s0 i lik herd...(Warhammer spam/discussion) - Now with Codex: Grey Knight updates!

Archal/Hazrah/Vaneyk wrote:Starcraft is a mediocre Age of Empires ripoff.

Merandil wrote:The Zerg weren't as much inspired by the Tyranids as the modern Tyranid designs were inspired by the Zerg. Look up the old Tyranid lore and models from Space Hulk and early 40k editions.

The Zerg were always wholly organic, all-consuming beasties whereas the initial Tyranids were simply insecto-reptilian aliens that used armour and guns like everyone else and whose behaviour was mostly based off of the Xenomorphs from the Alien movies.

Lini wrote:Modern Tyranid design may owe something to Blizzard's Zerg, but lore-wise the Zerg are an almost carbon-copy of Tyranids.

Merandil wrote:The first time I ever saw a Tyranid Codex was in 3rd Ed (and at that, somewhere around 2002), so I can't confirm or deny your claims on any facts, but I'll assume what you're saying is accurate.

Lini wrote:Modern Tyranid design may owe something to Blizzard's Zerg, but lore-wise the Zerg are an almost carbon-copy of Tyranids.

This is the only point you make I take issue with. Like with the Eldar and Protoss they're not even expies of one-another much less copies, especially considering that 2nd Ed 'nids weren't around for that long to begin with. Again, Space Hulk stuff, mid-80's. Actual planet-devouring beasties, 90's, and I still have my doubts as to just when they started being planet-devouring.

Ultimately my own argument is undermined somewhat by the fact that WarCraft itself was originally a Warhammer game, and Blizzard aren't famous for their stellar (no pun intended) originality. It could just be me, but as far as I see it, 'Nids were retconned into being more Zerg-like over 3rd and 4th eds, right down to the gaunts - admittedly I don't know when Hormagaunts came into the picture.

Starship Troopers takes place in the midst of an interstellar war between the Terran Federation of Earth and the Arachnids (referred to as "The Bugs") of Klendathu. It is narrated as a series of flashbacks by Juan Rico, and is one of only a few Heinlein novels set out in this fashion.[11] The novel opens with Rico aboard the corvette Rodger Young, about to embark on a raid against the planet of the "Skinnies," who are allies of the Arachnids. We learn that he is a cap(sule) trooper in the Terran Federation's Mobile Infantry. The raid itself, one of the few instances of actual combat in the novel, is relatively brief: the Mobile Infantry land on the planet, destroy their targets, and retreat, suffering a single casualty in the process.

The story then flashes back to Rico's graduation from high school, and his decision to sign up for Federal Service over the objections of his father. This is the only chapter that describes Rico's civilian life, and most of it is spent on the monologues of two people: retired Lt. Col. Jean V. Dubois, Rico's school instructor in "History and Moral Philosophy," and Fleet Sergeant Ho, a recruiter for the armed forces of the Terran Federation.

Dubois serves as a stand-in for Heinlein throughout the novel, and delivers what is probably the book's most famous soliloquy on violence, and how it "has settled more issues in history than has any other factor."[12] Fleet Sergeant Ho's monologues examine the nature of military service, and his anti-military tirades appear in the book primarily as a contrast with Dubois. (It is later revealed that his rants are calculated to scare off the weaker applicants).

Interspersed throughout the book are other flashbacks to Rico's high school History and Moral Philosophy course, which describe how in the Terran Federation of Rico's day, the rights of a full Citizen (to vote, and hold public office) must be earned through some form of volunteer "military" service. Those residents who have not exercised their right to perform this Federal Service retain the other rights generally associated with a modern democracy (free speech, assembly, etc.), but they cannot vote or hold public office. This structure arose ad hoc after the collapse of the 20th century Western democracies, brought on by both social failures at home and military defeat by the Chinese Hegemony overseas (assumed looking forward into the late 20th century from the time the novel was written in the late 1950s).[13]

In the next section of the novel Rico goes to boot camp at Camp Currie, on the northern prairies. Five chapters are spent exploring Rico's experience entering the service under the training of his instructor, Career Ship's Sergeant Charles Zim. Camp Currie is so rigorous that less than ten percent of the recruits finish basic training; the rest either resign, are expelled, or die in training. One of the chapters deals with Ted Hendrick, a fellow recruit and constant complainer who is flogged and expelled for striking a superior officer. Another recruit, a deserter who committed a heinous crime while AWOL, is hanged by his battalion. Rico himself is flogged for poor handling of (simulated) nuclear weapons during a drill; despite these experiences he eventually graduates and is assigned to a unit.

At some point during Rico's training, the 'Bug War' has begun to brew, and Rico finds himself taking part in combat operations. The war "officially" starts with an Arachnid attack that annihilates the city of Buenos Aires, although Rico makes it clear that prior to the attack there were plenty of "'incidents,' 'patrols,' or 'police actions.'"[14] Rico briefly describes the Terran Federation's loss at the Battle of Klendathu where his unit is decimated and his ship destroyed. Following Klendathu, the Terran Federation is reduced to making hit-and-run raids similar to the one described at the beginning of the novel (which, chronologically would be placed between Chapters 10 and 11). Rico meanwhile finds himself posted to Rasczak's Roughnecks, named after Lieutenant Rasczak (his first name is never given). This part of the book focuses on the daily routine of military life, as well as the relationship between officers and non-commissioned officers, personified in this case by Rasczak and Sergeant Jelal.

Eventually, Rico decides to become a career soldier and attends Officer Candidate School, which turns out to be just like boot camp, only "squared and cubed with books added."[15] Rico is commissioned a temporary Third Lieutenant as a field-test final exam and commands his own unit during Operation Royalty; eventually he graduates as a Second Lieutenant and full-fledged officer.

The final chapter serves as more of a coda, depicting Rico aboard the Rodger Young as the lieutenant in command of Rico's Roughnecks, preparing to drop to Klendathu as part of a major strike, with his father (having joined the Service earlier in the novel) as his senior sergeant and a Third Lieutenant-in-training of his own under his wing.

The Bugs in the film are portrayed as generally mindless insectoid beings, ruled and organized by an extremely intelligent overmind.

In the novel, it is established that the Bugs have spacecraft, beam weapons and other advanced technology, far from the mindless insects of the movie. The book also describes them as looking like "a madman's conception of a giant, intelligent spider."