World-Pvp and Nurturing Future Warlords!

Hello there, i'l keep this short and simple. i've had some thought, and come up with a theory that one of the reasons that World pvp has become less speradic, Random, Regular, "large scale" and something the entire server can dive into at once...

...is Becuase we dont have enough up and coming Battle leaders giving it a go. This could be for several reasons, perhaps people are put off by a first attempt, or maybe they consider it a closed niche reserved for the already experienced/big guild leaders/server celebrities perhaps.

i personnaly would very much like to see that change, whatever the reasons, and was wondering what this forums community thought to me posting up a Guide to what makes this Server so Famous compared to the other, a Beginners Guide to world-pvp.

it would likely contain methods on organisation, Theory, training, Tactics, and be more or less an overall Strategy guide to help new Warlords/Warmaidens get some ideas they can use, and allow them the chance to eventually come up with their own.

Opinions welcome, thanks for any comments.

Strategy guide personally wouldn't work in this scenario. I see no harm in talking about it as a discussion however if it is within reason. I just do not see it overly helping much.

The biggest problem is the Drama that follows large PvP events like a mistress showing up to family dinners. because in big organised pvp events of multi-guilds there's always somebody that starts whining, and it spreads like wildfire through the camps, turning into ye olde "No U" fests.

I'm not saying big events are always destroyed by that, certainly not, I usually get a fair deal of enjoyment out of them. it just leaves a bad taste, and it seems to follow all big horde-alliance events to some degree or another.

hence i prefer to keep it "smallish" instead of inviting everyone and their mums.

Amaryl wrote:The biggest problem is the Drama that follows large PvP events like a mistress showing up to family dinners. because in big organised pvp events of multi-guilds there's always somebody that starts whining, and it spreads like wildfire through the camps, turning into ye olde "No U" fests.

I'm not saying big events are always destroyed by that, certainly not, I usually get a fair deal of enjoyment out of them. it just leaves a bad taste, and it seems to follow all big horde-alliance events to some degree or another.

hence i prefer to keep it "smallish" instead of inviting everyone and their mums.

duelly noted, thats always a pain after an event, good or bad, clearing up complaints. these can be sourced to numerous reasons... discontent with the result, accidental camping, or individuals/groups breaking pre arranged 'rules', such as rules regarding gear, and numbers.

In my experience it's easier if the sides aren't too diverse (or on each side one major group with a few others so that there is a central command, not 3-4 groups that are trying to fight together). Also a good OOC communication is important, I try to stick in contact with someone from the other side, mostly as a balance the sides, winning is fun ofcourse, but it's not fun to lose. Incase one side is dominating, either let that side take off some gear, or let the fight start with less of the dominating players and feed in the others after a while. Also the ooc communication is good to transmit important actions... like setting fire to Galen's fall. And the last thing you want to do is find out that you have the fight planned at one time, and the other side has it planned 2 hours later.
The new HP has resulted in longer battles wich is always good.

Another discouraging factor, in addition to the drama, is the dissapointment. There you are, spending a couple of hours planning and talking and such, and in the end you don't hear drama (x did this, y did that, z had too high gear), but complaining towards the organisation, not enough fights, too short. A general lack of aknowledgement.

Well, maybe the guide should try and offer some advice from the pro's on countering and extinguishing the drama. I'm sure the old dogs have some ways to diminish the outcry, even if completely removing is impossible.

A guide could be very nice indeed. I like guides. They make life more organised. Also a thumbs up for more discussion, it can serve as good fodder for a guide or two!

Yes do it.

May did/tried to do this before, but it always evolves into an argument, since people have 487487634976 different views regarding this matter. At the end no consensus is reached and everyone simply agrees to disagree. One more try won't hurt I guess.

Edit: Also, I can't help but remember the old days, where no planning was done and no OOC communication was ever taking place. It was as simple as "We have gathered a group and we are now attacking, pull your shit together and defend or simply walk away in shame". Do want those days back *sigh*

Been recently promoted to Kardonir of Arathor. And will certainly try to lead us into battle more oftenly!

Had a wee clash with OotRB in Twilight Highlands a day ago. Was very smooth, enjoyable, everyone liked it. o/

Faralan Thorgint wrote:Been recently promoted to Kardonir of Arathor. And will certainly try to lead us into battle more oftenly!

Had a wee clash with OotRB in Twilight Highlands a day ago. Was very smooth, enjoyable, everyone liked it. o/

i heard the commentary, good effort on both sides.

and mandui, being a server dinosaur i recall those days too, and how gods i miss them.

though the aim of my guide isnt about dictating how people should run their events, or setting rules, my aim is merely to give aspiring commanders the tools they need to pull off clever stategems and keep their army/force/regiment prepared.

Here. The only guide you will ever need :3

But yeah, give it a try and see how it goes.

Mandui wrote:Here. The only guide you will ever need :3

But yeah, give it a try and see how it goes.

"Know yourself, and know your enemy,a and you shall always pwn n00bs" - or words to those effect. *cough*

Mandui this is World of Warcraft, why Sun Tzu is pretty useless compared to
This

Lazarus wrote:Mandui this is World of Warcraft, why Sun Tzu is pretty useless compared to
This

Two guides then!

The ultimate guide for avoiding RP-PVP drama.

Don't invite me.

The moment anyone whines about losing and making excuses (PVP GEAR WTFLOL GTFO OMG THEY BROUGHT OOCERS WHO I KNOW FOR A FACT DON'T ROLEPLAY OHWAIT), make an example of them. By which I naturally mean feed them to a hungry baby corehound that has blunt teeth, after chaining them down, of course. Loosely translated, this means "KIIIICK".

And of course, corpsecamping should only be considered in retarded circumstances (Either 4-1 outnumbered, or intentional combatressing, etc.. Stupid shit that shouldn't happen if OOC comm actually works). Anyone who is found to be intentionally corpsecamping by the commander should be called into line. If they refuse, kick.

IF you have a set commander and not a council of five and however many randomers chip in, make it clear that HE IS THE GOD DAMN BOSS. Anyone argues/questions? Kick. You can't execute for disobedience in WoW, so that's the next best thing. This sounds like it'll create more drama if the one you kick is particularly well liked/loud mouthed, but it shouldn't escalate too much unless it's one of these demi-gods that everyone likes because it's cool to.

Make sure the rules are clear before you go anywhere.

"If you fuck with me, kick. If you fuck with the enemy, kick. If you whine, kick.", or something to that effect. Most likely not as simplistic as that.

You need to have true authority to keep the majority happy and the whine to a minimum. If it means being a complete arse, then so be it.

If OOCers DO turn up, don't indulge them. If you're on the receiving end, stay ghost-dead. If you're on the OOCers faction, retreat back to a designated mainbase until further communication.


Yes, this has turned into something of a guide in itself, but truthfully, you can't -teach- a leader. You either have it, or you don't. It's possible to teach a Commander, though. Keep in mind that they aren't one and the same, and a true leader is invariably better than a good commander.

Take this guide with a pinch of salt. I only ever led the occasional group of exceptionally well behaved Death Knights, and lolganking parties. Nothing particularly glorious in the eyes of roleplayers.

The iron fist, however, is a good tactic, so long as you're careful not to kindle more whining by kicking someone who -isn't- annoying everyone, and after making your rules CLEAR.


To answer (finally) the question posed in the OP, a guide would be a nice addition to these forums. But it has to be relevant. As I said, you can't truly teach a leader, it's a gift. Great generals are rare for a reason. But making passable commanders more common can't possibly be a negative.

One thing to give a try is wpvp at Tol Barad Peninsula, Wintergrasp or some other place where you are auto-rezzed at the graveyard. If both sides can just GY-zerg one another without risk of rezz timers (I think), there won't really be any losing to spoil the fun for anyone.

That's a very good suggestion, Saevir. Wintergrasp especially now it's not a daily quest hub. The only problem is it loses some of it's meaning. When you're making a last stand at Tarren Mill to save it from being overrun, suddenly going to WG is fairly immersion breaking, and, may add more whine because of that than ressurecting manually.

Swings and roundabouts, really.

Voted yes! Mainly because I wanted to see another guide up and also because I LOVE PvP events, hell i'll even do them in my RP gear and spend 2 hours getting my arse spanked I don't care as long as the battles are fun, the RP is quality and the're is some sort of order and common ground with everyone simply there to have fun, a laugh and some backdoor banter while hammering buttons.

The main thing that happens is people get guild ego and it deteriorates and we end up where we are now with people not wanting to bother. (on all sides!) Thing is though, it's something we all want. If a guide helps us find the way and we can shove these ego's aside.. by fucking christ there will be BLOOD, THUNDER and SPILT COKE ON KEYBOARDS!

To quote Keeshan "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHAHGAGHAAHGGH!!!!!!!!!"

Let's make it happen. If you want help with the guide i'm more then happy to chip in and I know a hell of alot of other poeple are too! XD

I'd say it's worth a shot. But if you want to write something extensive, then keep in close mind what you want to write and how it relates to WPvP as such. For example a bit of logic:
We lack WPvP -> It's because we lack Leaders.
Why do we lack leaders -> Because people are afraid to organise battles -> Why? -> Because of drama -> How do we limit drama?

And so forth. That sounds a bit stupid, I know, but I just mean that it should be clear what you assume is "wrong" and then why you believe that it is so. I mean we might not even lack leaders becasue they are afraid, it might be because they believe we lack proper areas for it. Thus you suggest areas, and so on. Reckon these forums are excellent for providing various insights.

I've said yes, purely because of how badly the last few of these events I've attended have gone. 'sides, it'll be interesting to see what you come up with, even if I'm not a fan of these guides in general.

You need two ingredients to pull this off:
1. a planning.
2. a direct communication line between leaders.

This concludes my guide to World-PvP.

I think a w-pvp guide could come handy. The only thing I'd like to add is that you shouldn't forget to write down common sense things.

The Art of War and The Prince, two books well worth reading but not in the context of Warcraft RP. The lore's so 2D and the in game politics/society/armed forces so modern in their modus operandi that a great deal of what both books have to say is obsolete. The Art of War less so, but that's because a great deal of it is common sense condensed into a few short phrases rather than a book on political/military strategy.

I haven't quoted the Prince in my signature yet, although the one about Bishops is in much the same vein.

"Am Krieg" is read worthy book . fuck them oldie books. Prussia is where its at? , both in the description of strategy in the post Napoleon era. and the awesome Polemic that's being discussed in it. its just a shame that book was never finished

and the prince was just silly, but maybe I just dislike the entire 15th century italian prose. there were some interresting barbs to the dude that fired the poor sod, but I just dislike the whole romantic prose, shrouded in asskissery and flattery >.<' and I do really wonder why this book has the status it actually has.

i'm going to add my two cents to this.

my exprince with world pvp is mostly at the lowbie stage ( end game bores me) it normal goes like this.
Hear about a possable pvp event, you ask questions. even sign up on the calader. things seem good. till the date and you re ask do you think there be any low levels there.
Then comes the rules of engament no x gear ( rings and trinkets are fine ) etc.. Then chaos hits as pvp starts. one side dies. the early ones try and raise a few maybe are still fighting and target the freshly rasied. nor letting them get away.
Which is followed by a raid/guild rant how x killed y when x did this and d is in x armer so unfair...

As a lowbie that does turn up to events i know what going to happen. a surpising few dont. most guilds that do a bit of pvp has a semi regual set of lowbie that sign up. ( normal alt leveling tring other fraction and so on)

if told there be no one under x level it wont be wise to attend but im still welcome. you decind not to and while the event goes on all you see if negivtive comments. then for some time after. You lose that interest. but some rp is great after it.

The big problem is comuncation, no one giives the orginasors any chance to talk due to in home whine. then getting whiners of there high horse. but i do think having some ooc idea of what you face befor hand can help.

have been talking to a few friends about pvp and came up with a minor battle line i share with you. three sides her a team
-champion- one player from each side is allowed free game to what ever gear they like, rp reason, leader, champion of fraction etc...(feel free to think of other reasons) big rule has to target the rival fractions one, cant aid others till rival is dead.
-the west flank your high end players with an agrreed gear limit. this be the time to inspect, and sort any problems and fine tune size, level and so on, Big rule - mainly to attack the west flank if all enimies are dead has free reign to roll down the line
-the east flank- the lowbies, no rules other then they have to attack mainly there flank if the flank wins can roll up the line as they see fit.

not tried of tested.

(now i should wake up, and work out my orc or forsaken toon)