Re: Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

Necromancers, the lot of you D:

[Dréfurion]

Necromancers, the lot of you D:

This.

[Drustai]

Necromancers, the lot of you D:

You rang?

[Lavian]

http://tonightsforecastdark.blogspot.com/2011/07/daily-show-fox-news-play-victim-card.html

Fox. -_-

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

Stay classy Fox.

[Nithel]

http://tonightsforecastdark.blogspot.com/2011/07/daily-show-fox-news-play-victim-card.html

Fox. -_-

;_; Fox.. what you doin'

[The Misty Beast]

http://tonightsforecastdark.blogspot.com/2011/07/daily-show-fox-news-play-victim-card.html

Fox. -_-

This is sad. Then again, the guy is pictured as a rightwing radical nazi in the majority of Eastern Europe, whilst the guy is Zionist out of his pure hatred towards Muslims (Edit: Proper definition would be Neo-Conservative, like George Bush.)

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

http://tonightsforecastdark.blogspot.com/2011/07/daily-show-fox-news-play-victim-card.html

Fox. -_-

This is sad. Then again, the guy is pictured as a rightwing radical nazi in the majority of Eastern Europe, whilst the guy is Zionist out of his pure hatred towards Muslims.

I'm not good at politics but isn't european left = american right and european right = american left?

[Dréfurion]

http://tonightsforecastdark.blogspot.com/2011/07/daily-show-fox-news-play-victim-card.html

Fox. -_-

This is sad. Then again, the guy is pictured as a rightwing radical nazi in the majority of Eastern Europe, whilst the guy is Zionist out of his pure hatred towards Muslims.

I'm not good at politics but isn't european left = american right and european right = american left?

No it's more like european left = communism in the U.S. European right = U.S. Left and U.S. right = rather far right in Europe..

[The Misty Beast]

I'm not good at politics but isn't european left = american right and european right = american left?

Americans are generally European left. It's more of a strange comparison between Western and Eastern-Europe I commented on, not only the USA.

[The Misty Beast]

No it's more like european left = communism in the U.S. European right = U.S. Left and U.S. right = rather far right in Europe..

The Liberals are patriotic as well, they despise communism. The 'far right', like George W. Bush are Neo-Conservatives that are I'd say plainly rightwing by traditional European terms. At least the Far right radicals in this general region (Eastern/Central Europe) are far, far more conservative and anti immigrant in any sense. (A good example would be that the 'Far right' Neo-Conservatives in a lot of Scandinavian countries tolerate and welcome Asians and africans, whilst they deem Muslims as dangerous to society and prone to be a defiant layer, whilst a far right party in Eastern-Europe (the region where the western liberalism is still yet to gain a powerful foothold) are against _any_ foreigners, including Jews, asians, Mulims, gypsies, or even neighboring countries.)

[Kristeas Sunbinder]

No it's more like european left = communism in the U.S. European right = U.S. Left and U.S. right = rather far right in Europe..

Americans are generally European left. It's more of a strange comparison between Western and Eastern-Europe I commented on, not only the USA.

Eh?

[The Misty Beast]

...Those are two different posters.

For an American, a liberal leftwinger is the closest thing to Communists because they are supportive to lending aid, world peace, open trade etc etc., with the main focus on of the betterment of both the US and the whole world (publically).

The Republicans are not so much on the other side of the pectrum, but they are the closest things to Fascists with the main concern being the betterment of the USA -only-, with even the aid and support they dish out being more about the improvement of the US-side of things, rather than 'giving to the poor and gain nothing from it' (which they can't afford anyway and its momentarily a complete mess regarding their political aims). And that's only the foreign policy, the internal is deeper.

PS: Any native or politologist here please correct me if I'm wrong, my American is a bit rusty and wouldn't mind some professional input to broaden the public knowledge.

[Dréfurion]

Look at it like this:
..............Left---------US-----------------right
left----------------EU--------------right

Essentially the scope of (the majority of the) parties in especially northern European countries (counting Dutchland) has a center point that's more to the left than in the US, also the most left wing parties are more left than the US parties.

Then there's another thing to make matters difficult.. In the US right = economical liberialisation, but social conservatism. This is not true for the europen right which wants economical liberty + social liberty.. Because most parties here do not cling to religious conservatism like the US right does.. (there are exceptions) most 'religious' parties in the EU are found at our center.. etc etc

[The Misty Beast]

I highly doubt I'm mistaken when I'm drawing up three spectrums, not just two. You have to draw a line between the European West and East as well, with the West blending -a lot- of American democracy and liberalism into their politics. Additionally, I just said, the 'communists' (democrats) in the US are nowhere near Communists. Same as the 'fascists' (republicans) being nowhere near the far right in the USA compared to the original concepts. Their extremities are torn up anyway. Fun fact, both REpublicans and Democrats are fully supportive of Democracy, yet only one party is named such. Heck, both parties are supposed to have Religious motivations as well (Protestant vs. Catholic), something that's in a completely different spectrum here in Europe.

[Dréfurion]

Edited it out.

But yes, for the religious conservatism is a great spectrum aswel that draws a diffrence between the US and the EU.. Because alot of politics in the US is still driven by it (upmarch of the tea party)

I also think that when we speak of the left wing we should consider their goal to help does less fortunate (within the nation's borders aswel) which in fact the leftwingers in the US are far less "radical" in than here in good ol' western Europe (I am not so well with Eastern European politics)

[The Misty Beast]

The leftwingers here are basically liberals or rather Socialists. The radical left are the Communists, but its obviously a lot less popular due to most of the area having been part of a Communist regime already. Not to mention the EU isn't exactly supportive of radicalist approaches either.

[Muzjhath]

You're missing one thing when looking at it.
The "left/right" switch is not different between the different regions of the world. They always stay the same.

What is different is what parties exist in a country, how big they are, and how much they are heard.

If we take the Democrats in the US. Their liberal party. It is a party that is a very liberal party and in (western) European standards rather far to the "right" of the political scale.
Then we take the Republicans, who are a conservative party. They are even further right in the scale.
In western Europe most Conservative parties are around where the Democrats in the US are. So whenever the Republicans look at western Europe they see a bunch of "leftists".
The fact of the matter is that while there are more leftist countries in the US, they aren't heard very much outisde of the US, or even on a US National scale.
Still to this day I wouldn't be surprised if many Republicans look at anything more to the left than the democrats = communism.

PS: The liberal agenda based on liberalism is basicly per defenition a rightwing agenda based on what it stands for, unless it is a socialistliberalism which is more towards the middle of the spectra.

[The Misty Beast]

You're missing one thing when looking at it.
The "left/right" switch is not different between the different regions of the world. They always stay the same.

How are we mising a point when I even differentiate between Wetern and Eastern Europe?

What is different is what parties exist in a country, how big they are, and how much they are heard.

Of course it does, as I even mentioned in my own example of the radical wings. The spectrum is however based on how these parties evolved and what they claim to be. Their background and supporters only change if they change the nature of their aims and focus, but that doesn't mean that the spectrum will shift overnight. Here in Hungary (an example), we have a leftwing absolutely Liberal, a Socialist, a far right radical, a mid-rightwing liberal-christian-conservative (what?) party. That's basically the whole spetrum. Does that mean that such don't exist in other countries? No, they are there, just not as supported, and the main spectrum still remains. In Western Europe, due to the cultural and general influence of the US, liberalism and the ideals of their democracy and multiculturalism seeped in, hence their general democratic (which on multiple points is Leftwing, or rather Liberal from our perspective) traits shifted Western Europe over time.

It has little to do with the parties present what is considered Leftwing and Rightwing, it's momentarily based on region. Otherwise the Far right here in Hungary would be considered National Socialists in Romania, and their leftwing socialists would be Communists by their definition, yet this isn't the case.

About the 'Conservatives', really? Leftwing, the UK's Conservatives, the Spanish, the German, the Austrian or the Hungarian for examples? Ideally they're supposed to be brutally rightwing and compared to the American Republicans they are hellalot more radical. (Their complete political baseline have both our Conservative and our leftwing Socialist/Labour/Liberal etc. ideals mixed, its a matter of how they utilize them is what defines their left/rightwing really. Or rather, how they iterate the Bill of Rights >.>)

[Guest]

You can't really compare one country's politics and goverment to the next one.

For example, this would be the parties of Denmark and where they're roughly at from our perspective:


While this is what an american would see:


(I'm so diplomatic I know...)

[Valerias]

Drefurion's post is the most accurate so far, really.

[The Misty Beast]

While this is what an american would see:


(I'm so diplomatic I know...)

I'm saving this pic the next time my American acquintances tell me their government has all aspects of politics in it.

You can't really compare one country's politics and goverment to the next one.

Hence I also differentiate between the Eastern Block and the West as well in Europe, the political agenda in this region is completely different (The West doesn't have to hift from the Soviet Union's doings for example, nor have as many border issues as us). I've also already described the difference between the 'Western Radical right' and the 'Eastern Radical Right'. If I want to sound like a brute, the Westerners are basically Neo-Conservatives whilst the Easterners are Fascists. Over there, the immigrants (particularly Muslims) are the main issue and part of the far right rhetorics, over here everybody that isn't a Hungarian/Romanian/Czech/Ukrainian etc etc. Jut look at Serbia and you'll get the picture.

[Rmuffn]

[Nithel]

let me tell you, I'm belgian and we know a thing or two about politics. so gather round and listen up kids. Its campfire time

[Dréfurion]

let me tell you, I'm belgian and we know a thing or two about politics. so gather round and listen up kids

I'd argue against that.. You have some of the most stupid politicians there are.. And you voted for these people!!

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