Ganking Blue Post

by **Aldric Essalus Helmfrid** Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:33 pm

PvP vs Ganking
Some great thoughts here. On the topic of ganking though, it's a tough one to handle. Many players join a PvP server so that they can seek out and inflict revenge on members of the opposite faction. You see players wishing for more world PvP like the old Southshore/Tarren Mill conflicts, and maybe some of the things you suggest would harm those kind of battles.

I'll play devil's advocate here (in my PvP server days I was always the victim rather than the ganker).

If buffs are sustained through death, that takes away some of the challenge of finding the person very quickly once they ress. Mind you, buffs can often be applied very quickly.

A debuff to prevent you from killing someone multiple times is a bit of a party pooper, and could potentially be abused — you'd have a hostile that was invulnerable for a limited time.

I think any PvP-kills-only debuffs/changes to timers could potentially add confusing layers of complexity to the game. Also, 'PvP-kills-only' could be possibly be avoided by waiting until a mob was attacking the gankee, then allowing the mob to get the killing blow.

You'd also have to make sure all these buffs/timers didn't apply to PvP zones like Wintergrasp and battlegrounds, and that players can't enter the zones with anything like that active.

Didn't they also have dishonourable kills in those days?
Yes but I don't think it did a great job to discourage those who wanted to do it deliberately. You could also get a dishonourable kill by being in a group with someone who killed a lowbie, this happened to me when I was outside an instance with a group once, I was heartbroken.

Yes it is a real challange waiting for them to res and kill them again with such a low health level and being so low levelled they don't even hit you when they try.
Depends on the difference in levels. Obviously if someone is a lot lower than you then yeah, the 'challenge' argument doesn't apply.

Or they could be made worth no honour if killed in a short time like when you HS. Possibly even the unthinkable bring back diminishing returns on honour.
True, although it only helps if people are actually ganking for honor or just for the fun of finding enemies to kill. I suspect a large portion of people do it for the latter reason, seeing as BGs are a much better source of honor points.

Well given that you can already turn off certain thing in Arena and BGs, even making things only work in a certain way, and have this ability for a while, surely it can be done to this too.
Yeah sure, I was only mentioning it to point out that it wouldn't be that straight-forward to implement, and we always have to weigh up the urgency of changes like this against other things that demand developer time.

Use the PvE-Server-Mechanic
As Oldtrafford pointed out, the whole point is that it's a PvP server. The rules and mechanics should be different when it comes to PvP. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

by **Coppersocket** Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:42 pm

Seems they're taking things very seriously into consideration now then. This is actually nice to see.

by **Aldric Essalus Helmfrid** Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:43 pm

A debuff to prevent you from killing someone multiple times is a bit of a party pooper, and could potentially be abused — you'd have a hostile that was invulnerable for a limited time.

Stands out the most to me as a genius idea. Blueshield someone who was just killed by an enemy player :O

by **Coppersocket** Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:51 pm

Or at least give you a 5min debuff where you can't be attacked or attack any player during the duration, make it a buff for the killed player, so he can deactivate it if he wants too.

But yeah, essentially blueshield for a short duration of time.

by **Lexgrad** Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:02 am

Where is this blue post?

by **Zhakiri** Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:11 am

I think they should make it so that you can only attack the opposing faction players if they are within your level range/ battleground range. They say there is nothing wrong with ganking/camping and there is PvP solution to everything but there isn't when it's pure malice that fuels an 85 to camp levellers who have no chance. That's not PvP.

by **Lexgrad** Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:16 am

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1172920567

Is the blue

by Guest Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:02 am

There is also a very good reply about how Blizz have managed to kill wPvP and I do have to agree with the guy....even tho it's an ABoC. We have lost the WAR in Warcraft, really if you don't want/like the PvP aspect be it camping, random kills or whatever, then you should be playing on a PvE server.

Ekosou
This is by no means a rant, more of a suggestion, and before you say "you should have rolled on a PvE server", please read up. I've always played on a PvP server since I like the aspect of a fight whenever and wherever, I have no problems with being killed once maybe twice by the same person it is expected after all, but one thing that goes against this is ganking, it's by no means fun to be on the receiving end and in some ways there are too many disadvantages to being ganked such as ress timers, removal of buffs/pets (weakens us before we can retaliate) etc, so I have a few proposals as to how to resolve this issue:

1. Remove the ress wait timer so that we can ress straight away and not have to wait up to 2 minutes if we are being constantly targeted. (only applicable to PvP kills)
2. Sustain buffs through death (only PvP applicable)
3. Better yet place some sort of protection if repeatedly killed by the same person, so instead of a ress wait timer there is a "can't attack player for x minutes" debuff on the ganker themselves.

I do enjoy a PvP world, but there is a limit to being ganked several times over, so would be nice to see some effects that discourage players from doing this to others. I've found this a particular problem on Cata since the advancement in gear means I'm often being ganked by someone with 3 times my health (if not more). Feel free to give som constructive critical feedback if you agree/disagree.

I wish you were on my server, i would gank and camp you for a few days, I'd have my members take shifts on the GY and your corpse and camp you to oblivion. Why? Because people like you who have been suggesting tougher guards, more phase zones, more protection, faster cast speed for mounts, more sanctuaries and so on, destroyed wpvp completely.

WPvP has been hit so unbelievably hard that those still doing wpvp have a full time job that grants no reward but the kill at the end and you what want to take that away? Because you cannot get your friends or call in a guild you want 'ON A PVP SERVER' more methods to escaping? Are you kidding me?

I once knew every guild leader and most their officers in every WPvP guild in europe (at least on english speaking realms) and now they are all gone. And not moved on, i mean gone as in quit because the game hammered down too hard and on servers with small populations or faction balance issues. The new efforts by 'Blizzard' to hamper what we can and cannot gank, (Tol Barad - WPvP Zone 2 shot guards) destroyed wpvp completely with what it started off being in 'the beginning' most likely long before the OP started playing.

WPvP is atm Officially Dead. There are very few of us capable of reigniting the passion and desire for bloodlust and chaos and you want to add more difficulty to it? You are lucky you have no idea how bad the ganking and camping is on our server. People don't get killed once or twice, they get camped for hours on end. Some complain like you, most love it, even the victims because it adds another dimension to the game. Your not playing for achievs or to grind things in a hurry, you are playing a WAR game and venturing out is dangerous in a world of WARcraft.

PvP servers if anything need to clamp down on things, decreasing guard spawns and damage in MoP is nothing. PvE servers offer you a choice to PvP, where as PvP servers offer you the same bar contest zones. By rights you should be unable to Blue Shield at all! Clamp down, more like buff wpvp and ganking. Give titles for people who have 25 - 50 - 75 and 100k kills in the world. More daily quests based around collecting body parts of alliance members, such as 20 gnome ears, 10 druid antlers and most importantly, a looting penalty. Every player is lootable and if you are killed you lose 20g and that gold is given to your ganker. Then you will be forced to get better and take the game more seriously, instead of loling around the world on a tight schedule, trying to get all daily quests done in under 5minutes and afking in contested locations.

We need to make players respect the game itself and its true purpose, War and the only way to do that is to give you nothing to hide behind. You roled pvp server, you live with that choice, not change it for the rest of us who know why we joined a pvp server!

by **Drustai** Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:28 am

Arli wrote:There is also a very good reply about how Blizz have managed to kill wPvP and I do have to agree with the guy....even tho it's an ABoC. We have lost the WAR in Warcraft, really if you don't want/like the PvP aspect be it camping, random kills or whatever, then you should be playing on a PvE server.

That guy is Faylum's latest posting alt, just fyi. You should also note that the first part of the post (everything before 'I wish you were on...') is from the previous poster. Faylum's stuff starts in response to those first three paragraphs.

I do agree, though. I'm not sure I'd say that Blizzard has killed wPvP so much as they have done little to give incentive to it. WG and TB are not wPvP regardless of what Blizzard says, they're just single-realm battlegrounds. Actual wPvP died quite a long time ago. Since then, people have grown too soft and have forgotten how to defend themselves. While too much ganking and camping is annoying, it is part of being on a PvP server.

What I would like to see, however, is mutable safe zones. I don't agree with Faylum's later post that blue shields should be removed, but they should be an active process. Therefore, give the ability to expand your faction's safe zones through player action. The ability to win in contested zones, bringing that zone into your faction (and thus be able to blue shield there, at least until the enemy faction wins it back). That would encourage people to actually fight back, because a victory would mean actually expanding (or at least defending) your faction's field of influence, granting increased safety in those acquired territories. If you want to RP freely in Gilneas, under the protection of tough guards and blue shield? Then you'd have to go out and win it from the Horde. And if you wanted to keep RPing in safety there, then you would have to make sure to defend it. In this manner, blueshielding becomes an active reward for PvP, rather than a passive defense from PvP. You would have to "win" your blueshield, and defend your ability to use it. (obviously, there would have to be other benefits for your faction for winning in contested zones, in order to encourage OOCers to also participate. The ability to blueshield in those regions would just be a side benefit).

Point being, that any safety you get from ganking on a PvP server should have to be built through player action, not just handed to you because you complain on a forum. Sadly, I doubt we'll ever see Blizzard implement any complex wPvP system like that.

by **Ixirar** Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:09 am

Aside from giving Rdruids a defensive DoT Swap like warlocks have, that's one of the better suggestions I've heard lately, Drustai

by **Skarain** Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:26 am

...I can only agree.

by **Vaell** Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:04 pm

I agree with your post to an extent, Drustai. The current blue zones would have to remain the same to keep it fair due to a lot of servers having a heavy faction inbalance.

However, in regards to the Faylum post, I think it is stupid. They WPvP by hovering above people and attacking when they have a major advantage. TB didn't kill WPvP. Flying mounts did.

by **Krogon Devilstep** Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:16 pm

Vaell wrote:I agree with your post to an extent, Drustai. The current blue zones would have to remain the same to keep it fair due to a lot of servers having a heavy faction inbalance.

However, in regards to the Faylum post, I think it is stupid. They WPvP by hovering above people and attacking when they have a major advantage. TB didn't kill WPvP. Flying mounts did.

^this. Flying mounts killed w-pvp, nothing else.

by **Lorainne/Bridlington** Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:27 pm

Ekosou/Faylum, it's only a game. Grow up, and stop talking like your actions are relevant at all.

You've proven that you have big e-testicles. Now turn off your computer, and have a cold shower before you make an appointment with the therapist.

by **Cid** Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:46 pm

Seiken Lionmane wrote:
Vaell wrote:I agree with your post to an extent, Drustai. The current blue zones would have to remain the same to keep it fair due to a lot of servers having a heavy faction inbalance.

However, in regards to the Faylum post, I think it is stupid. They WPvP by hovering above people and attacking when they have a major advantage. TB didn't kill WPvP. Flying mounts did.

^this. Flying mounts killed w-pvp, nothing else.

For the first time in quite some years... I fully agree with you. Now to see if the world is about to end outside. Cheerio!

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