[A] Cultist guild, interest check

So I've had some people, I've heard some rumours, talking about wanting some more shadow-y things alliance-side. Whether these rumours are true, I hope to find out in this topic!

If there would be people interested, I would offer/suggest..

- A base in Stormwind, nice and secret, as well as elsewhere in the world.
- Disguises for each and all! What's more fun than walking around in Stormwind, knowing that you killed someone five minutes ago, but no-one able to prove anything? Outside of guild events, one would/could look like a normal citizen.
- Regular ebul events and traveling: summoning demons, tracking down artefacts, preaching to some dark deity. Cooperation with other, like-minded people might occur, but in the end, there can only be one..!
- Some interaction (with OOC consent, of course) with other guilds, but we want to be careful: we don't want the Black Hand to soar all over us, or any of the guards finding out!

Other than that, if there is interest, I'd be open to suggestions before actually starting something concrete.

I believe we already have Black Hand and Eye of Shadow.

I know black hand have a ton of cultist RP to offer. Shit tons of lore and all sorts of crazy, Dark shit that i wont give away OOCly as some people have no idea about any of it. Can't speak for Eye of shadow as I have had little to no interaction but they of course fit the dark cult slot also. May as well dump all the dark, Evool cultists types between two guilds rather than three IMO.

Domovoi wrote:I believe we already have Black Hand.

Aye, and I know they're -awesome-, however they're more doing things 'for the greater good', as I understand it. Stopping the bad guys through any means necessary, rather than opposing the good guys?

Cultist guilds rarely work imo. There are few exceptions (You know who you a re) over Defias history but for the most part... No. Maybe I am cynical in this but cultist Roleplay usually turns out worse than good. Not many can really pull them off in a make believe setting. There's always some messed up disaster.

The cynic in me on this topic refrains from saying more.

Go for it. Disguises? secret hide out? Yes please! No more poems or dropping bodies I hope! A proper cult! I say go for it!

I'd love another cultist guild. Just that, if you have a base in SW, don't whine if someone enters the base.

Didn't mean to be rude, only a tip from past experiences. :p

The trouble with cults is that while people that join it want to be dark, scary, badass harbingers of darkness, they don't realise that that level of overt evil is reserved for major factions like the Scourge and The Burning Legion. Small scale cults, as is the only viable option for guilds just starting out, need to blend in and stay hidden, and that's very mundane and usually leads to people dropping off quickly.

CrusaderElly wrote:So I've had some people, I've heard some rumours, talking about wanting some more shadow-y things alliance-side. Whether these rumours are true, I hope to find out in this topic!

If there would be people interested, I would offer/suggest..

- A base in Stormwind, nice and secret, as well as elsewhere in the world.
- Disguises for each and all! What's more fun than walking around in Stormwind, knowing that you killed someone five minutes ago, but no-one able to prove anything? Outside of guild events, one would/could look like a normal citizen.
- Regular ebul events and traveling: summoning demons, tracking down artefacts, preaching to some dark deity. Cooperation with other, like-minded people might occur, but in the end, there can only be one..!
- Some interaction (with OOC consent, of course) with other guilds, but we want to be careful: we don't want the Black Hand to soar all over us, or any of the guards finding out!

Other than that, if there is interest, I'd be open to suggestions before actually starting something concrete.

Tbh my advice is don't have a cultist base in stormwind that is anyway permanent cus well Cultists in stormwind will never last long.

Disguises yeah that'll work for awhile, you really do have to be intelligent in how you act as a cultist blatant acts and having an audience really don't help in the grand scheme of things.

Regular ebul events and travelling seems to work out really the best.

A well thought out Goal/Purpose is also VERY VERY important to a cultist guild you have to decide what it's going to be about and have boundaries for it, a good cultist guild will usually stick to a good solid theme for their guild and bring in like minded guild members and not try to appeal to multiple ways and themes like some cultist guilds are trying to do.

Another piece of advice be open to being captured or hurt as a cultist do not go for the overpowered ebul DK or necromancer/warlock which has been many cultists downfall in their roleplay people like to roleplay against intelligent roleplayers who can give them a real good storytelling experience not someone who can take a mace to their bare head and be perfectly fine.

Propoganda is also a useful tool to be used if you are a cultist guild a good dirt slinging war against the light-dogs is always a good way to go argue indoctrination of the youth through the orphanage etc whatever you can use always does well to stick it to the light-dogs in one shape or form.

Other than that i wish you all the luck really as their is no real cultists guilds around that have a clear purpose or vision as to what they are, i wish you the best in your endeavor.

Also Roleplayers who do join a cultist guild have to be pro-active in creating Roleplay for themselves and for others otherwise it get's mundane and they end up dropping out due to boredom essentially you cannot have members that expect roleplay handed to them on their lap but also they must be able to not do silly things.

This is just my experience at least from Roleplaying in the Hand of Nightmares alongside Zaraj BlackBlade and Lady Axio two very good Cultist Roleplayers.

What if it's not a cult but a collection of like minded individuals, a cult suggests they worship something no? I'm not so much up for cult but a collective of "evil" and "twisted" people seems more fun to me. Might just be me, just interneting my opinion.

Your timing with this topic is somehow ironical to me. I have been toying with the idea of creating a Villain character and probably taking a dark guild for myself to lead to create Roleplaying on that front. However i am soon having a break from wow and thus won't be able to go with my plan. It is still in my mind, though, reason i was somewhat amused to see a thread pop up that i'd be likely to grab if not for my break-to-come. If (when, no-one really quits wow) i return i might give it a try, but that won't be in a few months, that's for sure.

I agree with what was said in the earlier posts.

If you go for this, do not under no circumstances spoon-feed people Roleplaying. As Burgen said, you need pro-active people able to create roleplaying by themselves, not wait it to fall on their lap. Sure, you can have these "minions" that do your bidding and you provide them roleplaying by commanding them to do things, but if you are the only person in your guild able to set wheels turning, it is not worth hoarding these "minions".

If you have a Villain character in mind that you want to play, go for it. Build it slowly and roleplay for your enjoyment rather than to fill a missing gap in community (if you get both, then that's great!). Do not rush with getting additional members for your schemes before you are ready for it.

Ps. I recommend making use of [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] event to recruit people IC. Plenty of shady folk around there.

PPS. I used to lead a Dark Guild in the past. It only lasted for a month due of a betrayal. However, there were a few "interesting items" we created when the guild was still active. If you (or any other dark/adventurer/explorer guild) are feeling like hunting items of fallen cults as a plot of yours, feel free to PM me and we get into details.

I agree on that SW might not be the best place to set up a base, but it doesn't stop you from trying to infiltrate it (Note: not in the base making way)

Far as disguises good! One needs to think really casual like a farmer or a beggar! But suggest you be careful of just *Magically changes clothes in as second without lifting a finger*

As a suggesting "perhaps" you can use that Gryphon hearth groups and maybe do it a more "infiltration" type thing or harder to track down to a guild tag of course, but both things got their ups and downs anyway up to you.

Traveling and being about the world is always good sitting around SW can get dull fast.

My tip for the Cult Guilds is to maintain constant activity in Stormwind but to have a lair somewhere else in the World where hopefully (for them) nobody will ever find them. Take the crypts of Duskwood for an example. They are relatively Close to SW and they also offer very dark and exciting RP with just their design and location. Though such a Place would only be neccesary for the most "secret" meetings I guess. Sorry if I am rambling...   

My tip for evil Rpers is that they should realize that their purpous is be a benifit to the good guys RP. It's impossible, lorevise, for an evil guild to gain world dominance. They should act as a threat to the good guys and know that in the end, they will have to lose. If you're going to play allmighty evil guys that always win then the "good guys" will grow bored of you very quickly and stop wanting to RP with you. They have to be the ones going out as the winners, because thats how the World of Warcraft work.

I do disagree with you, Helmut. To an extent, at least.

The good guys outnumber them ten-to-one. Brute force and grand demon rituals will eventually be countered by the good guys. One mistake, one betrayal may mean the end of an entire dark organisation. The Dark side is against impossible odds. Does it mean they can not win?

Not in my opinion. There is a difference between Intelligent, long-term Evil and Evil for the sake of being Evil. There are methods as infiltration, corruption, means to slowly spread influence. There is always a risk of discovery, risk of all plans coming into light, risk of base of operations being discovered and raided. It is likely that the Good Guys will score victory on countless occasions over the Dark Side, like 8/10 of all encounters. Dominance by brute force, undead invasions, daily kidnappings and torture function only to annoy the Good Guys to the extent that they begin a full-through investigation and eventually raid the evil base. However, if the dark side is merely driven back and never truly defeated, it will grow in strength. It may be months, maybe years but someday.... the Good Side may discover that the Darkness was merely waiting for it's time.

The chances for that are very, very very very very slim... but not entirely impossible. I agree that there won't be a day where undead and demons can be seen freely walking on the streets next to their evil masters, but there may come a day when people fear the shadows that dominate all under the surface.

TL;DR: evil should realize that they are can never win in open war against the good guys. Be intelligent, be subtle, be prepared to lose, but never lose sight from your goal. Live to see another day and keep trying.

Actually, good guy numbers aren't at an all time high right now, so if stupid evil amassed some numbers, they'd likely be able to wreak more havoc than one'd usually expect, not to mention what a dedicated team of Horde bad guys could do, where the "Good guys" are less clearly defined, and less lawfully organized.

Edit:
On the topic of more subtle evils, Dwy had a good run as a needlessly ruthless priest, and worked his small things in the background for a long while, before assuming leadership of the Freelancers, working more openly and eventually being killed off by an even better subtle evil. It was fun.

Whoa, many replies were given that day!

Clara: I realise it's a hard, near-impossible task, especially for one such as me with so little experience.
Mistakes will be made, undoubtfully, but I do believe that practise makes.. Maybe not perfect, but at least,
acceptable! Only of course, if interest and possibilities exist from multiple factions.

Ixirar: Indeed something to keep in mind, I do expect 'a lot' of secretive rp with a small playerbase. Whilst
interaction with others is great, it needs to be approached with the greatest caution, although I do believe
I've an idea to provide regular rp in-between the demonworshipping. But yes, valid point indeed.

Burgen: thanks a lot for the variety of tips, I'm currently doing a lot of research to fill in the gaps!

Charlie: a collection of evil-ish people could potentially work to some extent, however I do believe some form
of control, restrictions, a goal, a reason for them to be working together, needs to be established. Else they
might just evil all over each other, y'know? A bit of backstabbing, betraying, and the whole thing falls apart!

Inran: thanks you too for the heads-up, definitely something I'll keep in mind and try to aim for. I'm most
intrigued by your items, and if this thing gets working at some point, I'll definitely contact you!

Siegmund: the SW base thing would be a cover-up, something innocent, something to do outside of evilz, to allow
interaction with others without danger of being exposed and what have you. Maybe. I'll think about it. Disguises
will be present, yes, in some form. Gryphon Hearth groups, could you elaborate on that, please? It sounds awesome.

Eldiros: not rambling, all fine, thanks! ^^

Helmut: I do believe in evil eventually being vanquished. Maybe only after they have reached a brief moment of glory however.
Either way, I would plan to avoid coming into contact with authorities all too quickly. Keep it quiet, progress
only very slowly. Don't want to be found out in week one, and raided in week two!

Ideas are starting to form, but it will still require some time, some effort, and some aid! Like-minded individuals
who have a character slot to spare are more than welcome to join me in a skype chat to discuss possible details?

Well the evil cultist guilds kinda died out to peoples views that EVIL must ALWAYS lose from the good guys and that EVIL must always be super powerful by the cultists that and Bad Rp practices.

Evil Rp'ers are not their to serve the good guys just like good guys are not there to serve the bad guys they in the end enhance each others Roleplay interesting things should be done to engage each other as opposed to dropping corpses out the sky and/or expecting not to let the IC run it's course and be given a free ticket to escape their is many pitfalls to cultist Rp but their is many good points to it as well.

Yeah, I agree with Burgen, wanting to be the snidely whiplash to the lighties dudley do-right, isn't something that's going to have longevity

You shouldn't necessarily be opposing the good guys, you should have your own goals and trying to accomplish those goals. (which hopefully aren't worlddomination waargh) and when those interrests clash, which they most likely will, then shit happens. that's hopefully not completely destructive.

Regarding the Duskwood crypts etc: it IS a good place to RP, but it's also place #1 where the Light-/Law-based guilds search for villainry and evil scum. You could take over Raven Hill ICly and actually live in the ruins there, and present a perfectly normal face, like BH is doing off in Gilneas? It'd also give you a good close range to Stormwind

Cultist tip number 1!

Use disguises when you do bad shit, and walk in normal clothes otherwise! People who dress darkly, loom around in the corners and whisper will attract guard attention. hell, the times I've gone IC "That person is suspicious!" Due to dark clothing and mask and hood.

Otherwise: Go for it! Always fun to have bad guys to fight. I love it when I go against scary, mystic cultists that leaves me with irl having hairs stand on end! Just be very good at teaching how to be descreet when you recruit people. Warlocks wandering Stormwind with demons out and such is not exactly the discreet cultist that survive.

Looking forward to see what comes of this

You know Im all for this Av, got a character and all. Looks good so far.

Mostly what I have seen from cultist RP in the past is that usually People who just can't RP very well go to these Guilds at a more frequent rate than they usually do with the "good" Guilds. This is why the "evil" RP isn't swarming across Stormwind, atleast to a partial extent. I have had experience in the past with trying out some of the Cultist Guilds, (except the black hand and Eye of the shadow) and usually it all ended up in a ridiculous mess as the majority members of these Guilds just couldn't RP at all, godmoding as F***. Actually all the Guild I metnioned having tried here have ceased to exist for that one reason. I just hope the Black hand and the Eye of the Shadow will do a better job than what i've seen from other evil Guilds. Best of Luck to you guys!