Warcraft Technology - Scientific Advances

Some time ago, one of my guildies was RPing a slightly more chemistry style take on alchemy. I was not present but I was told that he did something involving sublimation, and my guild leader politely said to him OOC that the process of sublimation would 'need to be proven'. Clearly, my guild leader needed some education about the fine points of basic chemical transitions, and how little tech you need to observe them. But the story did set me into thought...

With the level of technology available in the Warcraft setting (lets face it, the technology level is completely randomly spaced in some areas - dimensional vessels and holograms at one end, a lack of industrial power stations at the other), what scientific advances (useful to RP) could be available? Moving on from this, my trail of thought centered around medicine but I have some other thoughts as well. Obviously, the more sensitive and analytical your equipment is the better your science is, it is no mistake that so many discoveries have happened in the past hundred years IRL.

Medicine and Biology

Bacteria - You only need a light microscope to know about the existence of bacteria. Once you know that they exist and are potential pathogens this creates a very stark difference in your thoughts of sanitation (I recall a story told to me by a microbiology lecturer, where in a young woman in New York was arrested as someone causing illness, when actually nobody knew you should wash your hands between cleaning toilets and preparing food). Moving on from this, how you treat wounds also changes; you know that you need to prevent infection and so on. Magical treatment probably does not change, I presume that spells capable of curing disease would eliminate whatever the pathogen is. The potential for assassins might be interesting; someone with sufficient know-how might make up a pure culture of Bacillus anthracis (A process taking a few days, but requiring disturbingly basic equipment), adhere it to their blades/throw it in someone's drink, and voila - you have yourself primitive biological warfare.

Viruses - You need an electron microscope to see a virus particle firsthand. It is possible to imply their existence with a sufficient experiment, but we may not know they even exist.

DNA - Again, you need an electron microscope to see anything. I am not sure about the technical requirements of radio-crystallography, but lets bare in mind that we have only known of DNA for some sixty years IRL.
The concept of a gene, however, is much older. It is perfectly possible that we could have a concept of genes and Mendelian inheritance patterns - whether or not this is an important point in RP is debatable, however.

Evolution - Some of the later arriving evidence might require some more sophisticated tools, but evolution seems to be present in the WoW Universe in an altogether more 'divine interference' kind of way - I am thinking of the Titans and their creation of the Dragon Aspects, also of the Curse of Flesh. Is it important? It might be for the worldview of people and their relationship with other living organisms, but it is more significant for my next point.

Antibiotics - Anyone who knows the story of the discovery of penicillin will know that the IRL discovery of antibiotics seemed to be more of a fluke than anything else. That is not the full story, but even so...it could have happened. Agar is a derivative of red algae which has been known about and used for at least a hundred years of microbiology. Someone could have caught a fungi growing on it. Even if we do not know about the active ingredient, herbalists may know that some fungi/plants, ingested in sufficient quantities, help with bacterial infections/treat some diseases. Obviously, I do not think that the tech is there to extract the active ingredient in meaningful quantities; there is not likely to be an antibiotic industry. But it is an interesting thought for healers who like walls of text. Onto the point of evolution, I do not think (perhaps best not to quote me) that antibiotics in such small quantities and potencies would suffice as a large enough selection pressure to allow antibiotic resistance to evolve. Whether or not people know about evolution may prevent any kind of precautions, however. (IRL, we knew about evolution and still fed people antibiotics for everything under the sun in an unregulated fashion for about twenty odd years, it may not make a difference anyway)

Anesthetics and Painkillers - Obviously, these have a very potent affect in patient satisfaction. Obviously, the first pain killers (that herbalists and healers would definitely know about) would be alkaloids, opioids and other plant derived substances which dull pain (and get you high). Other opiates can knock you out. The drawback of using these is that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to get the dose wrong and kill someone. The best local anesthetic, by far, would be cocaine - many early anesthetics were synthetic derivatives of cocaine. I presume, here, that we do not have the technology to synthesis artificial painkillers and anesthetics - this may depend on the level of understanding we have in chemistry.

General Anatomy - Obviously, you can find out about general anatomy (what does what, what is essential...etc) by exploring inside a living creature. This is how a lot of our early knowledge came about. I think it is safe to say (perhaps it need not be said) that, for instance, people know that all animals tend to be powerless without their heads (or where ever the brain is kept where applicable).

Physics/Chemistry

Radiation- There have been a few quests that prelude to this, so I'll make it quick. Light is a form of radiation on a spectrum known as the electromagnetic spectrum - basic physics. I think we know that in Warcraft (give or take some finer points). We may also know that same rocks give off certain wavelengths of radiation. We may even be capable of performing X-rays imaging. Again, it depends on the tech, the first "medical" X-ray was performed in ~1895 all you really need is a dark room, a source of X-Rays, and photographic film.

Atoms - You can't see an atom with any technology available in the Warcraft setting (indeed, with the best equipment all you get is what I can only describe as columns of blobs IRL), but you can infer their existence and you can formulate a theory which stands tall from that. Once we get to this stage, I think is is very difficult to figure out if anyone is going to know about them or not. Discoveries like these take a lot of experimentation to culminate into so much as a hypothesis - the same can be said of DNA. We've only had atomic theory for about a hundred years. I am not sure what to say about this one.

Physical Processes - As pretty much said at the start, you know about condensation, evaporation, and so on. It is not hard to observe these in nature.

It's all about Education...
So...what does your character know? This leads into what could be a whole other discussion - the quality of the education system in the Warcraft setting. I am going to go ahead and presume that it is nothing like what we have in the western world (while the American system lags behind, particularly in science, it is likely not even that good). Scholars might know the finer points of science available by the technology they have. Healers would likely know the finer points of medicine available, depending on their training. It all centers back to your character's background by this stage. Common sense prevails, I think...then...I have been wrong before.

So...why did I post this? Discussion and Refinement. I've made my points, what do you all think? On the refinement side of things; I think this, if we hit a consensus, might add to people's RP - mostly, I think it will add to the RP of healers and medics. Let the comments begin to flow...

Since the inhabitants of Azeroth have several ways to make things grow (or shrink them), I'd say it's open for debate if it's possible to somehow magnify a bacteria so it's viewable with the naked eye.

Also meditate on this: MRI - Mana Resonance Imaging.
The magically educated races should be able to extrapolate a compound and structure depending on how it reacts/transmits/inhibits magical energies.

You could add genetics to this, for as long as man has walked they have known about this instinctively, look to breeding of dogs, horses and cattle. Furthermore the founding of genetics by Mendel was in an enviroment not so far removed from Azeroth.

Lexgrad wrote:You could add genetics to this, for as long as man has walked they have known about this instinctively, look to breeding of dogs, horses and cattle. Furthermore the founding of genetics by Mendel was in an enviroment not so far removed from Azeroth.

I did mention Mendelian inheritance patterns.

I tend to avoid things like this because, how do we know bacteria we're familiar with even exists in WoW? The biological make-up of a human could be entirely different.

I view WoW as an early modern (not medieval) universe, with some modern and even futuristic traits.

Therefore, I typically treat the technology 'around' that level. I use caplock firearms or higher, rather than flintlock. I've used casette recorders, cameras, and radios, as we have seen many things around that tech level in-game (especially radios). And I assume the gnomes have discovered atomic power (or some phlogiston equivalent) and early nuclear weapons, judging by the existence of a "Fat Man" bomb in the Skybreaker.

Regarding anasthetics, I typically use chloroform, because Redridge quests show that chloroform has been discovered in the WoW universe (you can even get an off-hand item called a 'Vial of Chloroform'). Could start using ether as well, since that was around in the same time frame.

On the other hand, I don't like to use syringes. I typically use fire cupping since it feels more exotic.

Regarding anatomy, I typically go with a complete understanding of it, seeing as I play a necromancer who is regularly disecting corpses!

As far as antibiotics go, I go with the alchemy system we have and brew potions and herbal remedies based on the logical and spiritual properties of the various plants in-game, rather than some specific antibiotic chemical. With infection, I do treat it as being known and do try to be somewhat clean with my surgeries.

One thing I wish to add is that science isn't the discovery of knowledge, but creation of knowledge. Newtonian Gravity did not exist somewhere 'out there', Newton created a model that describes the world remarkably accurate. But it was a choice to describe it in terms of forces acting at a distance, masses and things like space, time and give it the form of Calculus. As Einstein showed that is not the only working model of gravity.

Azerothians have a different system of natural philosophy (stemming from magic), so their models of reality and understanding of it should be different. They probably have models in Physics and Chemistry based on magical nature of stuff, vibrations of the Nether, mana-fields etc etc. Which would be more akin to late 20th century science, close to String Theory, Quantum Field Theories and other advanced stuff.

I will pick DNA to illustrate the point. The model of DNA, RNA, mRNA and whole molecular biology is based on treatment of the body as a chemical system. Azerothians are more likely to draw inspiration from divine healing and magical research, and describe a body as mostly a mechanical system (automaton) and a spiritual system, with latter being the more important of the two. So DNA will be implicitly known as 'cosmic pattern' that a spellcaster can manipulate to lesser or greater extent, without anybody explictly knowing of that huge molecule nestled in every living cell. Since Azerothians seek to manipulate 'DNA' through magic and alchemy rather than gene-splicing, the whole language of their theory would be likewise magical and knowledge of DNA-molecule itself would be superfluous. Since thye manipulate it on some higher, existential level.

Melnerag wrote:One thing I wish to add is that science isn't the discovery of knowledge, but creation of knowledge. Newtonian Gravity did not exist somewhere 'out there', Newton created a model that describes the world remarkably accurate. But it was a choice to describe it in terms of forces acting at a distance, masses and things like space, time and give it the form of Calculus. As Einstein showed that is not the only working model of gravity.

Azerothians have a different system of natural philosophy (stemming from magic), so their models of reality and understanding of it should be different. They probably have models in Physics and Chemistry based on magical nature of stuff, vibrations of the Nether, mana-fields etc etc. Which would be more akin to late 20th century science, close to String Theory, Quantum Field Theories and other advanced stuff.

I will pick DNA to illustrate the point. The model of DNA, RNA, mRNA and whole molecular biology is based on treatment of the body as a chemical system. Azerothians are more likely to draw inspiration from divine healing and magical research, and describe a body as mostly a mechanical system (automaton) and a spiritual system, with latter being the more important of the two. So DNA will be implicitly known as 'cosmic pattern' that a spellcaster can manipulate to lesser or greater extent, without anybody explictly knowing of that huge molecule nestled in every living cell. Since Azerothians seek to manipulate 'DNA' through magic and alchemy rather than gene-splicing, the whole language of their theory would be likewise magical and knowledge of DNA-molecule itself would be superfluous. Since thye manipulate it on some higher, existential level.

Yeah, that's how I treat it. I always look for and explain things in magical theory, and Dru can't understand the point of non-magical science since, to her, it seems like a waste of time with all the magical explanations she has for things already.

well as far as draenei tec goes.. I am led to understand that back on argus beffor its fall they were extremely technologically and magically advanced race.. it only stands to reason that with there long lifespans that it is entirely possible that there are a few argus techies left to teach the younger generation of draenei... of coarse most tec you see dranene's with tends to be naarue tec.. Does not stop me trying to play around with old true draenei tecnolegy on monrena.. After all some of it will have been saved as they fled.. things like culture and data stores.. etc.

Also, you can pretty much do anything you can imagine. Just like magic.

Do whatever feels right for your character.

Use whatever you need to further your plotlines.

Melnerag wrote:One thing I wish to add is that science isn't the discovery of knowledge, but creation of knowledge. Newtonian Gravity did not exist somewhere 'out there', Newton created a model that describes the world remarkably accurate. But it was a choice to describe it in terms of forces acting at a distance, masses and things like space, time and give it the form of Calculus. As Einstein showed that is not the only working model of gravity.

Azerothians have a different system of natural philosophy (stemming from magic), so their models of reality and understanding of it should be different. They probably have models in Physics and Chemistry based on magical nature of stuff, vibrations of the Nether, mana-fields etc etc. Which would be more akin to late 20th century science, close to String Theory, Quantum Field Theories and other advanced stuff.

I will pick DNA to illustrate the point. The model of DNA, RNA, mRNA and whole molecular biology is based on treatment of the body as a chemical system. Azerothians are more likely to draw inspiration from divine healing and magical research, and describe a body as mostly a mechanical system (automaton) and a spiritual system, with latter being the more important of the two. So DNA will be implicitly known as 'cosmic pattern' that a spellcaster can manipulate to lesser or greater extent, without anybody explictly knowing of that huge molecule nestled in every living cell. Since Azerothians seek to manipulate 'DNA' through magic and alchemy rather than gene-splicing, the whole language of their theory would be likewise magical and knowledge of DNA-molecule itself would be superfluous. Since thye manipulate it on some higher, existential level.

I do love the things that come out of discussions like this. I agree, and I very much like that view of science in WoW, it was something that I would not have thought of. The idea of magical theory does add a lot and put things into a very Azerothian perspective, it works well in the lore universe. As erwtenpeller said, above, with magic in the mix you can probably do anything and make it work.

Drustai wrote:On the other hand, I don't like to use syringes. I typically use fire cupping since it feels more exotic.

But they exist in wow and syringes and cupping are totally different

and hey cupping isn't that exotic!!!! we were taught it in school!

Shaelyssa wrote:

Drustai wrote:On the other hand, I don't like to use syringes. I typically use fire cupping since it feels more exotic.

But they exist in wow and syringes and cupping are totally different

and hey cupping isn't that exotic!!!! we were taught it in school!

I'm aware of their differences.

Syringes just feel too modern for me.

Drustai wrote:

Shaelyssa wrote:

Drustai wrote:On the other hand, I don't like to use syringes. I typically use fire cupping since it feels more exotic.

But they exist in wow and syringes and cupping are totally different

and hey cupping isn't that exotic!!!! we were taught it in school!

I'm aware of their differences.

Syringes just feel too modern for me.

Considering the tech level of WoW combustion engines and guns, a syringe with a hollow needle can't be that much more modern.
The next step in the wikipedia chain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophthalmology_in_medieval_Islam

persian pride woop woop go islam!!! yalla jihad allalil kufaar ajma'een!!!

and hey that chesm manuscript is pretty cool arabic hasn't changed much from 12th century

This is a thread about science and progress, I am sure there is a scarlet thread that would suit better shae...

Well... you have technology such as teleporters and flying devices on one end of the road (Add to that steampunk-ish which is awesome) And titan constructs, as well as other marvels of engineering.

On the other side of the road there are settlements which are still in a complete lack of technology, I should assume it all depends on the skill of whom you're trying to develop technology with and if you're alone.

E.g. let's say you get a master engineer, alchemist, and jewelcrafter together, you could probably think up some sort of gizmo which uses all of them combined, however it would take time and research to make it, similar to the plague that has swept through Eversong woods not very long ago.

It'd pretty much be your imagination, and rationality, which would be the limit. (Don't make a reaper or a tripod, for gods sake xD)

At least that's my take on it, you'd be limited by reason, in the following way: Suppose you would have a steam powered car, but you'd want to make it more efficient. You'd have to ICly research and discuss with other players how to make a more efficient engine using the same or a different fuel source, slowly progressing.

To describe it more accurately, think of progressing down a tech tree such as the one in galactic civilizations II: