Event idea: 'The Anethionean dominion'

Mind you, if anyone is to sack Fortesgue for anything would probably be the SI:7. Take Fortesgue out in the middle of the night to a undisclosed location and call in a indefinite sick leave to mask it up!

As much as i loathe Jarric having any sort of power over my character at all (teehee) thats a good point, however Geldars point still stands Lex, you would have to convince the other councillors IC of Forts failing to deal with this and have me removed through all of you.

Either that or i resign, or am simply to busy to do anything council related, and the chapter just quite literally step in ignoring all protocol IC.

Well leave it to RP I say, Jarric will try to get you into some kind of inquiry and we can take it from there.

Amaryl wrote:I will enjoy having Amy fight you chapterians, to make sure Fort isn't being dragged into the cathedral

I know the topic is about the Chapter's taking a brief control of the church but...

That sentence just feels so off.

"THE BISHOP MUSTN'T BE IN THE CATHEDRAL!"

So we can set a vague starting point for this, proposed of course, as late January? Giving everyone enough time to get over the holiday festivities and events that would lead up to this can take place.

January sounds good, by then we can actually also see how many people we would have considering ToR is coming and everything.

Aren't you off to ToR geldar? O.o

Nope? I might try it at some point, but I am not really going off for it xD

O ok.

I always assumed the way that the Council appoints its members to be, at least partially, OOC. Surely the King has the final decision, IC, and the applications process is purely to determine who the Council advises the King would be a suitable candidate. When it comes to appointing ministers when there is a vacancy, the King probably has little reason to go against the advice of the Council, but when it comes to removing a councillor because of Church infighting he might have an entirely different view. He might, for instance, decide that it is not appropriate for him to show any preference until the matter is resolved, and thus choose to take no action and leave Fortesgue in place. Alternatively, he might decide to remove religious representation from the Council temporarily and suspend the post of Minister of Faith until the conflict is resolved. I would say that the least likely course of action would be to appoint a Minister from the Chapter while the situation is ongoing. It is also highly likely that anyone trying to replace leadership of any organisation in Stormwind by force is going to find himself on the wrong side of the King.

On another point, the Chapter is known to conduct religious services at the Cathedral, serves in the Holy Brigade and makes its headquarters at Northshire Abbey, a location associated with the establishment. It seems likely to me that the general populace would consider the Chapter as part of the established Church and thus wouldn't be particularly inclined to turn to them in the times of trouble any more than any other Order. The beneficiaries of any unrest are more likely to be the cultists.

The Chapter isn't though. It was given permission by the Church of the Holy Light to be based within Northshire Abbey along with the Northshire Brigade (which no longer exists). The general populace have never considered the Chapter as a part of the Church of the Holy Light due to our preachings. As the plan stands, we're not using force but IC logic to claim the Minister of Faith badge. Abandoning the post altogether sounds like a ludicrous idea. Who would the public turn to in this darkest of times? Of course they wouldn't 'turn off' religion in Stormwind until this blows over.

I vote Fort as new Archbishop, the hell with Benjy going all rogue

That is indeed something that can be discussed. I think it sounds like a fine idea. Reinstating the Church back into power after the Chapter mops up and is rebelled against, Fortesgue becomes the new Archbishop!

i have to raise this point but...

to control the city, the chapter would first need a majority force to enforce control, AND a political majority...

they currently form a minority nuisance and hold no political majority as nobody likes them...

Excellent event idea, but, er, floors.

Seiken wrote:they currently form a minority nuisance and hold no political majority as nobody likes them...

Bias?

You are jumping way ahead Seiken. Anethioneanism is the only other Light based religeon that is not influenced by the Church of the Holy Light within Stormwind that is widely accepted. As the order has clearly been compromised (The Archbishop being the leader of the Twilight cult that brought near-destruction upon Azeroth and the pawn of an Old-God), riots and civil unrest will spread once word has hit the common folk. To maintain order and a shred of faith within the populace Fortesgue will be asked to step down from the Minister of Faith duties. From there the only logical person would be Vicar Osmand Lightguard. Nobody said anything about enforcing control to gain this. It is merely a flow of events that we are all, as a community, discussing and shaping. Controlling a city is a big statement, this is merely mopping up the mess, keeping the populace faithful during this time and giving a green card for the Inquisition to investigate the matters of Cultism within the upper-sect of the Church.

Anethioneanism isn't "widely accepted", that's the problem. ICly the city of Stormwind is huge - thousands of people live there, and nearly all of them are at least nominally followers of the Light, even if they only pay it lip service

Itsy wrote:ICly the city of Stormwind is huge - thousands of people live there, and nearly all of them are at least nominally followers of the Light, even if they only pay it lip service

Indeed, which is why Benedictus' treachery should be regarded as a major crisis and the Chapter have came up with this event/plot to portray what happens next.

On a side note - Our roleplay forecast team tells us to expect many riots, civil unrest, attacks on Church leaders and worse in the coming month. Happy Winters Veil!

My point was you don't have enough people to ICly make seizing control of the city feasible, really! Especially since I highly doubt Varian would approve. By all means, more RP is great, but I think it would make much more sense for this to be more along the lines of Anethonians stepping up their recruitment, intensifying witch hunts and whatnot.

We're not seizing control over the Kingdom, or claiming we're going to though. Certain people should carefully read the main post before voicing their opinions.

Stage 1 is essentially what instigates the Anethionean rise to power. The Church cannot deny the truth any longer and are forced to make public that the leader of the Church, Benedictus, has betrayed all what the Light stands for. Rioters fill the streets, filled with rage that their church father has forsaken them. The Cathedral is looted, priests are assaulted – essentially the entire city goes mad.

The Chapter of Holy Anethion seizes the opportunity to lobby for influence in the city, with amongst others the House of Nobles. During the uprisings, the followers of the Chapter barge in on the Council meeting and demand that Bishop Fortesgue gives up his seat and office, and that the vicar of the Chapter is instated as new Minister of Faith to purge the Church and City of corruption.

The Minister of Faith does not control the Kingdom.

Aldric Essalus Helmfrid wrote:You are jumping way ahead Seiken. Anethioneanism is the only other Light based religeon that is not influenced by the Church of the Holy Light within Stormwind that is widely accepted. As the order has clearly been compromised (The Archbishop being the leader of the Twilight cult that brought near-destruction upon Azeroth and the pawn of an Old-God), riots and civil unrest will spread once word has hit the common folk. To maintain order and a shred of faith within the populace Fortesgue will be asked to step down from the Minister of Faith duties. From there the only logical person would be Vicar Osmand Lightguard. Nobody said anything about enforcing control to gain this. It is merely a flow of events that we are all, as a community, discussing and shaping. Controlling a city is a big statement, this is merely mopping up the mess, keeping the populace faithful during this time and giving a green card for the Inquisition to investigate the matters of Cultism within the upper-sect of the Church.

This is what makes sense for me icly yes. Also promise me that you will try to convert people to Anethioneanism . The guild concept itself is awesome and deserves more out-of-guild believers. People turning into Anethioneanism would even make sense since the already believers seek a better foundation to their faith, shaked due of the events, encouraging the chapter to get the non-believer citizen into Anethioneanism. Im looking forward on this on Skarain. She knows divine forces like light exists but (from her perspective) light have never helped her, so why to trust & worship and get nothing in turn? She would need to be threatend in some way to even consider. Saying that non-believers are cultists and witches -could- scare her so she will listen the preaching, as her life would be at stake if her use of magic ever came to light. Its entirely open and a result of IC if you manage get her actually believe and how deep her faith would be.

Also if this thing (which i hope) comes alive make sure you are a thorn at the back of the Blades. By driving something like this: "Every person is free to decide their religion, do they believe in the light or in other force deemed -good-. However denying religion in a city of light is not acceptable and the word of light should be allowed to preach everywhere, as long as it isn't forced." (of course the chapter would put a -little- pressure on this, but still not crossing the law) .

The main idea in this is to pressure Blades to change Pig & Whistle bar rules to remove the rule:
1.) No Religious preaching.
and...
Banned from the bar: Members of The Chapter of Holy Anethion.

With the support of kingdom and the council this would forcing the blades to accept this and swallow their bitterness when not being able to do anything about it. If they wish to remain in stormwind.

Aldric Essalus Helmfrid wrote: (1) Anethioneanism is the only other Light based religeon that is not influenced by the Church of the Holy Light within Stormwind that is widely accepted. As the order has clearly been compromised (The Archbishop being the leader of the Twilight cult that brought near-destruction upon Azeroth and the pawn of an Old-God), (2)riots and civil unrest will spread once word has hit the common folk. (3)To maintain order and a shred of faith within the populace Fortesgue will be asked to step down from the Minister of Faith duties. From there the only logical person would be Vicar Osmand Lightguard. Nobody said anything about enforcing control to gain this. It is merely a flow of events that we are all, as a community, discussing and shaping. Controlling a city is a big statement, this is merely mopping up the mess, keeping the populace faithful during this time and giving a green card for the Inquisition to investigate the matters of Cultism within the upper-sect of the Church.

While I love this event and the possible roleplay that can come from it, I do want to point out some small problems I have with this reasoning. Point (1) is highly contestable. From what I've seen around Stormwind, the vast majority of roleplayers only harbor ill will to the Chapter and consider them dangerous. To make a claim that they are supposedly widely accepted by the voiceless NPC mob is a bit of a stretch. I always get uneasy when roleplayers speak on behalf of NPCs that have no voice of their own. That is my problem with (2) also. If there is to be any unrest, it should come from the players, and not from the voiceless mobs. For this to work, we will want to see actual uprising and uprest. You will need the support of some if not the majority of citizen-roleplayers around Stormwind, or at least a hefty mob of players willing to riot to make this all seem plausible. To give the voiceless a voice, so to speak. In order for (3) to seem plausible, I insist that the Church of the Holy Light is made out to be the bad guys not by the majority or at least the loudest of the roleplaying community around Stormwind. Depending on something ethereal as the support of a voiceless mobs of NPCs does not sit well with me.

So yeah, just my thoughts on the logic of things, hope it helps!

I foresee Ishap having to do this




Guerilla fighting in Stormwind in various disguises

Oh, it hadn't clicked before that you are planning to put ex-Disciple Osmand in the top spot.

Once news of the Archbishop's betrayal becomes common knowledge, it's not a foregone conclusion that this will result in an uprising against the Church of the Holy Light. There are four possibilities.

1. The people assume that there is a rational explanation, such as the whole thing being some kind of ruse by the Archbishop, or he is the victim of some kind of possession.

2. The people understand that it is the Archbishop as an individual who has betrayed them, and not the Church as a whole.

3. The people believe that the Church of Light has betrayed them and turns to other Light-based Orders. This may or may not be the Chapter depending on perceptions as to what Orders are considered sufficiently independent of the Cathedral. It's possible that they might turn to Fortesgue for leadership as he is independent of the the Bishop at the Cathedral, or to JP who works with the Cathedral but is not a member of Cathedral staff.

4. They may blame the Light in general and look for new religions such as the Titans or Elune.

It's not likely to be black and white, with different numbers of people falling into all of these categories. The faction that becomes dominant is likely to be influenced by the actions of the Church once the news breaks, as well as any other perceived failings in the Church.

Someone previously likened the situation to the hypothetical scenario of the Pope being revealed to be a paedophile. However, there is a significant difference in that case. If the Pope were to be revealed as being a paedophile, he would be associated with a problem that is already considered widespread throughout the Catholic Church. That's entirely different from a revelation that is specific to the Pope.