Banning races/classes from guilds.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:38 pm

I was just pondering about the guilds which state no night elves or NO DKS and so on so forth, which obviously leads onto the debate about balance between IC and OOC. Personally, I think it's...slightly rude for a Guild Master or Officer to take one look at your character, and read the OOC text of "Level 61 Human WARLOCK" or the fact that your character is a Gnome and simply say "No." without so much as a glance at your character's history.

I mean...i'm fairly sure that most of the "light based" guilds would have laughed a Gnome out of Stormwind for enquiring about becoming a tutor in the light, let alone a full on priest and look at them now. As soon as blizzard allows Gnomes to become Priests, and spews some lore that validates their choice, RPers happily gobble up said lore and accept Gnomes with open arms! (I hate you Gnomes, every last one).

It's beyond a doubt that with a diversity of RL people comes a diversity of characters. I just...I understand that a Night Elf patrolling Stormwind Cathedral and pledging her/his life to the holy light can look...quite a lot like a loller, or someone who isn't "lore-savvy", and from an IC perspective it would be abnormal and outlandish. Providing this player can find valid reasons and backstories to allow his/her character to behave in such a way, I see no reason to disallow them from becoming a part of your community.

Another subject is the old "He's not a DK IC.". When I've approached certain guilds about their lack of DKs or locks in their guild their excuse it "It makes us look bad." or "It gives the image we accept warlocks ICly."...well....it doesn't, really now, does it? I admit that their runs a risk of the player allowing their character to develop dark, fel magics ICly but...isn't their that risk with even the holiest of paladins ICly?

After this small debate with myself or as some people like to call it; a "rant", I just...I think it's integral and a wise choice for guilds to reconsider their ban or disinclusion of OOC intervention. The key word being reconsider. I am not shoving this down anybody's throat, simply suggesting.

by Guest Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:06 pm

Er how is it rude OOCly and why would you alter your concept and who you're guild IC just so you aren't being "rude". And I do not RP with people who are "not DKs IC"

by **Morinth** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:08 pm

I agree with the class thing, sort of. The OOC tag may say 'Warlock', but for all you now, they may just be someone who specialises in fire magic. I do enjoy the fire spell effects from warlocks. Banning them from a guild cause people can OOCly see Warlock is silly.

by **corleth** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:09 pm

I feed upon the tears of every alien that I turn away from the Chapter.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:10 pm

Perturbo wrote:Er how is it rude OOCly

Well, it's disregarding IC knowledge and not giving people a chance. I think that if someone's put in the time and effort to send an application and written message as to why they're applying, despite being of a minority, you should have the courtesy to read the whole application, without reading the words "Warlock" and sending back the PM of "Sorry, no locks.", it's unproffesional and impolite.

Perturbo wrote:why would you alter your concept and who you're guild IC just so you aren't being "rude"

I haven't suggested this. Nowhere have I suggested changing guild concepts or IC changing, this is all regarding OOC.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:11 pm

Corleth wrote:I feed upon the tears of every alien that I turn away from the Chapter.

See, now the Chapter has a valid reason. They're ~~mental assholes~~ er...strongly...opinionated?

by **Rmuffn** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:11 pm

If you're not a warlock IC, but happen to be OOCly, many do allow you into the guild.

It is the IC that matters. Provided ofc you don't suddenly slam down demons on people, ever, ofc.

I play a Blood Mage, he's also versed with fire, arcane and some shadow. But he's no warlock, however oocly, warlock fitted the most.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:13 pm

Faralan wrote:If you're not a warlock IC, but happen to be OOCly, many do allow you into the guild.

Some do, but this was addressing the majority and/or left over guilds which don't <3

by Guest Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:16 pm

Quinso wrote:
Corleth wrote:I feed upon the tears of every alien that I turn away from the Chapter.

See, now the Chapter has a valid reason. They're ~~mental assholes~~ er...strongly...opinionated?

This still all OOCly?

by **Lexgrad** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:17 pm

Hmm, Well in the Warlock Class it can be so much. I have seen them as undead mages, shadow mages, fire mages ect. From an OOC GM pov having more classes is good for the guild. If there is an IC Ban then it should be handled IC.

If you really want to join a guild and it is a banned class/race then why do you try to join on that char? Make a new one.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:19 pm

Perturbo wrote:
Quinso wrote:
Corleth wrote:I feed upon the tears of every alien that I turn away from the Chapter.

See, now the Chapter has a valid reason. They're ~~mental assholes~~ er...strongly...opinionated?

This still all OOCly?

The Chapter provide a completely valid IC reason to discriminate and disallow anyone/everyone they don't like, however all other "light based" guilds don't have this same IC reasons, as they're supposedly good, and everyone is "one in the light" and all that blah blah blah.

by **Ralegh** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:19 pm

Well, from the standpoint of the Cartel.
We're a gang of thugs built on a mafia like system, we originated in Ironforge and ended up in Stormwind, so we accept gnomes, dwarves and humans.
Worgen ended up being more of a necessity due to the fact that we would rather have them with us than against us but elves and draenei seem to alien and far fetched to make sense in our group.
We once had one night elf because she made some minor sense and she was a great rper, allthough she wasn't fit us for long.

As for classes, death knights are dead... Scary stuff...
We have in the past accepted people who are "not a dk icly" but to be completely honest we have kinda stopped this due to a lot of these people being complete and utter shit.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:20 pm

Lexgrad wrote:If you really want to join a guild and it is a banned class/race then why do you try to join on that char? Make a new one.

Goddamn you Lexgrad.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:20 pm

I'm too lazy to make another character! Why have you pointed out the flaws in my rant?! ;_;

by **Morinth** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:22 pm

I would also like to point out that perhaps you prefer the in-game mechanics of the IC-Banned class to one that isn't banned, although you're only using it for mechanics and aren't some sort of demon-worshipper.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:23 pm

Morinth wrote:I would also like to point out that perhaps you prefer the in-game mechanics of the IC-Banned class to one that isn't banned, although you're only using it for mechanics and aren't some sort of demon-worshipper.

I guess but...people might think you're a lazy cheap skank who doesn't want to level another character Sad

by Guest Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:31 pm

Quinso wrote:
Perturbo wrote:
Quinso wrote:
Corleth wrote:I feed upon the tears of every alien that I turn away from the Chapter.

See, now the Chapter has a valid reason. They're ~~mental assholes~~ er...strongly...opinionated?

This still all OOCly?

The Chapter provide a completely valid IC reason to discriminate and disallow anyone/everyone they don't like, however all other "light based" guilds don't have this same IC reasons, as they're supposedly good, and everyone is "one in the light" and all that blah blah blah.

Er no that's not how light based guilds should believe really. IC reasons are still IC reasons. Roll another class if your joining the guild.

by Guest Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:34 pm

My viewpoint is that it's up to the guild leader/officers on what classes they accept so that they can maintain the concept of their guild.

I won't accept a mage just because he casts invisibility or a hunter with camo simply because our guild thing is that we are all rogues and I won't have that tainted by other classes rp'ing as rogues.

The GL/Officers of any guild are under no obligations to allow every player into their guild so if it means using OOC info wrapped in a lame IC excuse, then so be it.

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:49 pm

pertubo wrote:
Er no that's not how light based guilds should believe really.

An opinion

pertubo wrote:
IC reasons are still IC reasons. Roll another class if your joining the guild.

IC reasons are valid, rolling an OOC class for reasons I've disagreed against in the opening post is silly.

Arli wrote:
The GL/Officers of any guild are under no obligations to allow every player into their guild so if it means using OOC info wrapped in a lame IC excuse, then so be it.

And what if it's not a lame IC excuse? But a well thought out storyline, which is valid lore-wise?

by **Lexgrad** Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:05 pm

Well a GM has to look after their guild IC and OOC. The wrong kind of char can hurt the guild ic and ooc. If a Light guild let a shadow priest in that is cool, ic they could sneek in, but if there guild are about praying, services and stuff, a loose cannon if not managed well can be v damaging. Imagine if the DoL took a Lock who then went about on a blood for thr blood god killing spree.

The Shroud is simmler, we take living into the Watchers but to be a Knight in the guild you have to be undead. Taking living knights or Palas will hurt our RP IC and OOC and water our guild into a generic mixed RP guild which we are not. Our main purpose is to provide a vehicle for DK RP. Again if I really wanted to join a guild I would make a char that fits the guild or try to get my existing char to fit them. However there is no way Lex for example could get into most guilds so I accept there are limits. He wont join the three hammers, he wont ever be an inquisitor in the chapter and would never be allowed guard rights.

So yeah, as a double rant stopper, re roll Very Happy

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:14 pm

Lexgrad wrote:So yeah, as a double rant stopper, re roll

by **Ixirar** Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:20 pm

Hi guys. I'm one of those who "aren't a DK ICly", and I'm just hopping in to support those that seem to be against my character type.

Guilds aren't public clubs. The guild master HAS to exclude people if he wants to fit a niche. If the guild master is ok with the "DK that isn't a DK" then it's all fine, but if he doesn't want that in his guild then you are in no right to join it. I've been a victim of this before, and I suppose it won't ever stop, but that's what you're signing up for when you make that sort of character. And I love Kavalis too much to make another character, so I simply accept it and move on, even if that means that the strict and/or narrow-minded people won't RP with me because of this (to explain here, Kavalis is a "Shadow paladin", not a DK. Meaning he casts shadow magic and uses swords, but never died)

It's sort of in the invisible contract. You can't make me a cake with a flavour I dislike and expect me to eat it.

by Guest Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:28 pm

Quinso wrote:
Arli wrote:
The GL/Officers of any guild are under no obligations to allow every player into their guild so if it means using OOC info wrapped in a lame IC excuse, then so be it.

And what if it's not a lame IC excuse? But a well thought out storyline, which is valid lore-wise?

I meant that I would make a lame IC excuse to refuse them a place in the guild based on the fact that they are not of the class rogue Smile

by **Osuun** Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:35 pm

Ixirar/Kavalis wrote:It's sort of in the invisible contract.

Ooh, I like that. I like that a lot.

by **Valestrion** Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:57 pm

As GM of one of the Light guilds that doesn't accept DKs and warlocks, perhaps it might be helpful to explain some reasons why we don't accept these classes. There are essentially two main reasons that spring to mind.

1) Image. While people might be playing their DKs and warlocks as something else, we don't want people to get the wrong impression of the guild. It wouldn't be immediately obvious to a casual onlooker seeing a DK or warlock in a Disciples tabard that there is a deep IC story behind the character, and it would give the wrong impression of us if we accepted these classes.

2) Events. There's more to the Disciples than RP around Stormwind. We are an RP-PvP guild, and enjoy taking part in World-PvP in particular. Disciples need to be able to fight the Horde IC, which is pretty difficult if you are trying to RP having a different set of skills than the ones you have IC.

Having said that, if a warlock or death knight who we know very well came along with a strong IC story, we might make an exception. The Disciples have had at least one warlock member previously, I am told, although before my time. We are not likely to accept any DKs or warlocks through the normal applications process though.

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