Garrosh for warchief!

Mike wrote:Pff... Thrall nor Garrosh should be on that big spiny throne. King Magni Bronzebeard as world leader and Gelbin Mekkatorque as General.

Magni didn't even want his throne, why would he want Thrall's?

In my honest opinion, I think most hordies proably dislike Thrall more then Garrosh.

Garrosh can promise, Bloodshed, Vengence, a chance to destroy the Alliance.

Thrall represents a held blade, a gentle hand and thinking before acting. 

If I was a blood thirsty orc, or a power-hungry Forsaken. I dout I'd like thrall's constant attempts stop a good old rough and tumble.

Anaei/Vezullia wrote:

Mike wrote:Pff... Thrall nor Garrosh should be on that big spiny throne. King Magni Bronzebeard as world leader and Gelbin Mekkatorque as General.

Magni didn't even want his throne, why would he want Thrall's?

Have you seen how much more badass thralls Throne looks?

Silly waste of air.

Madel/Vectoria wrote:In my honest opinion, I think most hordies proably dislike Thrall more then Garrosh.

Garrosh can promise, Bloodshed, Vengence, a chance to destroy the Alliance.

Thrall represents a held blade, a gentle hand and thinking before acting. 

If I was a blood thirsty orc, or a power-hungry Forsaken. I dout I'd like thrall's constant attempts stop a good old rough and tumble.

I'd actually go out on a silly madeup on the spot statistics here and say that a majority (small but still) of the orcs I know ICly are not bloodthirsty beast. They're a bit violent at times and can appriciate a good brawl or fight if someone accuses their honour. But bloodthirsty they are not. Also, Thrall = Proven great warrior, shaman and leader. Garrosh = Uppstart youngling who's not really seen much of the pet cause he addopted and hardly understands. Nor really proven that much in combat.

Garrosh is actually older then Thrall.
And name me an orc who has any respect for the Alliance besides Thrall?
The Horde have had plently of assaults from the alliance and you would be pushed to find one savage who hasen't lost something to them.

Thrall feels like abit of a lion tamer, loosing his grasp on that whip.

Madel/Vectoria wrote:Garrosh is actually older then Thrall.
And name me an orc who has any respect for the Alliance besides Thrall?
The Horde have had plently of assaults from the alliance and you would be pushed to find one savage who hasen't lost something to them.

Thrall feels like abit of a lion tamer, loosing his grasp on that whip.

Saurfang the Elder.

Anaei/Vezullia wrote:

Madel/Vectoria wrote:Garrosh is actually older then Thrall.
And name me an orc who has any respect for the Alliance besides Thrall?
The Horde have had plently of assaults from the alliance and you would be pushed to find one savage who hasen't lost something to them.

Thrall feels like abit of a lion tamer, loosing his grasp on that whip.

Saurfang the Elder.

...name me four!

Madel/Vectoria wrote:

Anaei/Vezullia wrote:

Madel/Vectoria wrote:Garrosh is actually older then Thrall.
And name me an orc who has any respect for the Alliance besides Thrall?
The Horde have had plently of assaults from the alliance and you would be pushed to find one savage who hasen't lost something to them.

Thrall feels like abit of a lion tamer, loosing his grasp on that whip.

Saurfang the Elder.

...name me four!

Saurfang the Younger
Etrigg
Broxigar
Garona Halforcen

http://www.wowwiki.com/Eitrigg too.

Bitch beat me too it.

Garona shouldn't really count. :3

Now this topic inspires me to write a serious analysis on the politics of the orcs the way I imagine it...

Thrall is a hero to all orcs, no question about that. He reunited them with their roots and ancestors, he liberated them from human captivity, he led them across the sea to their glorious new home, saved Grom and defeated first Mannoroth and then the entire Burning Legion ( I easily imagine the orcs giving him the most credit, then the elves and the humans last, if at all).
Having proven to be a skilled commander, a mighty shaman, an excellent warrior and a true savior of them all. He is the orc that gave them their home, their spirit and most importantly... their pride back. And for this they will honour and praise him forever.

Now, however, Thrall leads his people with policies of peace, growth, understanding and trade. He tries to make them settle, establish farms and trade with their neighbours. To make them nurture and grow their nation and home like a plant, arms in arms with their friends and brothers the trolls and the tauren. He wants them to live in the land, in peace, raise families, worship their ancestors and slowly become a respectable nation that deals peacefully with all others.

In a way... he wants the orcs to become human.

The orcs sees his policies, and understands that they are good ones... and then they look upon the world. They see centaurs harassing the barrens settlements. Dwarves digging up the earth whereever they please. Goblins that pillage in the name of profit. Elves that hunt and try to kill all of them who venture into the forests for wood. Demons that remain, killing what crosses their path and corrupting the world. Undead who threaten to destroy them all.

And worst of all: humanity, with Stormwind in the lead, seething with rage, unsolved grudges and a nigh desperate need for justice (ie. they want to see the orcs pay for every dead human).

And the orcs fear this world. They see a huge threat to them, every last one of them and look to Thrall and find no comfort in his policies. He wants them to endure it, suffer every threat and stroke as they build their home. He is a hero, but they feel he cannot protect them.

Enter the warsong clan. They promise a policy of glory and victory, of fantastic battles and heroes made. A chance to quickly end all threats and usher the orcs in a era of prosperity. A chance for all orcs to feel strong, respected and above all safe. And most important of all, like the Thrall faction, they can present a hero: Garrosh Hellscream.

He has the blood of Grommash, the orc which even Thrall hails as the formost of them all. He has the experience of having led the Mag'har (first as commander, then for a short period as acting chieftain). The only orc besides Thrall which every one of them know they name of (only the surname really, but that is irrelevant). And in the northrend campaign he proved that not only can he lead soldiers, but he can lead them to victory once more.

Where Thrall is the saviour, Garrosh is the uncorrupted
Where Thrall is the shaman, Garrosh is the general
Where Thrall is wise, Garrosh is strong

And what the orcs want the most, is a strong leader that can protect them.

Just like Thrall Garrosh unites the orcs through a strugge and a war. Just like Thrall he raises the banner high against the threat of humanity. Just like Thrall he will give them their pride back and lead them to glorious victory.

The warsong clan might be there in the sidelines, steering Garrosh and affecting the future of the horde. But was it not the same with Thrall and that human, Jaina Proudmoore? Did they not too confer in secret before Thrall made many decisions? Why should Garrosh be judged when Thrall was not? And at least Garrosh listens to orcs.

But what of Saurfang? Is he not too famous, well liked and strong? Yes, he is. He is a grand general, a true veteran, a orc who has stood by them in all years, seen all mistakes and is the leader of Thrall's supporters and the Kor'Kron. And there it is, the crutch. Saurfang isn't seen by the man he is, but by the man he supports.

He is Thrall's friend, advisor and general. He might be strong and wise, but he is overshadowed by his friend. He is seen as the same, a symbol of Thralls party... but he is not Thrall. He is not the saviour. Maybe he could have a chance if Thrall was dead... but Thrall isn't dead and thus the orcs will never choose Saurfang.

Ultimately when the world is dark and scary, you can either suffer it and slowly see as dawn breaks. Or you could drown yours fears and sorrows and get drunk. Which is what the orcs are doing as a collective, getting drunk on glory. They aren't choosing the "right" path but the easy one. The fantastic one.

I see their fear, their hopes and their needs. I see them make the mistakes they think will give them this. To choose their path not out of a rational decision of which is best but a emotional decision of what feels right.

Ultimately, the orcs are just being human. And that's what I like about them.

Gahalla has done it again. Bravo. NO! Brava.

Gahalla seem's to have it almost by the balls.
But I'd say not all orcs disagree with Thrall. I'd say a fair deal of the older orcs who've survived would agree with him.
Most of Garrosh's popularity seem to be pictured from the young orcs seeking glory for themselfs. Who think that they can only get it through war and battle.

Marogg wrote:Gahalla seem's to have it almost by the balls.
But I'd say not all orcs disagree with Thrall. I'd say a fair deal of the older orcs who've survived would agree with him.
Most of Garrosh's popularity seem to be pictured from the young orcs seeking glory for themselfs. Who think that they can only get it through war and battle.

You are completely correct. The way I see it there's two competing main political entities. Thrall's faction (with Saurfang being the most prominent member) and the Warsong Clan. Beyond this we'll have a number of smaller factions (like the shattered hand, who hates Thrall or Frostwolves, who are kin to Thrall) that are either neutral or sides with one of those (or tries and fails to get their own niche). Then we have the vast majority of orcs, who have no "official" affiliation and sides with whoever impresses them the most (or neither).

The older orcs you're thinking of will to an extent be in Thrall''s faction or supporting it.

Mind, many old veterans will also realise that they have the best chance of making a career in Garrosh's faction. He'll not be choosing young generals after all, but experienced ones. Weaponsmiths, arena trainers, metalurgeons, logisticians, quartermasters, woodworkers, engineers (siege-engineers and makers of fortifications that is. Not the ones building tech) will also have a advantage with Garrosh (since he needs them). Many of those will likely side with Garrosh simply because it puts more food on the table (ie. more money in the pocket). But yes, not all of them.

Communist propaganda. Garrosh acts in the best interest of all orcs, and they know it.

McCarthy will look into this matter

Gnash wrote:Communist propaganda. Garrosh acts in the best interest of all orcs, and they know it.

McCarthy will look into this matter

That's it send in a human. Typical cactus.

Garrosh is perhaps slightly more "bloodthirsty" than the avarage orc.
But that's a blood thing.

And orcs, even before the corruption and legion -always- were a warrior race.

Garrosh, I also don't lack belief of combat capability, Moragg.
I can't say why Mag'Har would have a problem with humans, or Alliance.

But I think it's the fact they're ,or have been, attacked for what the other orcs did to the humans in their world.

Alliance come here and see more orcs? A never ending circle starting hatred.
Garrosh seems to have for some reason adapted it alot. And I am sure he got alot of the orcish community with him. As mentioned, many orcs lost something to the Alliance, that can build hate.

Garrosh is fighting for this. Surely people would join him?
Then again, he's not too bright or wise, may be a good general, tactical war commander. But less so a leader. (See Vol'Jin conflict.)

This is an era of war, that's were men like Garrosh fits in and do rather good despite not being too good or best.


And I mean. I know you -all- miss Warcraft I and II. Some old fashion Horde vs. Alliance for real! ;p

This is just the kind of thing happening that makes me want to play an orc. War!

http://www.wow.com/2010/03/27/know-your-lore-current-horde-politics-the-orcs/
explains it all splendidly imho.

But talking about politics. I liek heard you can't do groceries in SW. What has Varian done about safety? And then I'm not even starting to mention the beggar in Trade district, obviously social services are medieval in SW! Owait...

I actually have resolved this change is.. not so welcome but welcome enough.

Garrosh is a warchief, Thrall is more of a Chieftain. If you get the difference. One is strong, the other is wise. However, I feel that Garrosh's exclusion of the races will be a major concern.. Especially since his slaughtering of Cairne is honourable, he may reconsile (which apparently he does) then re-include and apologise to Vol'jin. Vol'jin was Thrall's right hand, and Garrosh must remember Thrall will be back and has more loyalty. He's like the Orcish Moses tbh.

the new next warchief should be this guy

You just tore a hole in my heart and poured salt into it.

Kozgugore Feraleye wrote:You just tore a hole in my heart and poured salt into it.

Me?!

This guy for Warchief!

This guy for more warchief.