Alternate History; A fickle thing.

So as some of you may know I study English and Drama joint honours.. I hope to go on and teach! However, history has always been a passion of mine, we have been tasked with creative writing, a relatively short story based on whatever we want. I am a stout Royalist and wish to view the world in an alternate way.

I wish to set the story in the time of King George V (1912), however within my story my tweak to the timeline is simply that King George III did not suffer from such vile mental and physical illness therefore having the clarity of mind to reconsider his view on taxation when the Americans met the British with force . He offered them a parliament in 1776, only one year into the American Civil War to govern taxes within the colonies in return for continued unity. Agreeing the Americans swore their alleigance and took up Parliament in Philadelphia with George Washington as it's first Prime Minister founded the American Whig party and lead the Americans from their transition of thirteen colonies into the United British States. After these events, George IV was crowned "George the Fourth, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, the United British States and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith."

That is a very basic skeleton of what I want to write about. However I wanted advice on A what you thought of the basic skeleton and B what events may have taken place as a result of it, such a massive change of events will spawn numerous realities ofc but major major events would be beaut! Everything up to 1912.

Danke!

The American Civil War, did it ever happen, what side did Britain go with?

I love alternate history when it's done nicely (and not just: how would the world look like when everything was run by moose ;_; ) and the point you alter is very interesting imo so looking forward to see how this goes on.

The late 19th century but mostly the early 20th century were marked by the beginning of the end of the hegemony of Europe over the world. Now that the one nation (USA) that basically delivered the final blow to the hegemony of Europe is British, I imagine changes to the events slowly building up to this. ( French revolution, Congress of Vienna, build-up to World War I)

The french revolution isn't that important, since napoleon being french wanted to defeat england. the only difference is that the war of 1812 didn't happen so the brits could have had more regiments during the peninsula campaign. which wouldn't have amounted to any different change, since that was only a very minor theatre of operations during the Napoleonic wars.

edit:
a more important question could be how would the rest of the common wealth react to the thirteen colonies getting "home rule" so to speak. will the US-spanish/mexican wars happen? is canada british or french? does Ireland get "home-rule"?

An interesting scenario. I would personally very much doubt George Washington would end up Prime Minister in the colonies though, the way I've understood it is that it was the war itself that was the highlight of his career leading to the presidentship. There were many other very prominent statesmen in the colonies, would not one of them be more suitable?
Other than that I like it.

But as for what this would affect? A lot.

With no American Revolution/independce war Bourbon France will not have anything to divert lots of it's navy and army to assist, thus not having to raise the taxes that fateful year 1789 (or any of the preceding years). With no raised taxes, the situation in Paris will be a whole lot less tense. Does that mean the storming of the Bastille did not take place (at that time)?

With the French revolution being delayed/not taking place, the career ladder known as the Republican Army will not have existed. Will the young captain called Nabullione Buonaparte ever rise to the rank of general? Especially since his early campaigns: Provence, Italy and Egypt will not take place.
If it does not, will he leave the heavily nepotic Bourbon military to join the british-backed corsican revolutionaries again?

With no french revolution what will happen to the French colonies? Will Toussaint Louverture lead the Haitian revolution? Despite not having the american revolution as a inspiration?
Will Bourbon France ever sell Lousiana and the missisippi to the UBS? Or will they sell it to new Spain? Or not at all? Will there perhaps be a revolution among the French colonists?

Not having to fear the British, will the american extend the Monroe Doctrine, the promise of aid to any nation to secure their independence? Will that give the means to Spain and France to keep their colonies in the Americas and/or will the British holdings expand?
If the latter, will the new colonies be given the same rights as the UBS?

Will the war of 1812 happen? Will the scottish uprisings take place? Will the Irish?

What will happen in continental Europe, with the simmering tension against the British and not having had the satisfaction of seeing them defeated in the Americas?
Who will be the hegemon? France? Austria? Russia? Prussia?

With the potential of no French Republic and Empire. Will Belgium be formed? Will Sardinia and Piedmonte be formed? Will the seeds to a united Italy be sown? Will Austria hold Lombardia? Will Switzerland be the land of the Free Cantons? Will the Holy Roman Empire be dismantled? Will Poland recieve a brief spell of independence?

With potentionally no Jean Baptiste Bernadotte as a french marshal, to whom will the Swedish turn to when they have deposed Charles XIII?
If The French Empire does not happen. Will the congress of Vienna?
Will Sweden recieve Norway, keep Stralsund and yield their claims on Finland? Will this lead to conflict?
Will Prussia recieve the Rhine-Palatinate and congress poland? WIll this lead to conflict?
Will Austria recieve Veneto, Treviso and Lombardia?

Not having to focus on France, to where will the Russian ambitions point them? Northern Scandinavia? The Balkans? Who will oppose and who will stop them?

What will happen in Spain?

Will the Mexican Revolution take place and will Spain be able to pull in soldiers (Monroe doctrine again)? Will Simón Bolivar establish Gran Colombia? Will Chile, Argentina and Peru succeed? Will Spain stop them? Will the British help in order to not to give some americans ideas?
If successful, will other European nations step in to conquer them? Will they succeed?

With George the 4th not being mad, will this affect the line of succession? Will Victoria end up with the crown, thus leading to Hannover leaving British sphere of influence and drifting to Prussian instead?

Will the Dutch-Belgian war take place? Who will support who then?

Will the British allow the american marine/navy to crush the barbary pirates? Will thy do it themselves. Will someone else?

With Hannover possibly not being Prussian, the palatinate not having been handed over and Austria possibly still being the emperors. How will the situation in germany change?
If the german states still remain many and small, how will the liberal revolutions affect them? Will the Frankfurt congress be succesful and a german republic be established to oppose Prussia and Austria?
How will the liberal revolutions affect France? Austria? Great Britain? UBS?

With New France possibly remaining french/free. How will this affect the manifest destiny and the spread east? Will it be malcontents with the Brits that leaves? Propping up their own states that does not join the UBS? Or will British rule spread inland?
How will this affect the locals? The Sioux? The Apache?
What will happen in the Texan-Mexican war? Will UBS and Britain side with Texas or will they let it be gobbled up by the Mexican empire?
Will the mormon nation of Deseret be set up in Utah? Will they be intrested in joining the UBS?

How will the American Civil War fare? The conflict between the southern slave owners and the northern abolitionists? Which side will recieve the support of the crown? Will the other side try to fight for indepence? Which side will win? What repercussions will this have in Britain?

Will France support Egypt against the Ottomans? Will the British support the Ottomans? Will this lead to egypt handing Syria and the Levant back to the Ottomans?

Will the British support the Ottomans against Russia in the crimean war? Will Russia perhaps have set it's sights elsewhere? Will France stand on the same side?

Will Perry and the Black Ships force Japan to end it's isolation? Will the rest of Europe allow Britain to have a monopoly in japanese goods?

Will the British allow american influence to spread in the "north"-central Pacific or will they want to focus on their areas. Will this mean the pacific isles becomes japanese instead?

How will the Opium wars fare? The Indian wars? The wars against Burma? How will this be recieved in the Americas?

Will the Americas face the mass immigration seeing that it is now British and not "the land of the free"?

Will the british purposefully hold back american industry to support industry on their home soil, like they did with the rest of the colonies?

How will the Irish situation change if loads of irishmen do not emigrate to the americas (since it'd be more of the same)? Will there be a revolution? Will it be succesful?

How will Africa be divided? Will it be decided the same way by the same nations?

Will Bismarck be as succesful? Will the german empire be created?

Who funds the Panama and Suez canals? Who controls them? Will they even be built?

Will the situation in egypt lead to the circumstances that led to the French-British alliance? WIll it lead to war or tensions instead? Will that means Bismarck succesfully manage to ally with the British, his first choice?
Does that mean that the world will consist of the central powers (Germany, Italy, Austria and UK) and the entente (Russia, France, Ottomans?, Japan?, Mexico?)?

That's all I can think of on the fly. I probably missed a lot.
That was just the big stuff as well. Who knows what all the small things like parlamentary composition in a specific year could lead to.

Ahhh GAh, you wonderfully insightful woman! Thank you..

As for Washington becoming Prime Minister, yes, it is rather unlikely, however he actually rose quite swiftly to power and fame in the first year of the war of Independance and that was the only basis for which I chose him, truly. I may reconsider.

Holy smokes, Gahalla.

Anaei/Marilissia/Vezullia wrote:Ahhh GAh, you wonderfully insightful woman! Thank you..

As for Washington becoming Prime Minister, yes, it is rather unlikely, however he actually rose quite swiftly to power and fame in the first year of the war of Independance and that was the only basis for which I chose him, truly. I may reconsider.

My suggestion? Look up who actually was the leader of the american whigs (yep, they existed) at the time. Choose him. Or one of the ones at the signing of the declaration of independence.

However, do note that both Jefferson and Adams, while tempting (and brilliant statesmen) where staunchly republican. They even founded the republican party. So they'd be unlikely choices.

EDIT: oops... turns out the american whigs and the republicans were the same party. My mistake.

Being that the war of independance was in the later 1770's... i have a simple question.

how would this alternate set of events effect the Napoleonic wars?

it is rather possible that it could have a knock on effect and somehow Cause Germany, austria, italy and russia to be part of a French empire.

or the french may not of had a revolution themselves, and Remained a monarchy.

Well imo, britain had only a small role in the napoleonic wars, and were mainly bankrolling the coalitions.

Napoleon like any other frenchmen just wanted to kick some english butt, which was the reason for the trade embargo amongst the french empire.

since there were no brits at austerlitz, there were no brits at Jena or Auerstadt, There were no brits during the russian invasion, There were no brits at Leipzig.

the british theatre of operations was the peninsula, and by all accounts(bar british historians) that was rather minor. compared to the scope of the previous mentioned battles and the invasion of Russia. Though it did give rise to the term guerilla warfare, and showed its effectiveness.

So if napoleon would have risen to power, not much would be affected i believe.

but the question is would he have come to power? to which gahalla has posed a few interresting questions already.

Amaryl wrote:Well imo, britain had only a small role in the napoleonic wars, and were mainly bankrolling the coalitions.

Napoleon like any other frenchmen just wanted to kick some english butt, which was the reason for the trade embargo amongst the french empire.

since there were no brits at austerlitz, there were no brits at Jena or Auerstadt, There were no brits during the russian invasion, There were no brits at Leipzig.

the british theatre of operations was the peninsula, and by all accounts(bar british historians) that was rather minor. compared to the scope of the previous mentioned battles and the invasion of Russia. Though it did give rise to the term guerilla warfare, and showed its effectiveness.

So if napoleon would have risen to power, not much would be affected i believe.

but the question is would he have come to power? to which gahalla has posed a few interresting questions already.

more likely a Georgian king would be percieved as a british napoleon and everyone turns on him!

Anaei/Marilissia/Vezullia wrote:So as some of you may know I study English and Drama joint honours.. I hope to go on and teach! However, history has always been a passion of mine, we have been tasked with creative writing, a relatively short story based on whatever we want. I am a stout Royalist and wish to view the world in an alternate way.

I wish to set the story in the time of King George V (1912), however within my story my tweak to the timeline is simply that King George III did not suffer from such vile mental and physical illness therefore having the clarity of mind to reconsider his view on taxation when the Americans met the British with force . He offered them a parliament in 1776, only one year into the American Civil War to govern taxes within the colonies in return for continued unity. Agreeing the Americans swore their alleigance and took up Parliament in Philadelphia with George Washington as it's first Prime Minister founded the American Whig party and lead the Americans from their transition of thirteen colonies into the United British States. After these events, George IV was crowned "George the Fourth, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, the United British States and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith."
Danke!

Darn it! Just a part of history my knowledge of is limited for my doing! I will however concentrate on what was historically the early American Republic, but is now the United British States... As a staunch republican, my dear royalist, that is a sickening thought!

I'm assuming the Founding Fathers survived and weren't executed. Let me start with something simple then: Washington DC, will it be founded? If not, how will the financial situation of the UBS be? The location of Washington was one of the compromises which was vital in securing Hamilton's financial view of the US. It's exclusion should have broad repercussion on financial policies. This is, of course, also assuming the UBS gets a position like Canada and Australia do today.

What of the so-called "Whig Principles"? Their primal source was an obsessive suspicion of central power which ruled from far-away places (this was also used to discredit English Parliament and the English Monarch). What happens to this primal source? Is it forgotten? If so, what happens to the Hamilton/Jefferson rivalry? Will the UBS be governed along more Hamiltonian principles or along Jeffersonian principles? (at least during the early years)

I also hope you are not working under the idea that the Early Republic of the United States (and as such the Thirteen Colonies) were a movement who owed their loyalty to the Continental Congress/Federal Congress. A prominent Virginian, Jefferson I think it was (Could be anyone from the Virginian dynasty really) was accused of betraying, which is perhaps too strong a word, 'his country'. This country was not the United States, it was Virginia.

What of slavery?Was slave trade guaranteed in the Constitution for 20 years (as it was) or is it different? Was it brought before Congress in the 1790s (or earlier in the alternate history case) by a delegation of Quakers (to abolish slave trade, more specifically) and did the Southerners (James Jackson in particular) denounce it as they did? Was it capable of tearing the young nation apart as it was during the Early Republic?

That'd be all for now.

EDIT: Oh, did States threaten to secede in the beginning as they did in the Early Republic? Were there secessionist movements of which the Congressmen were aware? If so, would they act in a much different manner than they did in the Early Republic?

Thank you SO much everyone for all of your support. THis is all more than enough to go on, ironically all of this stuff is set two hundred years before my story even starts! I will although focus on alot brought up here, namely slavery. Britain was actually first to abolish the trade between the UK and the US, and I want to look into how this would effect the South-North divide. However, the thirteen colonies do not account for the entire US, and i'll be shaping my story around a world where the true largest countries don't include the 50 united states but a country of thirteen. However I would like to look into the fact that due to the states and who owned what (england, france and spain) I will definately look into war on the continent. Perhaps setting back true innovation of technology etc.. EIther way I thank you! And will let you know how i get on!

Alright Anaei! Good luck and if you want to read up on the early republic I suggest reading "Founding brothers: The revolutionary generation". While I've only read 50 pages as of yet it documents the beginning of the US quite well and also shows more than a little bit about the problem (and enormous threat) slavery posed to the unity of the United States of America.

Who knows, might be useful for your story to read

And just because I like to nitpick, Gahalla, I'd like to correct you on one thing. Jefferson did not found the Republican party. Jefferson was one of the founders of the Democratic-Republican party. It's minor but I felt like pointing it out anyway!

Anaei/Marilissia/Vezullia wrote: I am a stout Royalist

Anaei I could not continue reading after that my friend.
The topic however is always intresting. I like to ponder what the world would have looked like if that old man did'nt buy the rights to that hamburger resturant by that young couple, McDonalds.