New Idea-need help

I'm rather sure, as has been stated in the thread several times, that it isn't being created to clash with the council >>

Saihna, if it clashes with the council I will walk away from it. Simply it shouldnt

What I meant was, I doubt the Council would ICly take any form of action. They'd probably applaud it more then anything. More initiative from the people. That's something we've wanted for a loooong time.

.... I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at. The council wouldn't take action, yup, sure, but they aren't looking for them to either O.o

*scratches head*

If you read up, you'd see what I'm talking about Osmand was hoping for us to make them an underground organization. At least that's how I understood it.

Ledgic/Omanos wrote:I'm all for this idea, the original post did have me a little confused, but after reading the thread, it does look like something that could create a lot of roleplay, and decent roleplay at that!

That was the very first version. Both the grammar and the content are damn rough. It will be updated soon anyway.

Basically the idea is creating a very militant, pro-workers political organization, possibly an organization above guilds in order to gather as much people as possible, heavily based on taking action in the streets rather than discussing: patrolling, demonstrating, picketing and so on. Its programme and "ideology" are yet to be decided (the programatic points in the opening post are just an example). Both hierarchy and membership are going to be the simplest possible. I see it more like some kind of old fashioned trade union than a proper political party, but that's my idea.

And as all trade unions, they will no doubt be subject to bribery and coercion? *evil cackle*

In my opinion, It could create some really great rp.
I think the idea of working people massing together is not that outlandish. It could easily happen in a world like the one in WoW.

I think Osmands point would that rp could be organised between the council and the guild. In terms of us challenging etc the role of the council in representing Working people. It doesn't have to be correct to the council per say, For example I doubt capatilists think that communist parties are doing a better job at representing working people. It would simply be the belief of the group that we would do a better job than the council. This in its own right would create some rp and more which could of course be organized. Thats my 2 cents could be wrong.

But tbh I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves by talking about specific events that could happen. I think its more important to get a proper base of members and to agree on a Ideology.
For example I would love to see a structure much like that of the Bolsheviks pre revolution, With a group of key theoreticians that clearly control the power in the group with militants below spreading they word.
Also if we could ask around about the possibility of a paper type in which we could spread our ideas, much like Pravda. "Workers Voice" I think would be a cool name for it or "Unity".

Dardric/Vaedric wrote:In my opinion, It could create some really great rp.
I think the idea of working people massing together is not that outlandish. It could easily happen in a world like the one in WoW.

It has already happened, just think of the new Westfall chain. There are even some marxist references in the quests ("...you have nothing to lose but you chains...")!

Dardric/Vaedric wrote:But tbh I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves by talking about specific events that could happen. I think its more important to get a proper base of members and to agree on a Ideology.
For example I would love to see a structure much like that of the Bolsheviks pre revolution, With a group of key theoreticians that clearly control the power in the group with militants below spreading they word.

My main concern is having the simplest, most effective and inclusive organization possible. Any kind of populistic and pro-workers ideal is fine for me as long as we're able to gather plenty of people and provide the right amount of RP.

Dardric/Vaedric wrote:Also if we could ask around about the possibility of a paper type in which we could spread our ideas, much like Pravda. "Workers Voice" I think would be a cool name for it or "Unity".

We've made some very simple attempts last Summer, back in the days when we RPed in the Mage Quarter, the Park (RIP) and the Harbour.

The Waterfront - Issue 1
The Waterfront - Issue 2

Saihna/Julia wrote:Edit: That is also why I believe a active House of Nobles would create a LOT of roleplay. Now that is something the Council would have quite strong "discussions" with considering the Council and the House of Nobles would be very very different.

This has been tried several times, there just hasnt been enough shown interest.


Back to topic: Exellent idea, now Braiden will have something new to be angry at.

This is an interesting idea, I wish you luck. I certainly am interested to see how things will work out.
I could imagine this factions making frequent references to the gnomes since they are both a republic (leadership chosen by the people) and fairly meritocratic (in their own quirky gnomish way).

One word of caution though. While farmers/peasants frequently have risen up for better living conditions, most of them have been what we today refer to as conservative and reactionary. Both the liberal and the communist ideals have been strong urban movements, with usually very little support in the countryside. In revolutionary france the peasants of Vendée and Languedoc rose up time and again to bring back both the King and the Aristocracy to France.
While I could imagine the people of Westfall, duskwood and Redridge jumping on this idea (mostly due to the abandonment). I doubt you'd find much supporters in Elwynn. Stormwind itself would of course be very divided (your strongest supporters and strongest opponents).

---

Also: Julia... as for the council being noble or not. You so are. If not in name then for sure in praxis and living conditions. You said it youself: You sit on it for free. It means you are all rich enough to forgo what probably is 80 hours week's worth of pay. While not all who sat back then remains, vitually every member of the council offered to pay for Gahalla's rent when she announced she couldn't afford to live in the mage district anymore.
Everyone on the council have always dressed very nice. Often bright colourful robes or well polished parade armour, again a sign of time.

Moreover, the council had it's fair share of paladins (essentially order knights, elevated from knighthood or priesthood... two very noble influenced groups), mages (just look at the magetower and Dalaran, noble-level luxury right there), priests (the difference between the first and second estate is hairfine). These are all groups that differ a lot from the commoners so to say.

Remember, the biggest asset of nobility is not the title or the wealth. But the time.
Time to study. Time to learn to fight (to learn to fight competentely takes about 8 years). Time to learn the politics to be able to advance in the military.
Because you don't have to work.

If you are a professional soldier (and especially a senior officer). A professional mage. A professional politician. Or anything else where you don't spend your days doing hard manual labour or a craft for a living.
Then you are a de facto noble. Title or not.

That said. The council is very welcome to consider themselves IC of the people and to be of common birth. The conflict of interest could be a great fun thing to rp. Just remember that they calling you noble (or, if you'd like, class traitors) is a very reasonable thing ooc. Since the characters in the council tend to be more likely to be dancing in a ballroom than working on a farm/mine/factory.

I know this idea is a bit off, and rather biased, but if you really don't want to downgrade it all to more-or-less medieval setting, you can say that you got your inspiration from draenic collectives ICly. That gives you justification for such things as moneyless society, collectivism..and anything else if you twist it all well enough.

I'd gladly help with this, even with a dwarven sideranch as I'm planning to start a smaller riot-phase in Ironforge (The Barrens campaign depleted most of the treasury and supplies, so the commoners are forced to pay greater taxes and work harder --> Pissed off dwarves)

About the 'Noble - Non-Noble thing' - It depends on the organiser what is to be acknowledged. Whether it's important if a person is noble in practice, in name, niether or both and whether the party would be targetting either or both groups that fit the description Gahalla wrote. Additionally if the party is as violent as I feel it's going to be then you may be damn sure it's not just ideology that will make you choose sides, but the masses that demand fair treatment, not justice towards those that have a title and some privileges, even if you're not a noble by status, bled and pushed for your current position and may lead a much better life than those that join the party. It'd make awesome RP, and at least it won't be black and white in concept.

I think what is needed now is for everyone that is interested to sit down and try and hammer our some ideology and just general ideals the guild would hold.

Gahalla wrote:One word of caution though. While farmers/peasants frequently have risen up for better living conditions, most of them have been what we today refer to as conservative and reactionary. Both the liberal and the communist ideals have been strong urban movements, with usually very little support in the countryside. In revolutionary france the peasants of Vendée and Languedoc rose up time and again to bring back both the King and the Aristocracy to France.
While I could imagine the people of Westfall, duskwood and Redridge jumping on this idea (mostly due to the abandonment). I doubt you'd find much supporters in Elwynn. Stormwind itself would of course be very divided (your strongest supporters and strongest opponents).

Good points. I say chauvinism, a strong faith in the Holy Light and even a bit of xenophobia would fit perfectly a human commoner.

Regarding Stormwind, I was thinking about using the Harbour given the high presence of longshoremen and labourers. The Old Town and the Dwarven District would be good too, given their kinda "working-class" and "low-life" ambience. Anyway, some action in the countryside will take place for sure: raising money for broken families, occupying campfields, picketing mines and so on.

Would it be easier to get interested chars in a party in game?

I have no wow time at the moment and i am not getting more until my exams are over. June 23rd is when I will be back to be specific.

Perhaps a union would fit in to this?

I really like this idea but never even dared to dream that it could actually come true.
Its right up our alley

As much as I like the idea I feel it's a bit too close to an RL movement and I'd like to see it more.. separated. More based on the wow world.
What I fear is that, despite the great concept, it's also far too close to people's personal ambitions and real life political views.

Let me ask you this... if someone takes a piss at your char ICly... Are you sure you will be able to separate this ICly and OOCly? It feels almost like a personal view brought into the game rather than an rp concept enriched with reflections on the real world. Dangerous.

Lazarus wrote:Perhaps a union would fit in to this?

That's what I'd go for too.

Jeanpierre wrote:Let me ask you this... if someone takes a piss at your char ICly... Are you sure you will be able to separate this ICly and OOCly? It feels almost like a personal view brought into the game rather than an rp concept enriched with reflections on the real world. Dangerous.

What do you mean, JP?

I feel like there's a strong real life political ambition and ideal behind RP'ing this.

Well the plebeians could be angry against extra taxation for war, while the noblemen still sit comfy in their golden armour.

angry for taking the sons and daughters to die in some distant lands while everything grows to shit, while the lords and ladies sit comfy on their thrones.

angry for letting the country-side go to waste like in westfall, duskwood etc and making them dependant on foreign trade and imports, stealing their honest jobs, while the lords and ladies take the riches and use it to send more of them into war.

angry at decades of warfare with nothing to show for it.

angry at the state of the city while they king keeps pouring in more refugees into the kingdom, refugees of a kingdom that clearly didn't want anything to do with them during the previous hardships.

angry at the acceptances of warlocks and deathknights into their society, while they have had to suffer at their hands for so long.

and then generaly angry because mary the smithies daughter was supposedly touched in the wrong place by this filthy priest.

I don't object that. It's just that I get the impression some of these ideas stem from RL political ideals first, and are only then translated to fit the wow world. I just fear it will touch a sensitive subject. That's it basically. Certainly, there is room for anger among the commoners and action to be taken

There is a different between peasant revolt, and a well-throught-through political revolution though.