Re: N Korean leader Kim Jong-il dies

by **Saevir** Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:49 pm

Antistia wrote:
Sanara wrote:Here come the nukes, brilje.

I know we're supposed to believe in Korean reunification, but I'm still thinking the... Very certain People's Republic which shall go unnamed in this post may have something to say about that. With mnogo nukes.

China is interested in one thing, and one thing only: Stability. What use North Korea had as a buffer state is practically gone. Now they're very much just providing a reason for South Korea to have a big military and for the United States to have more troops there. Does this mean China will allow Korean unification? Nope, because there's a huge chance that's not going to go peaceful and is going to bring streams of refugees into China, something which they don't want.

Anyway, that's my semi-educated view of it.

Very true. Previous leaks of diplomatic cables pretty much confirm that all China wants is to make sure that US troops don't end up in current NK territory, and that they don't get stuck with a few million NK refugees to care for. The latter is looking increasingly likely, the way things are going, so China just might push for reunification under SK leadership if they get assurance that SK will foot the bill for lifting NK out of starvation and will bar the US from setting up camp next to the Chinese border.

by **Antistia** Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:00 pm

Saevir wrote:
Antistia wrote:
Sanara wrote:Here come the nukes, brilje.

I know we're supposed to believe in Korean reunification, but I'm still thinking the... Very certain People's Republic which shall go unnamed in this post may have something to say about that. With mnogo nukes.

China is interested in one thing, and one thing only: Stability. What use North Korea had as a buffer state is practically gone. Now they're very much just providing a reason for South Korea to have a big military and for the United States to have more troops there. Does this mean China will allow Korean unification? Nope, because there's a huge chance that's not going to go peaceful and is going to bring streams of refugees into China, something which they don't want.

Anyway, that's my semi-educated view of it.

Very true. Previous leaks of diplomatic cables pretty much confirm that all China wants is to make sure that US troops don't end up in current NK territory, and that they don't get stuck with a few million NK refugees to care for. The latter is looking increasingly likely, the way things are going, so China just might push for reunification under SK leadership if they get assurance that SK will foot the bill for lifting NK out of starvation and will bar the US from setting up camp next to the Chinese border.

Now why SK would do that is beyond me. There's so little for them to gain. It's going to be a black hole they'll be throwing money into. Maybe some very pissed off rebels trying to sabotage them etc. On the other hand you have NK threatening them but full scale war is not likely to happen. The prime directive of that regime seems to be "Stay in power, whatever it takes."

by **Xen-tau** Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:03 pm

Eowale wrote:
Antistia wrote:

This is their policy of "Cry or get shot."

Well, these people can actually weep over the loss of their leader. After all, they only hear the great stories of their leader whose birth "came with two rainbows" and... something about a seamonster which is not quite clear to me...

by **Saevir** Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:07 pm

Antistia wrote:
Saevir wrote:
Antistia wrote:
Sanara wrote:Here come the nukes, brilje.

I know we're supposed to believe in Korean reunification, but I'm still thinking the... Very certain People's Republic which shall go unnamed in this post may have something to say about that. With mnogo nukes.

China is interested in one thing, and one thing only: Stability. What use North Korea had as a buffer state is practically gone. Now they're very much just providing a reason for South Korea to have a big military and for the United States to have more troops there. Does this mean China will allow Korean unification? Nope, because there's a huge chance that's not going to go peaceful and is going to bring streams of refugees into China, something which they don't want.

Anyway, that's my semi-educated view of it.

Very true. Previous leaks of diplomatic cables pretty much confirm that all China wants is to make sure that US troops don't end up in current NK territory, and that they don't get stuck with a few million NK refugees to care for. The latter is looking increasingly likely, the way things are going, so China just might push for reunification under SK leadership if they get assurance that SK will foot the bill for lifting NK out of starvation and will bar the US from setting up camp next to the Chinese border.

Now why SK would do that is beyond me. There's so little for them to gain. It's going to be a black hole they'll be throwing money into. Maybe some very pissed off rebels trying to sabotage them etc. On the other hand you have NK threatening them but full scale war is not likely to happen. The prime directive of that regime seems to be "Stay in power, whatever it takes."

Unofficially, SK isn't too eager for reunification either, yeah. If it's going to happen, it will either be after most of the NK population has died off, or funded jointly between SK/China/Charities if it gets to a point where they think it will be more expensive to just be neighbors to the tragedy

by **Geldar** Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:16 pm

The crying seems so fake, hopefully now with him out of the way there will be peace and other good things, a turning point for NK's people if things go right, but we will have to wait and see for a few months, give it or take it 5-6.

PS: There is a really nice clip on RussiaToday's channel on youtube with a political expert explaining the ways things can go to now. The geist of it are 3 options; Peace, isolation, complete chaos over the vacuum of power KJ's death may make due to his son being inexperienced. To me it seems like option 2-3 are the most likely ones, stage is being set for December 2012!

Also, mind you. If things go south, keep one thing in mind. NK has a really heavy military industrial complex with all of its or atleast most of its resources going for the military, they have the 5th largest military force in the world with over a million soldiers and four million reserves.

by **Antistia** Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:35 pm

PS: There is a really nice clip on RussiaToday's channel on youtube with a political expert explaining the ways things can go to now. The geist of it are 3 options; Peace, isolation, complete chaos over the vacuum of power KJ's death may make due to his son being inexperienced. To me it seems like option 2-3 are the most likely ones, stage is being set for December 2012!

Also, mind you. If things go south, keep one thing in mind. NK has a really heavy military industrial complex with all of its or atleast most of its resources going for the military, they have the 5th largest military force in the world with over a million soldiers and four million reserves.

RT.. Ugh.

Most likely it's going to be isolation. There's not going to be chaos I think. Ol' KJ put his sister and her husband in extremely important positions before he even put Kim Jong Fatty into an important position if I recall correctly. Maybe a power struggle with aunt, uncle on one side and an ambitious general (or group of generals) on the other side with Fatty being the puppet caught in the middle (for the time being at least)

As for NK's military industrial complex, yeah, they're quite a strong nation. The problem is that their technology is no match for the South and its allies. In the end North Korea would be obliterated but not before Seoul is a smoldering pile of rubble. That is a hefty price.

by **itsy** Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:40 pm

So I guess Kim Jong was ill???

by **Kozgugore Feraleye** Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:01 pm

Itsy wrote:So I guess Kim Jong was ill???

N Korean leader Kim Jong-il dies - Page 2 1301583366901

by **Geldar** Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:04 pm

Meanwhile in S. Korea.

N Korean leader Kim Jong-il dies - Page 2 Advanced_City

I also saw a joke that this was an early Christmas present for the NK people.

by **Rasonal Dranger** Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:11 pm

Geldar wrote:
I also saw a joke that this was an early Christmas present for the NK people.

An old women sruggled to get into a crowded buss, and after finally managing, she said:
"Thanks god!"
The Driver was quick to correct her, "Lady, now we say 'Thanks Stalin', not thanks god."
The lady thanked the driver for correcting her, and after some thinking she said:
"Excuse me, but I am old and I may not truely understand- but what happens if stalin dies, what shall we say then?"
"Ah, my lady, then we shall say 'Thanks god'"

by **Eowale** Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:09 am

Aishling wrote:
Eowale wrote:
Antistia wrote:

This is their policy of "Cry or get shot."

Well, these people can actually weep over the loss of their leader. After all, they only hear the great stories of their leader whose birth "came with two rainbows" and... something about a seamonster which is not quite clear to me...

Double rainbow all the way delivered by C'thulu. A constantly tripping leader brought to this world by the monster that causes human anxiety. GG.

by **Morinth** Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:51 am

I never payed much attention to these guys. I always lol'd when my team (South Korea) beat them in the World Cup. Very Happy

Yes, I'm an SK fan... Sucked to be NK players though, I hear they were all politicians or something, hand picked to play. And when they did bad, they were sent to work in the mines or whatnot, and players who did well were bribed with fancy apartments and shit.

by **Antistia** Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:39 am

PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) — North Korea says a fierce snowstorm paused and the sky began glowing red above sacred Mount Paektu just minutes before leader Kim Jong Il's death.
State media say the ice on volcanic Lake Chon at the mountain in the far north cracked with a load roar.
And in the city of Hamhung, a Manchurian crane circled a statue of Kim's father, late President Kim Il Sung, before alighting on a tree, its head drooping before it took off toward Pyongyang.
State media say Kim died Saturday morning at age 69. His death was announced two days later.
Similar myths and legends also surround Kim Jong Il's birth on Mount Paektu. Official biographies say he was born on Paektu and that a double rainbow filled the skies when he was born.

I consider this propaganda NKorea is spewing to be extremely believable.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:49 am

Antistia wrote:
PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) — North Korea says a fierce snowstorm paused and the sky began glowing red above sacred Mount Paektu just minutes before leader Kim Jong Il's death.
State media say the ice on volcanic Lake Chon at the mountain in the far north cracked with a load roar.
And in the city of Hamhung, a Manchurian crane circled a statue of Kim's father, late President Kim Il Sung, before alighting on a tree, its head drooping before it took off toward Pyongyang.
State media say Kim died Saturday morning at age 69. His death was announced two days later.
Similar myths and legends also surround Kim Jong Il's birth on Mount Paektu. Official biographies say he was born on Paektu and that a double rainbow filled the skies when he was born.

I consider this propaganda NKorea is spewing to be extremely believable.

If this had been written 2000 years ago and if people had continued telling about that and a glorious leader, it would quite possible have ended up in a multinational religion.

by **Antistia** Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:55 am

Oh. My. God.

Kris, I think you just discovered their masterplan.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:19 pm

Euh, Atheist League Assemble?

by **Amaryl** Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:19 pm

The inventor of the Hamburger is dead, i would cry aswell.

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