Re: Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics

by **Eowale** Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:11 pm

I could start quoting things on Swedish. Just for you dutchies to see how fucking annoying it is.
You could -atleast- translate it before posting.

by **Antistia** Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:16 pm

Eowale wrote:I could start quoting things on Swedish. Just for you dutchies to see how fucking annoying it is.
You could -atleast- translate it before posting.

It would lose the nuance entirely. The words of those articles have been chosen carefully. Would I have translated to English part of the meaning would have been lost. It's also not like anyone's forcing you to read it so don't cry. Go ahead with quoting Swedish stuff though, completely fine with that.

by **Rasonal Dranger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:47 pm

Antistia wrote:
Eowale wrote:I could start quoting things on Swedish. Just for you dutchies to see how fucking annoying it is.
You could -atleast- translate it before posting.

It would lose the nuance entirely. The words of those articles have been chosen carefully. Would I have translated to English part of the meaning would have been lost. It's also not like anyone's forcing you to read it so don't cry. Go ahead with quoting Swedish stuff though, completely fine with that.

Actually, there has been a debate about that in the Israeli courts:

אין אני מאמין כי באמת תאבד המשמעות במקרה של תרגום. בנוסף לכך, כל אנשי החול הם בני זונות, שרמוטות, שאפשר למכור בשקל. שקל? משהו, שקל? שנקל גם טוב. נו טוב. השוודים יעשו מהפכה דרך איקאה, ככה שבמלא אין סיבה לצאת נגדם, לא לפני הרייך.

I could translate it, but it would lose the touch.

by **Nithel** Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:57 pm

I usually try to add the translation when I use words in Dutch. Unfortunatly they're mostly completely incorrect and especially on the subject of law they're mostly just plain wrong translations as Anglesaxian law is compleeeetely different from most of mainland Europe. But heck, English is the language of this forum so I might as well try. It's not like any of you read the discussions Antistia and me have so who cares if I write mistakes Very Happy

@ Antistia: Don't worry! I know what you mean. We'll just keep telling secrets in dutch!!!!

by **Lyniath** Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:59 pm

More reason to learn Dutch Very Happy

by **Rasonal Dranger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:09 pm

Lyniath wrote:More reason to learn Dutch

Why learn the raped form of the langauge when you can learn the true one, German?

by **Antistia** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:14 pm

Actually, there has been a debate about that in the Israeli courts:

Actually, I do believe it will lose significance. Let me illustrate this through the words that were once used in the legal definition of.. Torts in the Netherlands. One word that was used before was "Onwetmatig" which translates to "unlawfully". In essence what the Dutch word comes down to is that the act must be committed without basis in the law, something that is written down over here. Nowadays we use "Onrechtmatig" which I'd describe as "Without right". This means that the act must be committed without right. A right can exist without having been codified into law.

The point is simply that some terms are far, far broader than others and there's a large risk of employing a broader (or less broad) term. Which can radically change under what circumstances you violate (or have to apply) article X or Y. In essence the translation could open the article up to interpretation that is in no way, shape, or form doable in the Netherlands simply because of a bad translation.

But heck, English is the language of this forum so I might as well try. It's not like any of you read the discussions Antistia and me have so who cares if I write mistakes

Agreed, I'm more than willing to try and translate certain terms into English, but an article, no. A verdict? Maybe, depends on what part.

@ Antistia: Don't worry! I know what you mean. We'll just keep telling secrets in dutch!!!!

Inderdaad.. I mean, indeed!

Und das meinst du doch gar nicht, Rasonal. Niederländisch ist nicht zu vergleichen mit Deutsch, Niederländisch ist vielen malen schöner.
(You can't mean that Rasonal. Dutch can't be compared to German, Dutch is much more beautiful.)

by **Thelos** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:16 pm

Rasonal Dranger wrote:
Lyniath wrote:More reason to learn Dutch

Why learn the raped form of the langauge when you can learn the true one, German?

Why learn the raped form of the language when you can learn the true one, (Old) Saxon and/or Lower Saxon?

by **Rmuffn** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:17 pm

DEUTSCHLAND ÜBER ALLES!

by **Feydor** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:19 pm

Rasonal Dranger wrote:
Lyniath wrote:More reason to learn Dutch

Why learn the raped form of the langauge when you can learn the true one, German?

Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics - Page 19 1307801156001

by **Lyniath** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:25 pm

Because Germany is horrible and the language is equally so.
I went there on holiday. We left the day we arrived since te campsite lady was evil and tried to keep us prisoner, parents said Köln was dull and we spent a day at a theme park full of rude German school children.
We cheered when we crossed the border to the Netherlands :3

by **Feydor** Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:46 pm

by **Rasonal Dranger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:20 pm

Lyniath wrote:Because Germany is horrible and the language is equally so.
I went there on holiday. We left the day we arrived since te campsite lady was evil and tried to keep us prisoner, parents said Köln was dull and we spent a day at a theme park full of rude German school children.
We cheered when we crossed the border to the Netherlands :3

She just wanted to you to concentrate, nothing too bad about that..

And, Thelos- Why would we do that? See, this is the difference between improved form and raped form *nods sagely*

by **Lyniath** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:34 pm

She just wanted to you to concentrate, nothing too bad about that..

She was heavily drunk and stole my mums passport.

by **Rasonal Dranger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:38 pm

Lyniath wrote:
She just wanted to you to concentrate, nothing too bad about that..

She was heavily drunk and stole my mums passport.

She tried to save you from the journey to the sandland... Must've been a lovely woman.

by **Amaryl** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:46 pm

pff we all know Frisian is the best language there is anyway

by **Antistia** Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:56 pm

Amaryl wrote:pff we all know Frisian is the best language there is anyway

*peers towards the border between Groningen and Friesland*

Hmm....

by **Kristeas Sunbinder** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:07 pm

Frisian and German, by your powers combined I am
Tzeentch's Thread of Everchanging Topics - Page 19 Otto

by **Eowale** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:09 pm

Antistia wrote:
It would lose the nuance entirely. The words of those articles have been chosen carefully. Would I have translated to English part of the meaning would have been lost. It's also not like anyone's forcing you to read it so don't cry. Go ahead with quoting Swedish stuff though, completely fine with that.

There are probably english words for the dutch words that are "oh-so-carefully" thought out. No, you're not forcing me to read it. But, Im trying to understand what you're discussing when you're quoting a 500 letter paragraph.

And no, Im not going to quote Swedish stuff. Why? It's a english speaking forum and I respect the policy of using English in the posts. I keep my Swedish talk to a private chat, so why can't you do the same when I take the trouble of translating from Swedish --> English? It would only be proper manners, no?

by **Lyniath** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:19 pm

Rasonal Dranger wrote:
Lyniath wrote:
She just wanted to you to concentrate, nothing too bad about that..

She was heavily drunk and stole my mums passport.

She tried to save you from the journey to the sandland... Must've been a lovely woman.

You're strange.

by **Rasonal Dranger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:38 pm

Lyniath wrote:
Rasonal Dranger wrote:
Lyniath wrote:
She just wanted to you to concentrate, nothing too bad about that..

She was heavily drunk and stole my mums passport.

She tried to save you from the journey to the sandland... Must've been a lovely woman.

You're strange.

Is it because I am a Jew...?

by **Lyniath** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:41 pm

by **Antistia** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:43 pm

There are probably english words for the dutch words that are "oh-so-carefully" thought out.

Every text, when translated, loses nuance in my opinion. And no, the chance of misinterpretation becomes huge, not to mention that I will already have interpreted the text in my translation. This is purely looking at word choice (which may not be optimal as my English vocabulary is not all encompassing). Combine that then with the fact that a misplaced comma can lead to wholly different interpretations of a text, and with the fact that further grammar used can, in my opinion, also influence interpretations. Doing this leads to a conclusion that the chance of the nuance disappearing from an article of law, if translated, is immense.
Before you know it someone will be employing an interpretation that may not be possible with the original Dutch text. This makes his or her contribution to the discussion nice, but fruitless as it really has no basis in legal reality as it is in the Netherlands (Which was a core part of the discussion).

You see, the legislator goes through quite a bit of pain when choosing words. I do not have the pretension that I am able to do the same when translating an article to English. I wish I could do that, but alas, my English is not perfect.

Sure, I could tell you the essence of an article but that would be my interpretation of the article. Which is merely how I interpret it and might be very different from how another person would see it. Thus making it no longer the article, but just what I suppose the article means. Combine that with the fact that there are more ways of interpreting something that merely grammatical and you'll see that my explanation of what I deem to be the essence would not help you join in the discussion on a fair and individual basis. For your understanding of the article would stem from my opinion, not what the article 'actually' (mind you, interpretation, which means there can be multiple opinions about what an article 'actually' says) says.

And no, Im not going to quote Swedish stuff. Why? It's a english speaking forum and I respect the policy of using English in the posts. I keep my Swedish talk to a private chat, so why can't you do the same when I take the trouble of translating from Swedish --> English? It would only be proper manners, no?

I would rather have one know nothing of a thing, than to know about it in an incorrect manner.

by **Rasonal Dranger** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:49 pm

Lyniath wrote:No.

Atleast don't lie...

by **Lyniath** Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:50 pm

I'm probably the only person in my school who doesnt use the word jew as an insult, so no, I'm not lying.

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