'Current State of DB' - solutions?

Destiny wrote:

Baròth / Olian wrote:One thing I've always thought that should've been done is specific times for RP at different RP spots, like on Sundays at 16:00 server time, people gather in Darkshire (or any other place for that matter. ) and just RP as they like.

This is actually a very good idea... This way we would be able to actually rp in all of the hubs around Stormwind, Ironforge and wherever..

I agree. This could work very nicely and should happen!

I think it might work if you had a nice ic reason for it. To use your example, perhaps every Sunday at 16:00, a supply caravan is sent from Stormwind to Darkshire? That way people would have an ic excuse, they could join up as guards/merchants or travellers looking for company, then spend the rest of the evening rping in Darkshire when they get there.

'Current State of DB' - solutions?

Should be

'Current State of SW' - solutions?


Anyways. Some good suggestions. I think it is a bit like starting in the wrong end but, meh, I can see this work.

Frostfeather wrote:'Current State of DB' - solutions?

Should be

'Current State of SW' - solutions?

No, because it applies to Kalimdor, too. Kalimdor is worse than SW atm. Sure, we can still get RP over there by OOCly arranging RP between people and running isolated plots with our own guilds, but it's definitely not flourishing--there isn't a shred of random RP, let alone a proper hub with which to find random RP. Only times in recent months it was flourishing was during the cultist campaign and, to a lesser degree, the Path of Conquest campaign.

Drustai wrote:

Frostfeather wrote:'Current State of DB' - solutions?

Should be

'Current State of SW' - solutions?

No, because it applies to Kalimdor, too. Kalimdor is worse than SW atm. Sure, we can still get RP over there by OOCly arranging RP between people and running isolated plots with our own guilds, but it's definitely not flourishing--there isn't a shred of random RP, let alone a proper hub with which to find random RP. Only times in recent months it was flourishing was during the cultist campaign and, to a lesser degree, the Path of Conquest campaign.

That is of course if we by RP mean events and campaigns... I like to state that I've been asking around in NG gchat about this and most seems to enjoy the current RP situation. Just putting it out there so people understand that not all players are totally miserable. And I don't get the hate towards RP within the guild. For me it is the most rewarding one. Your characters know each other, they have a common history. Sure we could do more for the community, I bet we all could. It ultimately comes down to time I guess. I like to think that I am "serving" the community when I devote my time to NG. *shrug* I still see guilds as important parts of the community.

For me it is every players responsibility to make a character that they find so entertaining to play that they want to do it no matter what. Expecting to be spoon fed RP is missing the whole point.

Hubs and events are good things but if your character are relying on them to exist then you are doing it wrong.

Frostfeather wrote:

Drustai wrote:

Frostfeather wrote:'Current State of DB' - solutions?

Should be

'Current State of SW' - solutions?

No, because it applies to Kalimdor, too. Kalimdor is worse than SW atm. Sure, we can still get RP over there by OOCly arranging RP between people and running isolated plots with our own guilds, but it's definitely not flourishing--there isn't a shred of random RP, let alone a proper hub with which to find random RP. Only times in recent months it was flourishing was during the cultist campaign and, to a lesser degree, the Path of Conquest campaign.

That is of course if we by RP mean events and campaigns... I like to state that I've been asking around in NG gchat about this and most seems to enjoy the current RP situation. Just putting it out there so people understand that not all players are totally miserable. And I don't get the hate towards RP within the guild. For me it is the most rewarding one. Your characters know each other, they have a common history. Sure we could do more for the community, I bet we all could. It ultimately comes down to time I guess. I like to think that I am "serving" the community when I devote my time to NG. *shrug* I still see guilds as important parts of the community.

For me it is every players responsibility to make a character that they find so entertaining to play that they want to do it no matter what. Expecting to be spoon fed RP is missing the whole point.

Hubs and events are good things but if your character are relying on them to exist then you are doing it wrong.

I never said I hate guild RP. Far from it, most of my char's development has been the result of guild RP.

What I think is bad is when all your RP is guild RP. Not only does this limit your own exposure, but it also results in a smaller community overall. Big guilds can afford to isolate themselves, but smaller guilds and individual players can't. Thus the big guild might survive, but the overall RP community takes a hit. This will, in the long run, hurt the big guild, too, as there will be a smaller pool of newer players wanting to get involved if they don't witness any RP actually going on.

There needs to be a balance. Guild RP and random RP. Random RP is essential for showing the wider RP community that RP is flourishing, thus encouraging newer players to join in as well as allowing players to branch out and meet new faces.

In other words: Natures Grasp RP might be doing well, but Kalimdor RP is not. Natures Grasp is not the only Kalimdor guild, it is simply the largest one. But other Kalimdor guilds include Winterblades, Moonhunters, Ere Argus, and we've had occasional small startup guilds that have since failed. There have also been worgen guilds in the past and present that might have been interested in RPing in Kalimdor but have avoided it due to the lack of random RP.

People are currently encouraged to take their night elves/draenei/worgen to Stormwind, or discouraged from rolling those races at all. It is a cycle. Activity breeds activity, inactivity breeds inactivity.

At the very least, we need monthly events that are open to a good amount of the community. If we can't get the Circle back, at the very least we need those -jobs- to come back. The Circle required each Elder to host an event pertaining to their 'field' each month. Like the sermons and so on. Restarting things like that would be a great start to breathing life into the overall Kalimdor community.


Again... I don't have a problem with guild RP at all. But if you focus on guild RP at the exclusion of all else, you'll soon find that guild RP is the only thing you have left. The wider community needs love, too. We're all in this together.

It's just like, you don't always want to spend 24/7 with your work colleagues. Also, some guilds rely on other roleplayers/guilds to function. Look at the Stormwind Regiment for example.

"Hubs and events are good things but if your character are relying on them to exist then you are doing it wrong." - Hubs and events are a solution to the problem of lack of random roleplay. So you truely believe we are doing something wrong because we are not content with inner-guild roleplay 24/7? How is wanting to look for random roleplay but being unable to find it "Expecting to be spoon fed RP" too?

How is being a guild hermit going to fix random roleplay occurrence?

Personally I believe something needs to be done. Anything.

I think change is needed on a large scale. Something that can be talked about, easily be a part of, spur on new ideas and pick up interest. Change will get people logging back in or returning to DB. People won't stop doing what they are comfortable with if it works for them, we need to present something that is not such a risk on their part and instantly rewarding.

Unfortunately, RP hubs don't make IC sense. I am not surprised I hear people complaining about Stormwind being the RP hub, because if you are from the Three Hammers, Natures Grasp, or any other non-human Guild, it doesn't make sense for you to be there all the time. Similarly, who can imagine the Disciples moving far from the Cathedral, or the Stormwind Regiment moving its base to Ironforge?

I think the answer lies in events, not hubs, and that doesn't necessarily mean an event that lasts a couple of hours and ends. Events can be low key affairs that last for several days, and serve to make a temporary hub. For instance, there might be a week-long festival of the arts in Darnassus, with a few key sub-events but mainly it would give everyone an excuse to head to Darnassus for a week. It's a similar idea to our military campaigns, where there's plenty of RP in between battles.

I believe it is also important to remember that new blood is always needed. We will only get new roleplayers coming on board when our RP is taking place somewhere they can see it. For that reason, I think the person who mentioned Goldshire was right. I don't think we should base ourselves there full time, but it's a good place to get RP noticed.

By the way, I'm not sure what Gen's point about the Disciples was.

Your last point really interests me. I think everyone would argue they're willing to play high stakes and take risks but subconciously always expect to win and won't allow for any other outcome. The Disciples of Light have to be the best example of this. It's an inbedded resistance to change.

In the long term, of course we expect to win because that fits with the overall game storyline. It doesn't make sense within the game context for cultists to take full control of Stormwind, for instance. However, there are plenty of examples of the Disciples suffering setbacks when we lose individual encounters. As far as I am concerned, there are only three things that are not open for negotiation as far as the Disciples are concerned.

1. The result of any event should make sense within the overall world storyline, e.g. no permanent death for the King or Stormwind getting completely wiped off the face of the map.

2. The result of any event should not fundamentally change the nature of the Disciples of Light, e.g. the Disciples shouldn't end up embracing the Shadow and being banned from Stormwind.

3. No permanent death or disability for any individual who doesn't want it.

I don't think I know of any guild that are discouraging members from random or inter guild RP. Players do generally do what is most fun for them though. So to me the solution is more about trying to make players wanting to play with you than to scold them for not doing so. Negativity breeds negativity.


What is preventing you from looking for random RP now? Why are you not trying to get something going yourself? AFAIK there still are bars, and events to meet up. Why aren't those working?

Every time I've had problems with this I've had a problem with my character. RPed into a corner, lack of development made it go stale and so on. Once my character was fixed/retconned or developed and I enjoyed playing it, I magically managed to find RP again. Not sure it is this way for everyone but at least it is for me.

I guess what I'm really questioning is:

Would more hubs and events really make a difference and not just be more of the same? AFAIK there still are bars open and campaigns going.

Firstly I disagree with the premise that RP hubs don't make any sense and here is why. There is a reason for anyone to be anywhere.

The Three Hammers could move there as a part of their larger self. For instance I doubt they'd say that their ~300 odd character membership represents them in their entiriry from an IC point of view. Therefore what is stopping them RPing in Stormwind on a day to day basis as a diplomatic mission there? Or indeed as part of theri ongoing recruitment in the Dwarven Disctrict?

Natugres Grasp similarly could be there in an attempt to recover their 'fallen brethren', Kaldorei who have lost their way in their view and spend time with humans rather than their own people. I'm potentially misrepresenting NG political agenda, I know. But from what my sister has told me this could certainly be said for the Winterblades.

The Disciples leaving the Cathedral as players but leaving their NPC roots their as administration is certainly possible. Secondly religious Orders very, very rarely stick to 'home turf' so to speak. The Templars as a military body had little to do with Rome in a physical sense. They were elsewhere, leaving only an administrative body in proximity to Vatican Hill.

The Stormwind Regiment, if it is indeed a regiment and not a 'home guard' has no more reason to be in Stormwind than anywhere else. The Coldstream Guard have -no- barracks in Coldstream itself. An isolated and very particular example but one that's nearly universally true for standing military units. The Americans have military bases full of their troops in several allied countries, famously the United Kingdom, Germany, and Saudi Arabia. Britain to this day has soldiers stationed all over Germany. There is not a -single- reason why after a year in Stormwind they would not be redeployed to Ironforge.


As to using the DoL as an example of a guild deeply opposed to change I referance your reaction to the proposed famine/riot/revolution project. You stated quite plainly that you would not take part as a guild (i.e. not acknowledge it as occuring IC) if you would be forced to make a moral choice between supporting the King's forces or the common people of Stormwind. Because you wanted to be everything to every man. Absolutely loyal to the King, but also protecting the people.

If that is not resistance to change, or a resistance to taking risks then I don't know what is.

Frostfeather wrote:I don't think I know of any guild that are discouraging members from random or inter guild RP. Players do generally do what is most fun for them though. So to me the solution is more about trying to make players wanting to play with you than to scold them for not doing so. Negativity breeds negativity.

Read what I said. It is not a guild that discourages it, it is the -lack of activity- that does. With the rare exception of catching a couple elves RPing in the Temple of the Moon, I have yet to see any random RP in Darnassus in months. When the capital of the night elves is utterly dead, no one is going to want to roll a night elf for RP. If they do, they'll inevitably take that night elf to Stormwind instead.

If your RP always amounts to "hey X, want to RP?" in whisper or guild chat, then that's proof your RP isn't active enough. You should never have to arrange RP through OOC channels to get it.

What is preventing you from looking for random RP now? Why are you not trying to get something going yourself? AFAIK there still are bars, and events to meet up. Why aren't those working?

Don't make assumptions. I look for, and get, random RP all the time, and frequently RP every single day. It is the primary thing I do with my time--I've never even set foot in a Cata heroic or raid.

Here's the problem: 99% of that random RP is in Stormwind, not Kalimdor. Because Stormwind has random RP, Kalimdor does not.

Every time I've had problems with this I've had a problem with my character. RPed into a corner, lack of development made it go stale and so on. Once my character was fixed/retconned or developed and I enjoyed playing it, I magically managed to find RP again. Not sure it is this way for everyone but at least it is for me.

Again, you are making this assumption that I am not getting RP and that is why I am saying what I am. That is not the case at all. I am getting plenty of RP. The problem is that almost none of that RP is in Kalimdor, because Kalimdor is dead.

Would more hubs and events really make a difference and not just be more of the same? AFAIK there still are bars open and campaigns going.

Yeah. Bars, campaigns, and events in Eastern Kingdoms. Not Kalimdor. And even then, as evidenced by this thread and people who RP in Stormwind, the random RP is still fairly low atm.

More events always make a difference. Unless you are RPing 24/7/365, you should always be endeavoring to build more RP, not just sit back and say "everything's perfectly fine". Because things are never perfectly fine. Even if you think things aren't as bad as they are, that doesn't mean you should stop trying to make it better. We should always be striving to make things better, not just accept the status quo.

I for one am tired of spending all of my time RPing in Stormwind. The cultist campaign and the Path of Conquest campaign were the best periods of time for Kalimdor RP in recent memory, and I'd really like to see that again.

§1:"'Current State of DB' - solutions?". Would be more proper with adding "alliance side" somewhere in that, since that is what is being discussed.

§2: For those that are looking for random RP. As soon as you point out a RP hub, creating events and things like that, the RP becomes semi-random. One is acctually spoonfeeding RP to people.

§3: Of course it is hard to find random RP since some people are afraid to just start something up completely random. But second reason for it to be so hard is the amount of non RP'ers you have around you at any given time. Blame Blizzard and ourselves for not reporting enough. Or just blame Blizzard.

§4: All RP'ers do not wish to take part of this forum due to different reasons. Are they then to be excluded completely from the RP going on? Creating RP hubs is also trying to force people in a certain kind of RP, or can be seen as such atleast. Keep that in mind please.

These where just some thoughts I had after reading through this. Rather tired aswell, so probably came out sounding more harsh than intended.

My post was not intended to be about you Drustai. xD

Well I will just comment a bit:
I don't want to rp in SW for extended periods of time. Why else do you think I'm not there already? I like being in Kalimdor even as it is now. And Kalimdor does get fun rp too once in a while, like when me showing EotDR around Darnassus, thinking they were good folk, and some days later rping with Shae when we run into them again (randomly!), only this time they've been up to no good.

I also think it does enrich the server a bit, not having everyone in one place. For example, the mentioned EotDR visit to Darnassus. I recall reading them saying something about being sad about how they met so few elves on their stay. Well, at least they met -some-. If elves were in Stormwind.. They wouldn't have met anyone. So I personally think it's nice you can expect some (even if not much) RP outside such a small area as well, if you fancy a change of scenery. I also have really fond memories of when the Blazing Shields went to Ashenvale for some time (though it was a while ago).
And how attractive do you think DB would be for potential new players who say, wanted to rp in IF or Darnassus when all rp is in SW? They probably would just seek other servers.

I will also say when me, Exa & co visited SW on our travels, I really was positively surprised by the huge amounts of RP by my standards (I don't know if Exa pre-arranged some of it..). As someone who rps in Kalimdor, I really have a hard time acknowledging SW even has a big issue as it has now.

Having everyone in one place is a total waste of the amount of space we have available , tbh.

With the amount of RPers we have it is the only way right now to keep people within a few zones.

maybe their farts smell really really bad
edit: oh gawd wrong thread

Feydor wrote:maybe their farts smell really really bad
edit: oh gawd wrong thread

rofl

The only solution is to log in and RP. Doen't matter if you want to do this through an event, through just doing something random or by OOC contacting someone, it doesnt really matter. Just get out there and play, and be open to other players.

Also, you think you bitches have it hard? Delidah's currently residing in shatt. Havn't seen a single rolplayer there ever, with the exception of people who knew Deli was there (OOC or IC).

Frostfeather wrote:My post was not intended to be about you Drustai. xD

My mistake, then.

So we've established Horde and Kalimdor roleplayers don't care much for this as it doesn't effect them. That doesn't mean we shouldn't continue with the idea of a hub as a possibility along with weekly server wide events.

But stormwind is already a hubb! I'm confused!

Delidah / Scuzy wrote:But stormwind is already a hubb! I'm confused!

True, but the areas around it aren't and it could do with a bit of promoting as one. That is if we all do decide to carry on using Stormwind that is. I'm growing to the idea of Ironforge.

Boo!

Drustai and I are 'Kalimdor community', and we support this idea!