Re: Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics

by **Seranita** Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:40 pm

That's fucked up!! Tons have nightmares all week Sad

Ps good luck with your peers lyn

by **Eowale** Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:47 pm

Lyniath wrote:I came out in Facebook. Nervously awaiting my school peers reactions.

Good for you! Hopefully, no-one is too mean. A friend of mine came out a few months back, I supported him of course. But, there were many who were quite rude. Both me and the friend had considered them to be our 'friends'. Bastards.

by **Rmuffn** Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:10 pm

Eowale wrote:
Lyniath wrote:I came out in Facebook. Nervously awaiting my school peers reactions.
Good for you! Hopefully, no-one is too mean. A friend of mine came out a few months back, I supported him of course. But, there were many who were quite rude. Both me and the friend had considered them to be our 'friends'. Bastards.

You expected anything else from human youths?

by **Eowale** Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:11 pm

Faralan wrote:
You expected anything else from human youths?

Not really, nope.

by **Lyniath** Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:14 pm

I got positive response from a guy I rarely speak to :3

by Guest Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:48 pm

Awesome :> Let's hope it continues that way!

by **Nithel** Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:01 pm

CORLETH

who is in your avatar. It's kept me wondering today.

She looks a bit like kate bush so i'll go with that.

by **corleth** Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:03 pm

it is kate bush I love you

*swoon*

by Guest Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:28 pm

Playing online games as a grown-up:

Spoiler:

Yep, it's totally like that!

by **Tso/Feloreth** Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:14 pm

I liked Corleth's last avatar better...

...Kind of...

Also, good luck, Lil'!

by **corleth** Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:24 pm

i always feel bad changing the puking play-dough lady but, it was time...

she'll be back some day, she always comes back. Twisted Evil

by **Lyniath** Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:54 pm

I'm so happy!

by **Nithel** Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:59 am

Corleth wrote:it is kate bush *swoon*

is it wrong that i think she looks incredibly awesome and stylish Sad

by **Eowale** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:00 am

Today on the English C class, we had a discussion about gay-marriges and why they are not allowed in most of the states in the US. I, of course, stood for gay-marriges. I think about half of the class wanted to say "No" to gay-marriges but they didn't have the balls to.

We also watched this clip after the discussion was finished;

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:03 am

Eowale wrote:Today on the English C class, we had a discussion about gay-marriges and why they are not allowed in most of the states in the US. I, of course, stood for gay-marriges. I think about half of the class wanted to say "No" to gay-marriges but they didn't have the balls to.

We also watched this clip after the discussion was finished;

Where there any arguments against? If so, where any of them non-religious?

by **Mandui** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:05 am

The most popular non-religious argument against gay marriages is that such couples can offer no offspring, which renders them practically useless.

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:24 am

Mandui wrote:The most popular non-religious argument against gay marriages is that such couples can offer no offspring, which renders them practically useless.

Wich practicaly means the same as "You are sterile, you can't have offspring, so you ar practically useless". That is a pretty shitty argument.

by **Eowale** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:26 am

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:Where there any arguments against? If so, where any of them non-religious?

There were a few. Mainly that the Americans are often highly conservative and that they have something called "DOMA". The "DOMA" is the Defense of Marrige Act. A United States federal law where the federal government defines marriage as a legal union between one man and one woman. However, just a few months ago, President Obama said that the goverment will no longer support the DOMA.

Imo, homosexuality is an individual thing and something any man/woman cannot control. Marrige, from my point of view, is a bondage to show the eternal love between two humans, whatever their sexuality is. If a man wants to marry another man because they love eachother, why not? There's no real reason why they should not be allowed to do such, the only problem is people having trouble accepting it. And, of course, religion is in the way. There's another topic for Religion, so I wont go in on it.

Mandui wrote:The most popular non-religious argument against gay marriages is that such couples can offer no offspring, which renders them practically useless.

Untrue, lesbians can artificialy get pregnant and males can ask a female to take their seed and help them. And, there's always adoption.

by **Mandui** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:28 am

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:
Mandui wrote:The most popular non-religious argument against gay marriages is that such couples can offer no offspring, which renders them practically useless.
Wich practicaly means the same as "You are sterile, you can't have offspring, so you ar practically useless". That is a pretty shitty argument.

Well, the problem with that is that heterosexual couples can still adopt and raise children in a much more "socially acceptable" environment, despite being unable to have them on their own. Again, this is what I have taken from several discussions I had about this topic with people of various beliefs throughout the years. The "romantics" base the whole notion of getting married on wanting to be with the one you love.

Eowale wrote:
Mandui wrote:The most popular non-religious argument against gay marriages is that such couples can offer no offspring, which renders them practically useless.
Untrue, lesbians can artificialy get pregnant and males can ask a female to take their seed and help them. And, there's always adoption.

I should have said homosexual marriages, and not gay. Yes, adoption is indeed an option, although like mentioned, not many people see it as the ideal family environment to raise a kid in. So that rather reinforces the argument of being useless, by adding one of being counter productive/harmful in case such couples do decide to bring up a child.

by **Thelos** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:33 am

The whole idea that birthing children is somehow supposed to be the primary function of marriage is outdated in general and has been mostly replaced by the romantic ideal, (true love and your other half and whatnot) which is not limited by gender, and anyone who argues against that is wholly insensetive to the reality of the lovelifes and feelings of millions. You should not want to vindicate same sex marriages by argueing that they are still capable of raising children; you will never be able to argue that they can do so as efficiently as samesex couples (as we currently understand them). Nor should you want to. What you should be doing is reject the notion that marriage should be about producing/raising children. I wont be suprised if in a few ages we will look back at the idea that marriages have to be between opposing genders at the same way we now frown at arranged and political marriages as being somehow being "Less true of a marriage". The ideal and concept of marriage changes along with culture.

by **Mandui** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:39 am

Thelos wrote:The whole idea that birthing children is somehow supposed to be the primary function of marriage is outdated in general and has been mostly replaced by the romantic ideal, (true love and your other half and whatnot) which is not limited by gender. I wont be suprised if in a few ages we will look back at the idea that marriages have to be between opposing genders at the same way we now frown at arranged and political marriages as being somehow being "Less true of a marriage". The ideal and concept of marriage changes along with culture.

Indeed, but old fashioned people won't be able to accept this romantic perspective, let alone religious people Razz

As far as I'm concerned people are free to marry whoever they please, since I do lean towards the romantic side.

by **Eowale** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:42 am

Thelos wrote:
Spoiler:

Very true. If you look at culture in the middle-east, hardly any homosexual marriges are made. Compared to most other parts of the world, Europe is quite acceptant and able to bend to diffrent views of culture. I personally don't judge anyone for their gender/sexuality/religion or colour for that matter. I judge by their actions and attitude.
I bet a homosexual couple can raise children just as good as a straight couple can. A friend of mine is gay, and he was raised by a straight couple. Marrige is a private and personal thing, as is sexuality. Why should anyone bother to try to change them when it's quite impossible? I don't see any reason.

by **Thelos** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:45 am

Actually I think the Romantic ideal has been very strongly integrated in western culture by now, though there are of course always going to be conservaties. Just look at the average public reaction to the institution of arranged marriage. I'd say most are least uneasy with it and feel it doesn't do marriage justice. I feel this ideal is somehow in conflict with the more traditional belief that marriage is chiefly an instrumental tool to solidify political power amongst the elite and secure family fortune amongst the common man.

That is why I do not think (true) believers in the romantic idela can justify their marriage by appealing to traditional notions, like how marriage fosters families. The whole line of argument that includes things like "Samesex marriages can still adopt and raise children" is in the end I think a dead end. Instead you should be trying to vindicate the romantic ideal.

Those are just my two cents about the matter I suppose, though is a young lad I of course know very little of marital matters!

by **Thelos** Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:51 am

Eowale wrote:Marrige is a private and personal thing

This is not at all obvious, though, considering the communal status of marriage. If it was a purely private and personal thing, why bother holding an "official" ceremony to seek recognition by the state and the community in the first place?

by **Amaryl** Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:05 am

Honestly, I believe the church has the right to refuse to marry gays. I mean, those preachers can do whatever the fuck they want, and if their closeted views think that gays don't deserve to be married because its a sin against god, who are we to refuse them?

Heck, I don't even understand Gays that actually want to marry in a church that vehemently opposes to their very existence. Where is the point where you just say, Fuck you church you're stupid.

Why do Gays fight so hard to be "accepted" for who they are and what they believe in and people should just accept it since they're there to stay, While refusing to Allow others "ministers/priests/rabbies" to keep their own views? Isn't that Hypocritical?

Your right to do as you please, don't remove their right to do as they please. And So I find the refusal of Gay-marriage a pretty decent bloody thing.

If you want the "wedding" Just hold one. invite your friends and family, rent a venue, dress up, open bar, and have the day of your life. go for it. Why do you even want to Ruin it, with the concept of "Marriage"

Why do you so desperately want to fit in with something that clearly doesn't want you?

Now the actual Problem on the "Gay marriage' thing isn't the ceremony of marriage, the show of undying love (lol) for your loved one.
It is the fact that the state issued marriage, actual grants rights, like hospital visiting rights, tax-breaks, insurance breaks, custody rights and some more things.

And those benefits being denied too some people that is wrong.
But to call it "marriage" in my opinion is slightly reminiscent of the dark-ages as well. and even though there have been some changes.
heck in the Netherlands you actually have to marry in the city hall, and then if you want a big church ceremony you're free to do it, but that's just symbolical.

So basically, the State Marriage should be removed completely, and something should be implemented that's completely Secular, Like: A contract of partnership or something. for couples.

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