Blizzard 'does' account into Roleplayers

Not really an issue on Defias Brotherhood, but it's nice on seeing such a lengthy post taking roleplayers into account.

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Lore wrote:Patch 7.0 included some server-side changes to the way our cross-realm and sharding technologies work. While these changes were made to improve system and server performance, they inadvertently affected Role Playing realms and communities in a way we did not intend.

We recognize the issue this has caused for the role playing community, and have been hard at work on some improvements to our tech that will allow us to disable it entirely in certain areas on RP servers. In those designated areas, players on RP realms will not be automatically mixed with players from other realms, nor will they be split into multiple “shards”. In other words, if you’re on an RP server, you won’t have trouble finding other people from your realm in these areas, and shouldn’t see very many (if any) players from other realms.

Additionally, it’s worth clarifying that our previous rules which prevented RP realms from being automatically CRZ’ed with non-RP realms have not changed, even outside of these designated areas. However, please be aware that our party-based cross-realm tech is still in place, so if someone from another realm groups up with someone on your realm, you might see them.

We’re currently applying these changes to Stormwind and Orgrimmar, and North American realms should be starting to see their effects. Realms in other regions will pick the changes up with their next restarts. Once we’ve had some time to see how these changes are working out in action, we’ll begin applying them to other common social hubs (such as other capital cities, Elwynn Forest, etc.), with the goal to eventually roll this out to the vast majority of the game world. The only exceptions will be a few very specific locations where sharding is needed to prevent major performance issues, particularly with the upcoming expansion launch.

Again, our goal was never to disrupt the role playing community, and we apologize for any distress or confusion this has caused those players.

Someone please explain what I just read.. (Late night response.)

Indeed, I was quite pleasantly surprised myself how fast they resolved this, rather major, phasing issue.

When you can't see a party member who stands right beside you... something smells.

I am still tempted, though, to write a petition to them, posting it on our realm forums, demanding for some more close interest on GMs part to take place. Guild names, players names, harassment - it all goes unchecked. You need to have a 40 men group to report something at the same time for the "new" system to work.

I would like a petition to get proper rulesets for RP-PvP realms. Not just mash together two existing and contradicting rulesets and hope that will work (which it doesn't), but one proper guideline for all to follow.

Cid wrote:I would like a petition to get proper rulesets for RP-PvP realms. Not just mash together two existing and contradicting rulesets and hope that will work (which it doesn't), but one proper guideline for all to follow.

(my emphasis).

I think they really ought to enforce these rules, not keep them as guidelines.

Think that Pirates of the Caribbean affected my writing a bit, but yeah. What we currently have in terms of such are RP rules and PvP rules on Defias Brotherhood, two conflicting rulesets never meant to be used together to as one. We need a proper ruleset specifically designed for RP-PvP servers. That is what I am trying to say.

Don't think they are gonna redo the rules anytime soon if ever for RP-PvP servers, but feel free to try, you're still gonna need a lot of posts to possibly get a reply out of them.

Cid, do you mind explaining why RP and PVP rule sets conflict eachother? Do you actually know the RP rule set or are you making up your own rules?

Just gonna slip this in here since there is a discussion about it:

Overall policy:

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RP rules / PvP rules:

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No real contradiction as Ixi said. I guess people are still mainly upset they can get killed/ganked/corpsecamped while RPing or atending a RP event. That and people who don't RP on a RP-PvP server, I guess?

Or i'm wrong and people mean something else, who knows.

Thank you siegmund for the links, I'm busy checking them as I write this. It would seem the rules have been changed since last I've read them. While they currently do not contradict one another as I initially stated (out of date intel on my part), they have got even worse for roleplayers it seems.

EDIT:
What I mean with this, is that there seem to be even less protection and rights for roleplayers than ever before. The RP rules these days all seem to regard names only, no rules about griefing RP events or the like. Not even the harassment part of their ruleset mention anything about griefing or similiar poor behaviour.

Griefing is covered in the overall policy which accounts for all servers, you can be griefed as anyone in most manners. RP events and RP kind of accounts into this i'd guess.

I guess in the past you had some mentions like here [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] on some specific RP stuff. (Note sites like gamepedia/wiki and such are not official blizzard sites)

You really need to be specific though what you're not happy about, griefing and poor behaviour is covered in the general part as i've said it applies to all kinds of servers PvE, PvP, RPPvE/PvP and such offenses are reportable.

Is the problem that there is no specific mention that you can't "ruin" RP events or RP on servers with the RP tag? Also what rule(s) would you even put for RP-PvP servers specifically anyway?

You can't really ban PvP actions like killing/camping anyone since that's what people originally wanted the freedom to kill things. But on the other hand you can report people doing silly visual thing like puting toys all over you over and over and over and over... Or being verbally abusive to you, or even technically it seems lead a monster to you in a way that they are not suposed to (Seen it happen, was totaly hilarious though Vol'jin for the win) and even spaming things and similar stuff...

I still don't know what you "mean with this" there isn't any less protection and rights, everyone has those rights plain and simple. I'll act dumb and ask as well what specifically griefs your events and rp or how people harras you or act poorly.

Another useful link to read while I write this!
And you would ask a good question. While I myself am not overly bothered with griefers per se, as I can handle myself in a fight decently, there are others who cannot. Those that tend to walk around and roleplay in ghostform after getting killed and camped hours straight for instance. Yes, there are blueshield zones to hide from 'physical' damage (how physical it can be when it be pixels we talk about), but let us for example take... I don't know, a cultist guild that is based in Duskwood? They are based there because their RP doesn't fit in the blueshield zones, they are too civilized for their RP. Duskwood fits their bill perfectly, but they cannot lose the griefers chasing them.

Some new RP rules could give some help on that table, or at least give some hope for roleplayers to survive on a RP-PvP server. Namerules aside, for both characters and guilds, there ought to be something like... two attacks at most if you spot a party roleplaying in a contested area, more than that will be a reportable thing or something. I do not have the details worked out, that is something for a RP-PvP community to discuss and agree over. I only come with the ideas, although I admit not all of them are good for everyone.
The above example be merely to have a compromise between W-PvP and RP (you are roleplaying in a contested area on a PvP enabled server, you better be prepared to get attacked. But on the other hand, they are roleplaying and this is also an RP server, so let them roleplay after one or two attacks. Maybe they can work it into their storyline, ambush or whatnot).

Again, it is not for me to decide what the rules should be. But we have a very basic concept of how our guild (DRS/TTH/CoKM) behaves in WoW:
We do not attack levellers unless they attack us first.
We do not attack players unless they attack us first.
If we spot a "other faction" guild, RP or otherwise, we ask if they want to organize a fight with us. If they do not wish a fight, we move along to the next one who maybe wants to fight.

Admittedly, this is based upon the concepts of mutual respect for one another, and griefers and gankers aren't exactly renowned for that quality. But I hope you'll see where I'm going with this.

Not the first time i've heard such thinking, but I belive it to be flawed.

If you end up putting in such rules one might as well just turn it into a RP-PvE server and save the truble of even trying to wrap their head about how to regulate and control such things.

You can't really compromise freedom. If people want improvement and better chances of survival on such a server they need to work for it themselves.

I see what you mean. Oh well, it was worth a try.

Blizzard's stance has always been that PVP is always allowed in PVP enabled zones and there is nothing that can possibly protect you from it, except for ingame obstacles (other players, NPC guards, etc etc) and that is as it should be.

If you want to bring RP into it, look at it this way: Cultists that aren't strong enough to fight horde forces shouldn't be in Duskwood while horde forces are roaming there. For all intents and purposes, while a sizable horde force is roaming around Duskwood, consider it an active battlefield. Would you have your secret cult meetings in the middle of an active battlefield? If you would, you're stupid.

Even if they aren't RPing, you are, and their characters exist in the game. RP-PVP servers are meant for that playstyle. Not for the borderline carebear mindset that's grown on Defias Brotherhood since the Goon Squad and ABOC came around. Remember back in the day when like 90% of the RP guilds on the server had guild policies that required you to have /pvp on at all times? I remember being required to have PVP on even as a low level while horde were around, and one time my level 30 something warrior got camped in the Stormwind park by Gharb and some other rogue I forgot the name of; there was no escaping the PVP. If there were enemies around, you had to outsmart them, overpower them, or retreat. It wasn't "An RP server where you can engage in PVP". It was an RP-PVP server. I.e. roleplay governed by the PVP ruleset.

So no. Blizzard is right to enforce the "PVP is not harrasment except in extreme cases" policy. If you're not happy to be attacked whenever and for however long you venture into contested zones, you should move to Argent Dawn.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a die hard PVPer, case in point me moving to Argent Dawn more than a year ago)

Thank you for bringing clarity in that. And no, while I have been playing on DB for a while, I do not recall 90% of the guilds doing such (Burgen/Vardrek tried at some point to order me to turn it on, but me being the noob back then I didn't know how to do that, nor did I find a valid reason as to why I would turn it on).
But you are right. I even recall some of my own writing around this forum, now that I think of it properly, saying something about this being an RP-PvP server and that people ought to be prepared or something. Don't know where it is now though, but seemingly my sentiment has changed over the years to that of a carebear. Might be needed of me to change back, even if the basic guildrules of CoKM will stick around.

You've just not played wow early enough to know, nothing wrong with that. Even I haven't. I mainly found out from Vardrek and other people how some things operated in the past.

The dwarven rifle squad, which turned into the Three hammers had the PvP always on rule, but removed it at some point. DoL is one RP guild which still upholds the rule for instance, belive Hourse of yore adopted such a rule too.

Basically from what I understand the point of it was to always keep you on your toes and discourage blueshielding entirely, you don't have anywhere to run but gives you more incentive to band together.

I get it, that's quite clever actually. Perhaps instead of trying to turn PvP off on an RP-PvP server, it is a better idea to turn PvP on everywhere. We have to remember that in the end of the day Defias Brotherhood is a RP-PvP realm. Not an RP only realm, or a PvP only realm. Its both put together in a massive, confusing server for lots of weird people. I think the problem we have these days is that most people either are tired of PvP or doesn't want to involve themselves with it.

To which I say, tough shit. When you step out of that door outside you have a chance of dying as well but you still do it. Its the same in WoW, there is a war going on between the two factions and hostile creatures that would love to nibble at your marrow. When you step outside of the gate your meant to feel unsafe because it is a big and scary world out there.

You might say, "But Pip! Dying over and over again ruins my roleplay, they are not really roleplayers and don't ask for my permission to kill me!"
No of course they don't ask permission, don't be an idiot they are still pvpers that jerks off on the sight of your corpse. But instead of acting like it never happened and running home to your dare blue shielded area try asking help from some of the guilds OOC to beat the shit out of them!

Then instead of acting like it never happened you could say that you came across a Warband and had to run away, getting a few wounds from it and a story to tell later.

I'm sure I'm just ranting at this point though. Perhaps all we really need is a guild of PvPers that can defend people should they be attacked.
The fact that there is no PvP gear next expansion gotta give you a hard on though!

It's a shame that most people see things in absolutes in this regard i.e. reroll AD.
I used to be infuriated with non-roleplayers attacking events for the sole purpose of having a laugh, but I've since then come around to appreciate the marriage between the two aspects I favor in the game (RP and PVP).
It's mostly a mindset I think, one that can be changed for the better at that.

As for the OP. I think that Blizzard actually cherishes the RP community far more than we realize, because it is the most loyal and dedicated group of people that has ever graced WoW. Just a shame they aren't willing to dedicate any resources to improve every roleplayer's experience. I guess that goes for PvP as well, although on a far less prominent scale. With PvP they are at least trying. Imagine if RP and PvP got the same attention as their prodigal son, PvE.

Though I can't help, but wonder if they would've acted as promptly had it not been for the massive support we got. Wasn't only roleplayers that were pissed off by this after all.