Magical strength/weaknesses and limits in RP.

Okay...given the recent events with the Drustai/Deli capturing (which I have only read in the forums and not actually experienced ICly so no rage here please.) among other RP events and instances, I thought it might be a good idea to try and help the RP community out a bit with this post.

The name is self-explanatory, but I will explain nonetheless. Azeroth is as we know a world of magic and fantasy, yet there are cases where magic has gone..well a little OTT in some peoples experiences or just plain old "do as we say, this is how we've rped this magic for years who are you to disagree or try to resist?"

Given how much QQ and rage this can cause on the recieving players behalf, I'd like to open this discussion that hopefully by the end of this we can have a nice general view of the actual limits of magic and cases for strong/weak magic and how it can be used in RP without causing so much grief for all parties involved.

Now then, there are various types of magic.
Fel aka Demonic.
Arcane.
Elemental aka Shaman
Nature aka Druids
Holy (include Tauren paladins in there? not sure about the An'she/Light relation)
Shadow

Now each magic will each have their own counters to one another and their own strengths and weaknesses. So, let's begin the discussion shall we with a few generalities concerning magic overall before getting into specific magical areas.

From what I understand from various literary works concerning WoW magic, and magic across the whole universe of fantasy literature, using magic takes up some of your own strength to do so. The stronger the magic, the more energy it requires. Unless, you've already stored some energy within certain relics or items that can be used to activate the magic without costing you much energy beyond activating the magical battery to power the spell.

This sound okay to everyone, or is there a differing opinion? Please, discuss.

Good thread, I think it's needed.

Also I suggest that everyone looks at Drustai's guide she's been working on. I think it's fair and makes sense.
Anyone who uses magic ICly should give it a read.
http://www.defiasrp.com/t4686-magic-guide-wip

Weaknesses:

-Arcane, Fel, and Shadow corrupt you, like a drug.
-Using up mana drains the soul, this weakens you, and can put you into a coma or kill you. Stronger spells, or inefficient spells (battle spells) drain you a lot faster.
-With the exception of spontaneous mages (aka sorcerers), mages are incapable of casting all but a few spells when they do not have their spellbook/reagents/focuses/voices. Sorcerers have their own weakness in that they are very likely to blow themselves up, and their magic is much more demanding (thus quicker to weaken and fatigue you).
-There are various wards, dispels, and other buffs that can dispel or negate magic. Preparing an anti-magic zone in the courtroom would prevent any magic from being cast in it (and nullify most pre-existing spell effects, like buffs), and is thus a good idea for the future.
-Faith-based casters require the appropriate faith. Depression and other mental affects could wreck their faith for awhile.
-Individual spells have their own limitations. You cannot teleport to anywhere, for example, you must establish an anchor at your point of exit first. Blink can only safely be used to a point you can see--it can be used to stuff you can't see, but that's very dangerous and likely to get you molecularly bonded with a wall or other person. Carrying a polymorphed person into a portal causes an explosion. Etc.

Anyone who uses magic ICly should give it a read.
http://www.defiasrp.com/t4686-magic-guide-wip

On which subforum is that on? I get a "Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum" when I try to open that page.


Anyhow, back to the topic ->

If I have to emote healing with Holy Light I always phrase it so that the receiving person can decide for themselves whether they will be healed or not. If their wounds are not closing properly, then my character usually thinks it might be caused by:

• Weak spirit

• Affliction that Holy Light can't cure, such as poisons and curses

• Immunity to all kinds of magic

• The person is an undead!

• The person practices fel/demonic/shadow magic and will not benefit from Holy spells

I had a character who was still learning to become a healer. If the wounds were too difficult to heal, or there were too many of them, she usually got a nosebleed from trying too hard. I reckon the tax of using any spells becomes somewhat easier, the more experienced the caster becomes.

It's on the new Magic forum, Nessra. I intend on posting it on Game Discussion once it's finished, but it's just a WIP now so was only posting it for the benefit of the KT teacherfolk to help them.

Nessra Sunbinder wrote:
If the wounds were too difficult to heal, or there were too many of them, she usually got a nosebleed from trying too hard.

Or if the person she was trying to heal was too good looking!?

Taalani wrote:
Or if the person she was trying to heal was too good looking!?

Oh... that's some anime reference, isn't it?
I remember someone explaining about guys getting nosebleeds instead of boners.

Sorry! Offtopic!

Okay, so healing requires both groups consent.
Magic whatever its form drains you to a degree, depending on your own proficiency and the level of the spell.

Now I want to ask about a tricky subject...mental assault.
One character is invading the mind of another character. In my experience and from what others have said, this type of RP can be... well the most volatile and prone to QQ's and rage. I've seen this occur a few times, and its always had one extreme or another which has led to major OOC grief in the chat.

Personally speaking, I would tend to believe that if you have a disciplined mind, whether you are a mage or not, you can to a degree protect your mind from an assualt.

This is where it gets tricky though. How strong is the mental assault, how much discipline would be required, and can the person conducting the mental bombardment conduct any other actions whilst they are assaulting the person in questions mind i.e. can they use pain spells whilst keeping up the same level of pressure on the recievers mind?

What are your thoughts on this, if you'll pardon the pun?

Zalissa wrote:Good thread, I think it's needed.

Also I suggest that everyone looks at Drustai's guide she's been working on. I think it's fair and makes sense.
Anyone who uses magic ICly should give it a read.
http://www.defiasrp.com/t4686-magic-guide-wip

Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum.

Grek'thar/Takarius wrote:Now I want to ask about a tricky subject...mental assault.
One character is invading the mind of another character. In my experience and from what others have said, this type of RP can be... well the most volatile and prone to QQ's and rage. I've seen this occur a few times, and its always had one extreme or another which has led to major OOC grief in the chat.

Make a Will save. It's really the best way to handle it. Roll opposing dice rolls, higher person wins. Only time that this may not be required is when the assaulter has had the time to properly prepare the ritual (which should be very complicated and require a lot of preparation, no 'waving your hand' and suddenly mindrape). I didn't have Sadok/Kristeas/Mazguul roll Will saves against my mental spells because they were all tied and bound up, allowing me to prepare the ritual completely at my leisure. Though Mazguul was able to stall me quite a bit by kicking up a fuss and headbutting me and such.

There's also the fact that it's the victim's mind. While the spell might force them to give in if they fail the roll, they don't necessarily need to give in exactly as instructed. It's perfectly reasonable for the victim to respond to unclear questions with unclear answers, forcing the assaulter to ask very specific and detailed questions in order to get the appropriate answer. The above three did a lot of it, and I made sure all of them knew ahead of time that it was an option to them. For example, I asked Kristeas about the Path of Conquest army, but stated it in such a way that it could have referred to any army, so he responding by showing Dru memories of Sin Belore in Silvermoon.

This is where it gets tricky though. How strong is the mental assault, how much discipline would be required, and can the person conducting the mental bombardment conduct any other actions whilst they are assaulting the person in questions mind i.e. can they use pain spells whilst keeping up the same level of pressure on the recievers mind?

It is best when both victim and assaulter go into a trance state, completely negating any exterior actions and forcing everything to happen within the mind. It should put both into a highly vulnerable state in the physical world while they're busy dealing with the mental part.


Ultimately, the key thing, as with everything in RP, is to ensure you have a stable OOC relation with your target. RP is best when people respect each other and work with each other. When I am the assaulter, I make sure to let my victim know of the various ways they have of fighting back, and make sure that what I'm doing is okay for them.

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:

Zalissa wrote:Good thread, I think it's needed.

Also I suggest that everyone looks at Drustai's guide she's been working on. I think it's fair and makes sense.
Anyone who uses magic ICly should give it a read.
http://www.defiasrp.com/t4686-magic-guide-wip

Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum.

D'oh. Guess you could always join Magic, especially if you're interested.
Dru will make it public soon, anyway however, if you like the colour your name is.

I just wasn't sure what group it was in, 'sall :p

This is where it gets tricky though. How strong is the mental assault, how much discipline would be required, and can the person conducting the mental bombardment conduct any other actions whilst they are assaulting the person in questions mind i.e. can they use pain spells whilst keeping up the same level of pressure on the recievers mind?

If the person has an IC reason as to why it would be very difficult, or even impossible (such as a warding against mind tricks, or having an exceptionally strong will) then you just have to accept defeat, no matter how powerful your mindraping skills are.

Thuradas has mindread one of my characters, and it begun with an imaginary "knock on the door" or something along those lines. After that it depends on the person whether they willingly let the mind reader in, or if they want to keep him out. And if they try to keep the "door" closed, how long can they resist the "lockpicking" attempts? I assume getting inside someone's head against their will, or trying to keep someone out are just as taxing.

Yep, Lex was done by the cult during the crusade. Lex has no defence against such attacks and so I told them all about the alliance . Same is true with light and magic really and he has been on the end of a beating from users of each. (All fun RP)

Will save is a good idea but mostly I would assume chars have little defence and that is fine.

Grek'thar/Takarius wrote:
This is where it gets tricky though. How strong is the mental assault, how much discipline would be required, and can the person conducting the mental bombardment conduct any other actions whilst they are assaulting the person in questions mind i.e. can they use pain spells whilst keeping up the same level of pressure on the recievers mind?

The one character I had that that kind of rp with (as the target), was with a "tell no lies, but man truths". Mind magics don't really have much going for them except for the shock factor.
Is the target mind somehow pulled out of the body onto a plane with the caster, then it's still a battle between minds that is only started/made possible by magic. If the caster somehow walks into the targets mind, then on one hand more could be discovered, but on the other hand you are walking into the lions cage intending to slap it and get away with your life.

And in regards to the whole using using up mana thing, with that whole Blood Elf and Sunwell bussiness, I tend to rp great use of magic as either making burns or otherwise overloading the body.