Current News - US forces kill Osama Bin Laden in Pakista

I don't think they should have killed him; won't that just make him a martyr? What do I know though... either way, even though I don't agree with them executing him, I think it's a good step to redeeming Arabs and hopefully our image will change globally.

And I don't think dumping somebody's body in the ocean is ok in Islam so all this about respecting "Islamic traditions" sounds weird to me ...

Shaelyssa wrote:I don't think they should have killed him; won't that just make him a martyr? What do I know though... either way, even though I don't agree with them executing him, I think it's a good step to redeeming Arabs and hopefully our image will change globally.

Even if he had been trialed, his sentence would've been death, no doubt about that. But yes, he'll be made a martyr.
In fact...

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1658: Hundreds of people have taken to the streets of Pakistan's south-western city of Quetta to pay homage to Bin Laden, chanting death to America and setting fire to a US flag, the AFP news agency is quoting witnesses and organisers as saying.

Other points of interest:

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1652: There are photos of Osama Bin Laden's death, says the BBC's Katty Kay, at the Pentagon. But, she adds, the White House may fear that the images are too bloody to be seen.

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1653: Bin Laden was given a religious funeral before his burial at sea, a US defence official is quoted as saying by Reuters.

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1648: The BBC's Katty Kay, at the Pentagon, reports: "A White House official tells me there was no decision to automatically go for a kill. US military personnel are not authorised to kill if a subject surrenders, but because of who Bin Laden was it was widely assumed that there would be a kill. The White House also says it was Bin Laden who 'cowardly hid' behind a woman."

Killing him brings about a sense of closure and finality, both for the US and for what's left of al qaeda.
If he had been left to rot in Guantanamo for a decade before being put before a firing squad, aq could've exploited it far more. His sudden death out of the blue is hugely demoralizing and may just break the remaining stragglers.

The US has had 10 years to plan it, and I expect what happened this morning was exactly what they wanted.

Amaryl wrote:

Feydor/Dostoyev wrote:
And for all those speaking of how they buried him within 24 hours, in order to keep up with Islamic traditions, I ask you, how long did they keep the bodies of Qusay and Uday Hussein (Saddams sons). The answer is 11 days. I could point to countless other cases of high stature Muslim's murders, and the fact their bodies being kept way more than 1 day. Do you really think that there would be an uproar if the body was kept for examination and such, longer than a day?

stop posting claims and assumptions and keep to the facts as you yourself are advocating? seriously asking a quasi rhetorical question, based on no facts, and solely on "perception and opinion, isn't

Feydor/Dostoyev wrote:merely wishing to attain the complete facts.

stop using strawmen arguments. and keep to the facts yourself, if you really want to.

the only actual question you can, and admittedly you should pose is this: how was the dna testing conducted, and where was the prior osama dna collected.

to which you don't have an answer yet, so stop countering speculations with speculations based on assumptions based on shit you read.

Regarding Qusay and Uday Hussein, here are the facts:
They were killed on July 22nd after a three hour gunfight. Photographic evidence of their bodies were provided, which you can view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIdU2ei_TTQ If you so desire. They were held for 11 days, before being buried on August 3rd. And the burial video is located here:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e71_1182198314
I think you are misunderstanding my "merely wishing to attain the complete facts".
If you read my posts carefully, when I am making claims I clearly write I -THINK-. Not objectively, SUBJECTIVELY. I am not saying it is the case, I am saying my beliefs.
I am wishing for facts/proof to be released about his murder, as the burden is on the government to release these. This doesn't change, regardless of what questions I rhetorically ask. If you are stating that because of my desire for proof to be released regarding his death, I cannot then ponder and speculate in my posts regarding other issues, then that's quite authoritarian of you. I wish to attain the facts and proof of Osama's death, before being satisfied that he has been killed. It is simple, really.
If you think the only question I can ask is about the DNA evidence, then that is quite limiting. Regardless, I would like for the raw, DNA test results to be released, not the claims of a high-ranking official saying it is so. And I would like for you to kindly point out where I have used strawmen arguments, rather than just saying that I have. Where have I attacked an exagerrated position of someones statements?


And to Lini, I think you are unsure of what position I am holding. I do wish to see, the raw DNA evidence, and any photographs or videos to further analyse them. It's just the fact that they haven't been released yet, so until then I cannot say for sure that he is dead.

Mervyn wrote:

But then again, isn't it amazing how much the Americans get done when the playstation networks down!

My brother was phoning me at work begging me to tell him when it's getting fixed...

I was deeply upset by this news. I get an hour lunch break at work, and there's a regular show on every lunch hour that we all sit and watch as we nom our lunch. CANCELLED DUE TO EPIC NEWS? Fuck you BBC. Fuck you.

My own disregard for this will probably get me bombed.

Update - http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-osama-bin-laden-compound-pictures,0,2145882.photogallery

Apparant pictures of the compound, some blood stains can be seen. Hopefully this is the beginning of more evidence to be released, but it doesn't confirm much yet. Baffles me even more that the ISI and Pakistani Military didn't see anything suspicious about a compound like this, on their doorstep.

the raw DNA evidence

To be honest Feydor. The raw DNA "evidence" will tell you nothing at all. It will consist of two sets samples. One being the previous sample and the other being the current. You'd still have to accept their word for it that it was the correct samples.

Even so... just to understand the raw data you need some rather in-depth knowledge on DNA analysis. So the raw data will be next to useless anyways.

It would however be then open for analysis by anyone, which is better than the current situation: nothing at all. The comparison of the two samples would also be open for analysis.
Indeed, it is hard to completely guarantee the whole thing, especially when it is all confined to one body, the US government. There would be better methods to do it, but I doubt that those would be heard out. So yes, at the end of the day, some of the belief is truly that, just belief. But I would prefer that than this current state, where little is known.

Apparantly also, the raid was monitored live by CIA officials. Sketchy as to what exactly was monitored, but I would ponder whether the troops may have had head mounted/chest mounted cameras. If so, that would further help the official story.

You need access to the DNA samples before you can connect them to whatever results the US releases. In fact, you need to extract the samples yourself before you can connect it to anything.

Having a neutral country verify the results would've been the best option, I think.

Gahalla wrote:

the raw DNA evidence

To be honest Feydor. The raw DNA "evidence" will tell you nothing at all. It will consist of two sets samples. One being the previous sample and the other being the current. You'd still have to accept their word for it that it was the correct samples.

Even so... just to understand the raw data you need some rather in-depth knowledge on DNA analysis. So the raw data will be next to useless anyways.

Precisely my point. The general public will get nothing out of the evidence, even if it gets released or leaked. The data itself says nothing about whose DNA it is. All it shows is the correlation between the two data sets being compared. In this case either an earlier sample of DNA confirmed to be Osama's, or DNA that of his relatives (like, say, his son who was also killed]

As you can see, the raw data isn't very...self-explanatory.

That being said, I fully expect the photos of dead Osama to be leaked at some point.

Also, video footage of Osama's alleged compound has been available for quite some time now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13260250

Indeed, that is what I was alluding to when saying there are better methods. But even then there is the possibility for manipulation and influence. Apparantly, the DNA that they will be comparing it with is from a sister that died from brain cancer in USA a few years ago. I think to make sure of the DNA samples, it'd have to be in a sort of blind-test format, like they do with medical experiments.

Regarding Qusay and Uday Hussein, here are the facts:
They were killed on July 22nd after a three hour gunfight. Photographic evidence of their bodies were provided, which you can view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIdU2ei_TTQ If you so desire. They were held for 11 days, before being buried on August 3rd. And the burial video is located here:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e71_1182198314
I think you are misunderstanding my "merely wishing to attain the complete facts".

And the Americans were criticized for it. The Americans apparently learned from it too by doing this, while it is not a perfect way of respecting Islamic customs, it is still an improvement.

My own disregard for this will probably get me bombed.

Call in an airstrike, I want this person taken out!

Anyway, I would find it highly dubious if the Pakistanis didn't know about this. Either they're completely and utterly incompetent, were aiding Bin Laden, or they just got unlucky (unlucky for a few years straight.).

Dutch news also said there is a military hospital close-by. If it's true that Bin Laden had kidney problems then that would have been quite useful for him. I can't verify it with an English source but it's an interesting thing to ponder.

Fantastic, as of today terrorism no longer excists and I dont want any penny ever spend on it ever again.

America writing some random sand nigger off as lex luther, give me a break.

Feydor/Dostoyev wrote:
Regarding Qusay and Uday Hussein, here are the facts:
They were killed on July 22nd after a three hour gunfight. Photographic evidence of their bodies were provided, which you can view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIdU2ei_TTQ If you so desire. They were held for 11 days, before being buried on August 3rd. And the burial video is located here:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e71_1182198314
I think you are misunderstanding my "merely wishing to attain the complete facts".
If you read my posts carefully, when I am making claims I clearly write I -THINK-. Not objectively, SUBJECTIVELY. I am not saying it is the case, I am saying my beliefs.
I am wishing for facts/proof to be released about his murder, as the burden is on the government to release these. This doesn't change, regardless of what questions I rhetorically ask. If you are stating that because of my desire for proof to be released regarding his death, I cannot then ponder and speculate in my posts regarding other issues, then that's quite authoritarian of you. I wish to attain the facts and proof of Osama's death, before being satisfied that he has been killed. It is simple, really.
If you think the only question I can ask is about the DNA evidence, then that is quite limiting. Regardless, I would like for the raw, DNA test results to be released, not the claims of a high-ranking official saying it is so. And I would like for you to kindly point out where I have used strawmen arguments, rather than just saying that I have. Where have I attacked an exagerrated position of someones statements?


And to Lini, I think you are unsure of what position I am holding. I do wish to see, the raw DNA evidence, and any photographs or videos to further analyse them. It's just the fact that they haven't been released yet, so until then I cannot say for sure that he is dead.

You cannot chastise someone for posing his view based on current information, for not looking for facts, with a post filled with opinions, and strawman arguments. that's my point, you're not being honest.

you're putting what-ifs scenarios without backing as rethorical questions. for people to see, and claim that as analysing the situation from available sources? no matter how scientific you might think your approach is or how often you put in -I think- to make clear its an opinion, it doesn't strenghten your position.

now regarding your wild-claim about muslim burials. and the US's lack of care thereoff -Now-.
How about you first put in proper sources. how about you properly state the date where usay and qusay were killed?
exactly: 2003.

and unless my memory fails me, the US commander-in-chief at the time wasn't the same one they have today.

so unless you have proof that the US has not changed its customs, regarding the burial procedures for high value dead enemies that happen to be muslim.

policy can change during 8 years especially when there's a change of power. especially with current understanding of middle-eastern muslim fanatics.

if you want to bash people's quick beliefs of the current information available, while asking for more facts. which you are totally entitled to.
Don't do it in a post filled with conjunction, assumption and unsubstantiated opinion.

but actually do it with an "institutional Analysis"

Quin wrote:Fantastic, as of today terrorism no longer excists and I dont want any penny ever spend on it ever again.

America writing some random sand nigger off as lex luther, give me a break.

Haha, hear hear.

You might appreciate the subtle 'celebration' on /b/
*Snips link*

Mod: Porn and shit, careful Sprack.

Hey feydor can you explain that drama in your signature pls it look v interesting

its from http://www.defiasrp.com/t2544-roleplaying-and-large-groups

Feydor/Dostoyev wrote:

You might appreciate the subtle 'celebration' on /b/

you're linking to a porn containing website? >.>

I doubt that anyone here expects anything different from the link

Seems the US is now roasting Pakistan as well as debating wether or not to release the photos of dead Osama.

What we're waiting for...

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/03/bin.laden.courier/index.html?eref=edition

Woooh go Kuwait!