Re: [community] In response to the griefer community meeting.

by **Drustai** Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:04 am

Debri wrote:Just a note here.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1161301-So-I-just-got-suspended-for-PvP-labeled-as-griefing?p=17581760#post17581760

... that's pretty retarded that they'd ban someone for that.

by **Muzjhath** Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:19 am

Most likely for "zone disruption" as said in the threat.
Is stated in the realm rules, including for PvP. And to do it with only 60 players there can't really be ANY horde on that server.

by **erwtenpeller** Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:07 am

Righteous ban.

by **Seranita** Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:33 am

*shrugs* they were stupid to seaze oggers for over 24H.. im shure if it had been a 2H long raid then shure,, no problem.. but 24H of disrupting gameplay for nearly 100 other people at least? they got what they deserved me thinks

by **Grufftoof** Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:05 am

What that group did was not PVP. Not really. PVPing is, obviously, killing a player. What they did there was disrupt a zone. Whether the intent was to "grief" isn't something we could "know" I guess. But a GM has a ruleset to follow (whether we like those rules, or even agree they're enforced is another matter....), and that 36 hour stint would I "break the rules".

Like you said Monrena, for a couple of hours, that would be acceptable I guess. More, well... Org isn't just some AHs and such. It's a massive quest Hub for the Horde and it's vital for some quest lines.

I think it's also important to see that the server in question has something like a 20: 1 (Alliance:Horde) ratio...

by **Muzjhath** Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:02 pm

I doubt it'd be possible even on a 5:1 scale server. There'd be enough of the other faction to at least attempt to fight back and remove them every few hours. Setting up a raid in a different city through non /general channels.
I am also fairly sure that on such servers a lot of people would just remove their PvP flag if they wanted to stay in orgrimmar if the aformentioned happened.
Then killing NPCs for over a day can't be classed as nothing else than griefing. Esp when lacking the manpower to take it down.

by **Ara** Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:45 pm

hmmm.... interesting
Anyway How many ppl are in Dun Monrgh or IF activly RPing.Aside from those ohh so wuvable cut-throats

by **Jeanpierre** Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:49 pm

It isn't always possible to do something about it. That's a cold hard reality people have to learn to accept. Just because the rules say you can, doesn't mean you actually have the resources for it.
If people get ganked and camped in the city for 2 hours, then chances are most of them leave the city and go do something else. You'll never get the group needed for it because the resources have already left.

This is what griefers rely on to flaunt their cheap victories in people's faces. "Ohh but you have all the means to put up a fight. It's not us deciding the rules. *shrug* It's the server!".
It's partly true, but a distorted view on the reality that they decided how, when, where, how many. Their tactic relies on discouragement.

So yeah.. Ban them. It's a righteous ban. But for the people who lost their city or find themselves griefed/camped...
Tell me one game where PvP rules or any rules aren't stretched to the limit, far beyond the abuse of other players?
Heck.. in Quake rated games you have people making new accounts to have a day of fun OMGWTFpwning newbs.

In a world this large, it only takes one idiot to find a loophole in the rules to abuse them to his advantage. It doesn't matter whether it's a game or RL. You'll have them everywhere. You'll have to fight them, by changing rules or finding ways to destroy their tactic.

by **Cid** Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:51 pm

Jeanpierre/Inias wrote:You'll have to fight them, by changing rules or finding ways to destroy their tactic.

THIS! This is what I've been trying to do so far. But nobody listens to me... Crying or Very sad

by **Krogon Devilstep** Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:05 pm

Cid wrote:
Jeanpierre/Inias wrote:You'll have to fight them, by changing rules or finding ways to destroy their tactic.

THIS! This is what I've been trying to do so far. But nobody listens to me...

Because it doesnt work.

We fight back, they leave... wait ten minutes, then come back in greater numbers or attacking when the retaliation party appears.

Fighting does nothing, fighting is what they want. the more you fight, the more they come back.

by **Eowale** Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:30 pm

Seiken Lionmane wrote:
We fight back, they leave... wait ten minutes, then come back in greater numbers

"Griefers are easily startled. But they will be back, and in greater numbers."
(Sorry, just had to.)

by **Krogon Devilstep** Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:33 pm

Eowale wrote:
Seiken Lionmane wrote:
We fight back, they leave... wait ten minutes, then come back in greater numbers
"Griefers are easily startled. But they will be back, and in greater numbers."
(Sorry, just had to.)

[community] In response to the griefer community meeting. - Page 2 Sandman_star_wars

by **Jeanpierre** Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:54 pm

Seiken Lionmane wrote:
Cid wrote:
Jeanpierre/Inias wrote:You'll have to fight them, by changing rules or finding ways to destroy their tactic.
THIS! This is what I've been trying to do so far. But nobody listens to me...
Because it doesnt work.
We fight back, they leave... wait ten minutes, then come back in greater numbers or attacking when the retaliation party appears.
Fighting does nothing, fighting is what they want. the more you fight, the more they come back.

For the record, I never said "fighting back" had to be PvP style.

Griefers just seek to be assholes and will go as far as testing the limits of any rules imposed on them just to see how far they can go in their being as jackasses.
"Destroy the tactic" basically evolves around putting them in a corner where they can't be the jackass they want to be. Either change the rules so the limit of what they can do isn't a bother, or do something to mess their tacts up. Implementing PvE realm rules would work. Starving them could work. Kicking their ass could work (But apparently not in the ABoC case).

I'm not saying what they do is fair. On the contrary. But just like -ANY- PvP game, rules of the game are being exploited to be a jackass. Whether it's bunny hopping in HL2, or jump firing shotguns, or lowering your rating to beat up noobs in both Wow or Quake, or outnumbering people 2 to 1 and corpse ganking them, or spawn-farming in BGs, or hacking unprotected servers. People excuse the word "rules" or "tactics" to be a jerk. And there's enough jackasses around the world to serve us all a plate of a misery.

So petition a change of rules, or mechanics, or do something to make them waste all the time in the world without getting anywhere.

by Guest Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:01 pm

Seiken Lionmane wrote:
Eowale wrote:
Seiken Lionmane wrote:
We fight back, they leave... wait ten minutes, then come back in greater numbers
"Griefers are easily startled. But they will be back, and in greater numbers."
(Sorry, just had to.)

that's actually a very apt analogy

by **Cid** Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:05 pm

Seiken/Krogon...

You keep missing the point. JP was rather clear with what he wanted to say (and he made it even more clear for the ones who didn't get it the first time), and you keep going on the same dead end track. If you can't provide anything useful, then you might as well pipe down a bit since your ignorance is starting to bother me quite a bit.

JP, lets PM a bit back and forth about the petition if you'd like.

by **Krogon Devilstep** Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Cid wrote:Seiken/Krogon...

You keep missing the point. JP was rather clear with what he wanted to say (and he made it even more clear for the ones who didn't get it the first time), and you keep going on the same dead end track. If you can't provide anything useful, then you might as well pipe down a bit since your ignorance is starting to bother me quite a bit.

JP, lets PM a bit back and forth about the petition if you'd like.

keep your insults to yourself, your not exactly a font of patience or wordly knowledge on the matter.

you sit in safe zones all day, oblivious to what aBoC are doing to those who choose to use contested zones for RP. KoS spent Three weeks with aBoC turning up every single night in Stromgarde, corpse camping, griefing and being a pain. So i do know what i'm talking about, as my guild has bore the brunt of it, along with the worgen guilds in gilneas. RP became impossible in those zones, because momentum in repelling them couldnt be kept up, nor was it effective.

They avoid a fight they cant win. If superior numbers show up, they get airborne and run... then show up again later once their /who alts confirm the resistance has left, and then they resume their camping. What they do isnt PvP... they dont fight players, they overwhelm them and grief them.

pvp does not work, as they wont and dont pvp, they just -grief-.

As for petitions? its all been tried. i've spoken to Gm's five times, nothing has come of it. and no doubt everyone else has tried just as much. The GM's dont care anymore.

by **Lorainne/Bridlington** Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:18 pm

by **Morgeth** Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:20 pm

For crying out loud, can't you just discuss things without trying to take a shit on each other. Blabla, you ignorant. Blabla, you don't know anything. This here, and this that. I could go on and on, but fucking review how moronic you -sound- before you post.

In other words: Please keep this thread a bit clean and happy.

by **Cid** Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:30 pm

Flamebaiting, Seiken?

You ought to know better than that. I just simply state the fact that you time and again totally MISS THE POINT. JP is NOT talking about PvP, but you miss to read the entirety of his (and anyone elses) posts just to nitpick at details and flame them about it. And about the "patience" and "wordly wisdom"...
So far quite a few others have tried talking reason on these forums, while you shoot at their suggestions with a shotgun for them being better than anything you came up with so far.

Who's the drama-llama here, really?

by **Ledgic** Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:34 pm

Hokay.

To everyone else: Keep up the useful conversation.

Cid/Seiken: Take it to PM's. I don't want to lock this thread because you two can't help but compare the size of your e-testicles.

Just cut it out. It's getting incredibly boring.

by **Krogon Devilstep** Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Ledgic Caan wrote:Hokay.

To everyone else: Keep up the useful conversation.

Cid/Seiken: Take it to PM's. I don't want to lock this thread because you two can't help but compare the size of your e-testicles.

Just cut it out. It's getting incredibly boring.

I never said a word against him, but duelly noted.

by **Raenmar** Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:11 pm

RPing in ghostform using /w or /raid works. It worked for us, at least. Yes, yes, we're dead. But it worked before then. <_<

Not ideal, but it works fine, and they can't kill you so they get bored. It's gotta be better than giving up on your entire RP concept, right?

by **Amaryl** Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:55 pm

roleplaying in a "ghost town" raenmar? *wink wink nudge nudge* if you know what i mean Wink

by **Raenmar** Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:21 pm

/gasp

HERESY!

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