the internet. For awareness. =P

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