Re: Warlords of Draenor - General Discussion

by **Drustai** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:47 pm

Yes please. Gul'dan ftw.

by **Allonia_Miral** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:47 pm

I remember them using some kind of ritual to speed up the growth of orc children as well, to make them warriors.

But yeah, this will happen before any of these "taints" entering orcs.

by **Thelos** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Sanara wrote:I just hope that Gul'dan gets to shine. He's the best villain the franchise has ever had, and I really wanted more Burning Legion for this expansion - so if Gul'dan is already a Warlock with demonic allies, he could be a gateway to that, perhaps subverting Garrosh's efforts to keep the Iron Horde uncorrupted.

Gul'dan's biography seems to imply exactly that:

Indebted to a demonic lord and pitted against the mentor he betrayed, Gul’dan is one of a handful of fel orcs on Draenor, his visage and shamanic power twisted balefully by demonic communion. The outcasts he leads, the Stormreaver clan, now fight to wrest their “rightful” place in the Iron Horde from Gul’dan’s former master Ner’zhul . . . and to tempt a great army of orcs into infernal corruption.

Would be epic if he managed to steal the final villain spot from Grommash.

That would be a serious case of déjà vu in the best of ways.

by **Ruby** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:49 pm

"Maraad saw pretty much everyone he knew slaughtered, and now he's going back" - Kossak

"We characterise him as one of the Warlords of Draenor" - Afrasiabi

chills

by **Drustai** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:50 pm

Allonia_Miral wrote:I remember them using some kind of ritual to speed up the growth of orc children as well, to make them warriors.

But yeah, this will happen before any of these "taints" entering orcs.

Yeah, it was the shamans-turned-warlocks who were doing that, though they only started it after the war had dragged on a couple of years, since the draenei were actually putting up a good fight and the Horde were starting to get desperate for manpower.

by **Muzjhath** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:51 pm

Cerik Ironforge wrote:I was under the impression the reason the Orcish Horde decimates the Draenei is because of drinking the blood?

Alternate reality is slightly more acceptable because it does not tamper with current on-goings. The lore section they've picked is wonderful, one of the best, and carefully laying the groundwork for Sargeras.

It's also good to see that Blizzard have finally taken more into account from people who ask for things (plus taking good ideas from other games). In time, this might even render Prologue obsolete in terms of being able to offer roleplayers the interaction with the world they want.

They decimate the Draenei due to warlocks and the powerboost and surprise party they bring.
They have to "Prove their worth" before they get to drink the blood, etc. And the burning legion likely don't want to show their hand too early. The manipulation could happen without any major notice. Had Manoroth entered the world I'm sure a lot of Draenei would have felt it.

by **Drustai** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:51 pm

Ruby wrote:"Maraad saw pretty much everyone he knew slaughtered, and now he's going back" - Kossak

"We characterise him as one of the Warlords of Draenor" - Afrasiabi

chills

Awesome.

Drustai likes him.

by **Thelos** Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:52 pm

The Draenei haven't had a lot of story in previous expansions, but this one gives the team a chance to look at who they were before the Draenei we know today.

<3

The world will be a little more like Timeless Isle, with things like a caravan of Iron Horde being stranded in the snow that you can kill to take the treasure they were hauling. This isn't a quest, just one of the events in the new and more dynamic world.

<3<3

...

Hit and expertise will be removed
New stats will be added, including Cleave and Movement Speed

...Wow.

And there you go, folks, worry not: Outland is still there.

Did Outland happen or was it changed by going back in time?
Outland is still out there.

by **Raenmar** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:06 pm

They're really not very clear about the time travel.

It's not actually time travel, because it's like... a different dimension? Nothing we do and nobody we meet in this Draenor will affect the current Draenor, and they'll all die anyway. It makes it all seem very pointless.

by **Ruby** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:07 pm

Raenmar wrote:They're really not very clear about the time travel.

It's not actually time travel, because it's like... a different dimension? Nothing we do and nobody we meet in this Draenor will affect the current Draenor, and they'll all die anyway. It makes it all seem very pointless.

The Iron Horde from the past version of Draenor are about to invade current Azeroth.

by **Thelos** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:07 pm

Raenmar wrote:They're really not very clear about the time travel.

It's not actually time travel, because it's like... a different dimension? Nothing we do and nobody we meet in this Draenor will affect the current Draenor, and they'll all die anyway. It makes it all seem very pointless.

Garrosh is building a portal and wants to take his revenge on us for kicking our ass.

So, if you don't want Garrosh to come back and start wrecking the place up again, you're going to have to stop him yourself!

by **Hermie** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:08 pm

the point is to stop garrosh from bringing the iron horde to our present

by **Vaell** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:09 pm

It is pointless, true, but it's a good pointless. If they had made it the direct past, they'd have to deal with too many butterfly effect issues.

This may be a slight cop out, but it's one that provides a rich vein of RP. It allows us, as players, to go back and experience an incredible bit of lore and RP there. You could go back and quite literally kill your younger Draenai self and change nothing of the future. They could have a gay relationship between Orgrim and Gul'dan if they want! It's all open. Alternate timelines are a lot of fun.

EDIT: They don't want people to bog down on the time travel thing, so I'd assume it's just an alternate timeline.

by **Raenmar** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:11 pm

But the world in effect isn't real, it's just a setting to fight the Iron Horde. Nothing that happens there actually happens except stopping the Iron Horde.

When changing the past doesn't actually change the future it just really feels empty.

by **Ruby** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:12 pm

"We'll get into Gorefiend, we'll get into Cho'gall, all of Gul'dan's posse" - AA

by **Thelos** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:13 pm

There is effectively no significant difference about stepping trough a portal to prevent Garrosh from invading with his Iron Horde and stepping trough the Dark Portal to prevent Illidan / The Legion from doing the same thing.

by **Zaraj** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:13 pm

To be honest, it's a bit redundant. As cool as it is seeing Kargath, Kilrogg and what essentially was the real orcish horde, I'd have preferred something that was new entirely, and with so much shit in the actual lore left unfinished, it seems even stranger to go back to the past. It seems a bit too much of a knee-jerk response to pandas. Not to mention, storywise it doesn't necessarily progress the present, the only thing that will actually progress the story will be the final boss who is probably the true culprit behind the ordeal (prolly Malganis or something). Then again... story, eh, who cares.

But then again, it could be because the orcs are essentially everyone's villain once again.

by Guest Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:13 pm

It is lazy if it is put like that, lazy and uncreative.

It's like making a once off roleplaying event that has no impact on anything. I feel the lore is nice, and the part they've chosen to 'renovate' is great, but that doesn't make it any more a 'creative' piece of story telling.

It's not surprising that the cap remains at 90 (?) because the story of WoW barely progresses. You go to an alternate universe to defeat a foe that's been defeated twice [The Dark Horde lost the first time, why wont they lose again?] and better yet they have no fel blood which gave them the ability to do such damage on Azeroth in the first place.

That would sum up the initial impression this is currently imprinting on me, also Drustai and Muzi thanks for the explanations.

I do however look forward to seeing the Shadow Council and the boys.

by **Lini** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:15 pm

Raenmar wrote:But the world in effect isn't real, it's just a setting to fight the Iron Horde. Nothing that happens there actually happens except stopping the Iron Horde.

When changing the past doesn't actually change the future it just really feels empty.

More or less every WoW expansion so far:
[Big Bad Enemy Faction] is about to/is already invading us and we have to bring the war back to their homeland of [Homeland/Homeworld Name Here].
This time around the enemy just happens to come from an alternate past.

by **Drustai** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:16 pm

Raenmar wrote:But the world in effect isn't real, it's just a setting to fight the Iron Horde. Nothing that happens there actually happens except stopping the Iron Horde.

When changing the past doesn't actually change the future it just really feels empty.

by **Ruby** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:16 pm

Cerik Ironforge wrote:
It's not surprising that the cap remains at 90 (?)

The new level cap is 100.

by **Thelos** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:16 pm

Quoting myself here as it has just become relevant, as predicted:

Thelos wrote:I pray to Metzen that this expansion will be even 'filler-y' than the last, just to shut up the annoying prats who keep calling Mists of Pandaria filler.

Because I don't believe in filler; and what has been traditionally refered to as filler by some has been amongst the most enjoyable content for me personally.

by **Vaell** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:17 pm

The past won't be effected, so no event can be changed - you can't go back in time and murder your own parents, ceasing to exist...

BUT the future can be effected. If the Iron Horde won and poured through, they could change the course of Azeroth entirely - and something big will happen as they're constantly saying that the next expansion will be a lead on from this one. So Gul'dan could survive, enter the new world and be a prominant character in the present Azeroth.

by **Thelos** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:19 pm

Vaell wrote:BUT the future can be effected. If the Iron Horde won and poured through, they could change the course of Azeroth entirely - and something big wi happen as they're constantly saying that the next expansion will be a lead on from this one. So Gul'dan could survive, enter the new world and be a prominant character in the present Azeroth.

YES.

All of my money!

by **Drustai** Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:22 pm

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