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Garrosh, Son of Grom; Warchief of the Horde?

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Gahalla
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Post by Magaskawee/Anaei Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:47 am

As I research the new Warchief's role in Cataclysm more and more, I come to my own conclusions that he is in place for the Alliance to hate and the Horde to follow. But this is just lore and mechanics wise. What do you think about Garrosh's placing as the new Warchief? It's already caused the death of Cairne! Do you think this -is- temporary? Or has Thrall truly stepped aside forever? I'd like to hear genuine opinions on Garrosh's leadership and perhaps who you think would be better suited to lead the Horde?
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Post by Saevir Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:41 am

I voted for the Basic Campfire.
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Post by Gahalla Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:33 am

I think that the analysis I made a while back about this is appropriate, so I dig it up:
Now this topic inspires me to write a serious analysis on the politics of the orcs the way I imagine it...

Thrall is a hero to all orcs, no question about that. He reunited them with their roots and ancestors, he liberated them from human captivity, he led them across the sea to their glorious new home, saved Grom and defeated first Mannoroth and then the entire Burning Legion ( I easily imagine the orcs giving him the most credit, then the elves and the humans last, if at all).
Having proven to be a skilled commander, a mighty shaman, an excellent warrior and a true savior of them all. He is the orc that gave them their home, their spirit and most importantly... their pride back. And for this they will honour and praise him forever.

Now, however, Thrall leads his people with policies of peace, growth, understanding and trade. He tries to make them settle, establish farms and trade with their neighbours. To make them nurture and grow their nation and home like a plant, arms in arms with their friends and brothers the trolls and the tauren. He wants them to live in the land, in peace, raise families, worship their ancestors and slowly become a respectable nation that deals peacefully with all others.

In a way... he wants the orcs to become human.

The orcs sees his policies, and understands that they are good ones... and then they look upon the world. They see centaurs harassing the barrens settlements. Dwarves digging up the earth whereever they please. Goblins that pillage in the name of profit. Elves that hunt and try to kill all of them who venture into the forests for wood. Demons that remain, killing what crosses their path and corrupting the world. Undead who threaten to destroy them all.

And worst of all: humanity, with Stormwind in the lead, seething with rage, unsolved grudges and a nigh desperate need for justice (ie. they want to see the orcs pay for every dead human).

And the orcs fear this world. They see a huge threat to them, every last one of them and look to Thrall and find no comfort in his policies. He wants them to endure it, suffer every threat and stroke as they build their home. He is a hero, but they feel he cannot protect them.

Enter the warsong clan. They promise a policy of glory and victory, of fantastic battles and heroes made. A chance to quickly end all threats and usher the orcs in a era of prosperity. A chance for all orcs to feel strong, respected and above all safe. And most important of all, like the Thrall faction, they can present a hero: Garrosh Hellscream.

He has the blood of Grommash, the orc which even Thrall hails as the formost of them all. He has the experience of having led the Mag'har (first as commander, then for a short period as acting chieftain). The only orc besides Thrall which every one of them know they name of (only the surname really, but that is irrelevant). And in the northrend campaign he proved that not only can he lead soldiers, but he can lead them to victory once more.

Where Thrall is the saviour, Garrosh is the uncorrupted
Where Thrall is the shaman, Garrosh is the general
Where Thrall is wise, Garrosh is strong

And what the orcs want the most, is a strong leader that can protect them.

Just like Thrall Garrosh unites the orcs through a strugge and a war. Just like Thrall he raises the banner high against the threat of humanity. Just like Thrall he will give them their pride back and lead them to glorious victory.

The warsong clan might be there in the sidelines, steering Garrosh and affecting the future of the horde. But was it not the same with Thrall and that human, Jaina Proudmoore? Did they not too confer in secret before Thrall made many decisions? Why should Garrosh be judged when Thrall was not? And at least Garrosh listens to orcs.

But what of Saurfang? Is he not too famous, well liked and strong? Yes, he is. He is a grand general, a true veteran, a orc who has stood by them in all years, seen all mistakes and is the leader of Thrall's supporters and the Kor'Kron. And there it is, the crutch. Saurfang isn't seen by the man he is, but by the man he supports.

He is Thrall's friend, advisor and general. He might be strong and wise, but he is overshadowed by his friend. He is seen as the same, a symbol of Thralls party... but he is not Thrall. He is not the saviour. Maybe he could have a chance if Thrall was dead... but Thrall isn't dead and thus the orcs will never choose Saurfang.

Ultimately when the world is dark and scary, you can either suffer it and slowly see as dawn breaks. Or you could drown yours fears and sorrows and get drunk. Which is what the orcs are doing as a collective, getting drunk on glory. They aren't choosing the "right" path but the easy one. The fantastic one.

I see their fear, their hopes and their needs. I see them make the mistakes they think will give them this. To choose their path not out of a rational decision of which is best but a emotional decision of what feels right.

Ultimately, the orcs are just being human. And that's what I like about them.

In my view, Thrall stepped aside for two reasons. Partly due to story and partly due to the changing political situation. The former is two-pronged, since they want to turn the horde into a more belligrient faction they need a more war-inclined leader (Garrosh) and also protect good old Thrall from becoming impotent (or worse, having a 180-degree turnaround and becoming a warmongerer).

The other reason is the one I outlined in the analysis, the orcs (the core of the horde, by far the largest group) don't want Thrall. They want Garrosh. They want a strong, harsh and "ready-to-march-at-the-drop-of-a-hat" leader. Someone that can protect them against the alliance, the twilight and the crumbling world. As great as Thrall is... he's too soft for that (or so they believe).

As for other leaders, I don't think there are any. Cairne/Baine and Vol'jin represent too small factions to be accepted, Sylvanas is too vicious (and probably don't want to lead the horde, just use it for her own ends) and Lor'Themar is an elf, they're too culturally different. Until the political views swings back in favour of Thrall's faction, Garrosh is really the only realistic option.
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Post by Muzjhath Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:19 pm

On the argument of Thrall being a bad Warchief during war, and being taken down for such reasons. I think they are just missinformed arguments.
Playing through WC3, and it's expansion. You can well see that Thrall can lead the Horde in war, on the agressive side, without being a warmongerer. You also see that he is most competent at it.

As for Garrosh, with how he's beeing pictured in game right now. He would make for one very bad warchief of the horde. He's too young and inexperienced (while he is most likely older than Thrall himself, it is the second part that is important) with politics and history of the Horde. He is ferocious and will be able to inspire the orcs, but so far he's shown little wisdom. Something his father showed several times even if he in the end gave in to temptation.

For me to see him as a good warchief he needs a lot of personal growth and deeper understanding of the political situations. That all out war with all enemies will not save them when it's not needed.

PS, the big analysis, I do not agree with it on how it seem's to picture the horde under Thrall only having a goal for peace. There is still a big charge on defending it's lands, just not agressive plans of conquest. Thrall wants all threats to Durotar and the lands of the horde taken care of, he just doesn't want more big wars for his people.
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Post by Guest Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:57 pm

Garrosh is what the orcs need. They need to become real orcs again. Thrall is a pussy that should have never been put in charge! What about the cruel barbaric orcs! Their short-tempers and ready-for-war attitude!

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Post by Magaskawee/Anaei Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:02 pm

Mansfield \ Ath wrote:Thrall is a pussy that should have never been put in charge!

Then.. they'd still be in the internment camps.

Jus' sayin'.
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Post by Gogol Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:36 pm

Anaei/Vezullia wrote:
Mansfield \ Ath wrote:Thrall is a pussy that should have never been put in charge!

Then.. they'd still be in the internment camps.

Jus' sayin'.

I think that was his point.
Then we'd have them where they belong.
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Post by Guest Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:38 pm

Gogol wrote:I think that was his point.
Then we'd have them where they belong.

*Highfive*

We humans deny the existence of the internment camps! They were peaceful homes for the orcs to have happy lives in!

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Post by Geldar Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:50 pm

Mansfield \ Ath wrote:
Gogol wrote:I think that was his point.
Then we'd have them where they belong.

*Highfive*

We humans deny the existence of the internment camps! They were peaceful homes for the orcs to have happy lives in!

Our goverment denies the existance of internment and death camps. The orcs were in rehabilitation resorts to be healed after the war, and our goverment policy is that those who left after beeing fully healed from their wounds will be returned there after the next conflict for more intensive healing.

King`s Honor.

PS: Garrosh is what the Horde needs right now, he does look like a pretty epic leader from what I have seen in Cataclysm beta Smile (HE IS LIEK THE OBAMA FOR TEH HORDE JUST MOAR AGRESSIVE!)
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Post by Magaskawee/Anaei Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:53 pm

So next race to be interned? I'ma thinkin' Dwarves! WE HAS MOAR TROOPS!
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Post by Kristeas Sunbinder Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:22 pm

Geldar wrote:
Our goverment denies the existance of internment and death camps. The orcs were in rehabilitation resorts to be healed after the war, and our goverment policy is that those who left after beeing fully healed from their wounds will be returned there after the next conflict for more intensive healing.

King`s Honor.

PS: Garrosh is what the Horde needs right now, he does look like a pretty epic leader from what I have seen in Cataclysm beta Smile (HE IS LIEK THE OBAMA FOR TEH HORDE JUST MOAR AGRESSIVE!)

So... he has none.
Also... Orc Obama... "I change look of your face, right now".
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Post by Guest Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:26 pm

Kristeas Sunbinder wrote:Also... Orc Obama... "I change look of your face, right now".
G.h.Orcbama

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